'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Solar » Wed Oct 05, 2016 6:52 pm

Yes, and to further:

One of the interesting features of the Sun & Heliosphere are “Co-rotating Interaction Regions” (CIR’s) or counter-streaming electrons heading sun-ward:

… the transition through the boundary between the two regions that tends to cause the most dramatic effects…

This boundary - where the flow speed and magnetic field direction both change abruptly - is known as a "corotating interaction region" or CIR. When Earth encounters a CIR, as it did on Monday night, the "shock" of the transition from one region to the other stirs up the magnetic field around the planet, causing it to fluctuate, sometimes in unpredictable ways. This can dump a significant amount of energy into Earth's magnetosphere, which can result in strong geomagnetic storms. – The Weather Network


Apparently tracked CIR’s were caught interacting with 67p as well (four times):

Four corotating interaction regions (CIRs), where the first event has possibly merged with a coronal mass ejection, are traced from Earth via Mars (using Mars Express and Mars Atmosphere and Volatile EvolutioN mission) to comet 67P from October to December 2014. – Solar wind interaction with comet 67P: Impacts of corotating interaction regions


You have to wonder if these (CIR) counter-streaming electrons might be responsible for some of the unexpected flare-ups while comets heading back out of the solar system.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby seasmith » Tue Oct 18, 2016 8:49 am

Researchers Predict Possible Birthplace of Comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko

[img]Your images may only be up to 600 pixels high.
Your images may only be up to 800 pixels wide.[/img]

“We performed a backward integration for 50 million years of 67/P (499 clones plus the nominal orbit) considering only gravitational forces from all the Solar System’s planets (apart from Mercury, whose mass was added to the Sun) plus gravitational perturbations of Vesta and Ceres.”

http://www.sci-news.com/space/birthplac ... 04282.html
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Metryq » Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:36 am

That's a riot, Seasmith! Does the backward integration explain where all the observed ice came from, or when the two lobes of 67P gently collided and fused together?
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:31 pm


HYDRO-CARBON LAKE
found on 67P
17 November 2016
As Rosetta's comet approached its most active period last year, the spacecraft spotted carbon dioxide ice – never before seen on a comet – followed by the emergence of two unusually large patches of water ice.

http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/58575-icy-su ... a-s-comet/

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/e ... ce.aag3161
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Metryq » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:21 am

(double post)

Is that a forum bug, or am I doing something wrong?
Last edited by Metryq on Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby Metryq » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:21 am

Wait a minute—are these "icy" patches confirmed, or merely assumed from bright spots?
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby The Great Dog » Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:03 am

You have to wonder if these (CIR) counter-streaming electrons might be responsible for some of the unexpected flare-ups while comets heading back out of the solar system.


It is also possible that the cometary nucleus retains residual charge.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG1T_U2awwQ

Notice how there are flashes through the block after it is discharged. According to Bert Hickman, his blocks can "bite" for a few minutes. When they're picked-up the electric charge flow is attracted to fingers and some residual sparks can result. Scaled-up to the Solar System, after a comet has rounded the Sun it might continue to hold on to its accumulated charge for weeks or months. When it encounters Jupiter's magnetosphere, it could become destabilized.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:02 am

Rosetta's Final Report
15 Dec 2016

Double Focussing Mass Spectrometer (DFMS) ...measured an increase in the surrounding gas pressure by more than a factor of 100 as the spacecraft neared the surface. ...

Temperature...rose...haven't figured out yet if that is due to the angle of the Sun changing, or if we were being heated by the nucleus as it filled more and more of the sky. ...

Alice Instrument... showed a steady increase in the UV flux during the descent. ... [to be expected from a decomposing material?]

RPC-LAP and RPC-MIP both reported very low plasma densities through the descent, though slowly and evenly increasing, similar to that seen by ROSINA-COPS for neutral gas. However, the plasma reached a broad peak of up to about 100–150 cm-3 (preliminary measurement) at about 2 km from the surface, before dropping off again. This is as expected for a plasma originating from the neutral gas released by the comet: its density must be low at the surface since the molecules found there have just left the nucleus and have not had any time to become ionized...

GIDA Dust instrument ... "During the final descent, the environment was like a clean room!" remarked GIADA Principal Investigator, ...

COSIMA Ion count>>>

Image

"Data from this period will eventually be made available in our archives in the same way as all Rosetta data."


http://sci.esa.int/rosetta/58636-rosett ... o-a-comet/
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Mar 21, 2017 10:48 am

Image
OSIRIS NAC image of the Aswan cliff taken on 26 December 2015 at 77.05 km far from the 67P nucleus. The spatial scale of the image is 1.41 m/pixel. The white arrow shows the bright Aswan cliff with the water ice exposed. Credit: ESA/Rosetta/MPS for OSIRIS Team MPS/UPD/LAM/IAA/SSO/INTA/UPM/DASP/ID

Read more at: https://phys.org/news/2017-03-rosetta-c ... e.html#jCp

It looks white, so it must be ice? I cant find the original image data to find which filters were used, could be IR so seeing a warmer area, could be near-UV too. But no, its pristine ice just under the dusty surface. 67p will always be a dusty ice ball.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby comingfrom » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:43 pm

Thanks for that, Gary.

It looks reminiscent of the bright spots on Ceres.

And why would ice appear only in this one spot on a cliff escarpment?
Some rock fell off and exposed it?
Is that what they want us to believe?

Escarpments are where the charge comes out. In fact the escarpments are formed by charge, when it evacuates material from the comet.
So this patch is probably a hot spot of charge. The remnant of where a jet was coming out when it was closer to the Sun.

I notice scallop shapes around the scallop shape that contains the bright spot, freshly formed in the surface dust.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby D_Archer » Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:01 am

comingfrom wrote:Thanks for that, Gary.

It looks reminiscent of the bright spots on Ceres.

And why would ice appear only in this one spot on a cliff escarpment?
Some rock fell off and exposed it?
Is that what they want us to believe?

Escarpments are where the charge comes out. In fact the escarpments are formed by charge, when it evacuates material from the comet.
So this patch is probably a hot spot of charge. The remnant of where a jet was coming out when it was closer to the Sun.

I notice scallop shapes around the scallop shape that contains the bright spot, freshly formed in the surface dust.
~Paul


Yes, this is the correct reading, and for the bright spot on Ceres it must be the same process, their camera's detect it but they will not see it for what it is, they doctored the close up images of the bright spots in occator crater to make it look like something is draped on the surface.

Regards,
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby LaSuisse1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:38 am

I find that the previous comments regarding this mission are somewhat lacking in veracity/ knowledge. Why would the mission scientists need to 'doctor' images? What would this achieve? This is a very strange mindset.
The reason that the bright spots are interpreted as ice is due to the fact that every bright spot investigated by the instruments has turned out to be ice. This is hardly news at comets. Have we already forgotten that the impact at Tempel 1 excavated several thousand tonnes of H2O ice, as seen by various spacecraft? And the veritable 'snowstorm' around Hartley 2, which featured prominently in news reports a few years ago? These were not guessed to be ice. It was spectroscopically resolved as being ice. Ice has been seen numerous times on 67P, including CO2 ice. People don't make this up for fun, you know.
I would suggest that the posters of the previous comments try searching the scientific literature, on both 67P and Ceres, before making such ill informed posts on such matters in future. If they would like references to the findings to back up what I have said, I would be happy to provide them. If, however, they believe that the whole of the cometary science community is part of some giant conspiracy to cover up a crazy hypothesis, that I hadn't heard of until a few days ago, then I suppose that I would be wasting my time providing such references. We all might as well believe that the moon is made of Swiss cheese, and NASA are covering up that fact. Makes about as much sense.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby flyingcloud » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:53 am

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-unique-co ... menko.html

These cliff collapses and various surface changes should be brimming with evidence.

https://phys.org/news/2017-03-rosetta-c ... slide.html
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby LaSuisse1 » Thu Mar 23, 2017 4:15 am

flyingcloud wrote:These cliff collapses and various surface changes should be brimming with evidence.


Indeed, they are, and are subjects of two papers, one of which is free access. There are older papers that have looked at the bright debris at the foot of cliffs, and have spectroscopically identified them as being ice. I am not sure what people think they could possibly be other than ice.
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:04 am

LaSuisse1:

I find that the previous comments regarding this mission are somewhat lacking in veracity/ knowledge.


Yes, you may be correct, so I will try to rectify the situation by learning what I can from the info available on the 'Net.

Detection of exposed H2O ice on the nucleus of comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko
as observed by Rosetta OSIRIS and VIRTIS instruments
Abstract

Context. Since the orbital insertion of the Rosetta spacecraft, comet 67P/Churyumov-Gerasimenko (67P) has been mapped by OSIRIS camera and VIRTIS spectro-imager, producing a huge quantity of images and spectra of the comet’s nucleus.

Aims. The aim of this work is to search for the presence of H2O on the nucleus which, in general, appears very dark and rich in dehydrated organic material. After selecting images of the bright spots which could be good candidates to search for H2O ice, taken at high resolution by OSIRIS, we check for spectral cubes of the selected coordinates to identify these spots observed by VIRTIS.

Methods. The selected OSIRIS images were processed with the OSIRIS standard pipeline and corrected for the illumination conditions for each pixel using the Lommel-Seeliger disk law. The spots with higher I/F were selected and then analysed spectrophotometrically and compared with the surrounding area. We selected 13 spots as good targets to be analysed by VIRTIS to search for the 2 μm absorption band of water ice in the VIRTIS spectral cubes.

Results. Out of the 13 selected bright spots, eight of them present positive H2O ice detection on the VIRTIS data. A spectral analysis was performed and the approximate temperature of each spot was computed. The H2O ice content was confirmed by modeling the spectra with mixing (areal and intimate) of H2O ice and dark terrain, using Hapke’s radiative transfer modeling. We also present a detailed analysis of the detected spots.


http://www.aanda.org/articles/aa/abs/20 ... 64-16.html

Well, that sounds straight forward enough, but I will have to learn about the the Lommel-Seeliger Law, Hapke radiative transfer theory, and also the spectra of the illumination source at 67P, and the instruments and filters employed. I'm always willing to learn, this might take a while to get through, or maybe I should just trust the experts?

Lommel-Seeliger Law
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/2005JRASC..99...92F
Hapke radiative transfer
https://www.science.gov/topicpages/h/ha ... nsfer.html
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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