'Welease Wosetta!'

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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viscount aero
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by viscount aero » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:11 am

Steve Smith wrote:I speculated that it looked like a piece of slag from a blast furnace. It is strange that 11 days have gone by without any new images. I remember when Spirit and Opportunity landed on Mars, there were dozens of new images every day. It makes me wonder if the mission team is sitting around a conference table trying to figure out how to explain what they're seeing:

"Damn, Bill, this thing doesn't look like a snowball to me!"

"Well, Bob, what if we say that the snow is really hard ice deep beneath a rocky shell that's accreted over 10 billion years?"

"Hmm..."
That is exactly what they're doing.

To add, images of comets in general are not new. All of them ever imaged at close range have looked like rocks, slag-like. So I can't see how these scientists are baffled over this comet's appearance.

As counterpoint, they may be "baffled" over the physical structure of the comet, that it looks mushroom-like. They're probably trying to come up with an official theory for how the comet either "merged" with another comet or how it was eroded (etched) into its present form. Either way they cannot explain it using their prior ideas. Snowballs do not merge in space. And etching away into the present form isn't on their radar of thought.

Whatever they come up with must involve an obligatory "impact event." Everything is an "impact event".

They're also going to continue being baffled when they fail to find any surface "vents" or sites of eruption of volatiles. There is so much that they will not be able to explain with their snowball and venting theory that it will be entertaining to watch this play out.
Last edited by viscount aero on Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:47 am, edited 3 times in total.

Steve Smith
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Steve Smith » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:36 am

IMO, the best view yet and it's 11 days old.

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... gust_b.jpg

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by viscount aero » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:49 am

Steve Smith wrote:IMO, the best view yet and it's 11 days old.

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... gust_b.jpg
They cannot rationalize anymore that comets are snowballs when this is clearly a rocky cliff-like structure. Any geologist would say it's a rock upon looking at it. It is even more damning considering that the cometary body has been obviously eroded by some means. No matter what the process of erosion was it reveals rock capped with what looks like clay or regolith. Ice and snow have nothing to do with this image.

antosarai
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by antosarai » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:53 am


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viscount aero
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by viscount aero » Mon Aug 18, 2014 9:58 am

antosarai wrote:Daily images at
http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/
The orbital insertion video is fascinating to watch and consider:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf1zsACcXc4

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Steve Smith » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:04 am

Thanks for Emily (I assume) Lakdawalla's daily images page. The images are lacking resolution, though. They've still only released navcam images -- very disappointing. Where are those 2 centimeter per pixel images?

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Steve Smith » Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:06 am

Thanks. That explains it. No narrow angle camera images until after September 3.

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Zyxzevn
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Tue Aug 19, 2014 3:43 pm

Steve Smith wrote:IMO, the best view yet and it's 11 days old.

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... gust_b.jpg

Interesting features in the image:
1) soft areas. Look like dust/sand/snow.
2) weathered areas. Especially in the lower areas. Look like rock. Vertical stripes and some horizontal layers.
3) loose pieces of material on top part and on low area.
4) crater on bottom right
5) standing spikes of rock/ice

It is sadly only black and white picture, so we can't tell what substances there might be.

It might indeed be that a bit of the rock is made of ice, but looking at the structure I suspect it contains mostly solid rock. The water that they claim to detect now (20 aug) might be from the soft areas.

If this structure was built from crystallization of water and dust, I would suspect it filled with all kinds of spikes, with snow in-between. Ever seen the meteorite in Armageddon?
If it is full of holes, I would suspect some kind of sponge structure, in combination with spikes from ice.

Whatever it is, I am sure we might see something interesting.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by viscount aero » Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:11 pm

Comet scientists are always fast and loose with their claims of cometary water volatiles that are in most cases hydroxyl molecules that can form the basis for water (similar to what has been found in hydrated silicates within the Earth's mantle). That and any water is more than likely created due to the electrochemical process taking place as these molecules synthesize in the solar wind.

Although I do not absolutely possess 100% fact and truth about comets, what has been observed in previous cometary missions is nothing short of a dry asteroid body. There is virtually no ice on top of or subsurface (ie, Tempel 1).

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by 4realScience » Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:38 pm

@Steve Smith
It makes me wonder if the mission team is sitting around a conference table trying to figure out how to explain what they're seeing:

"Damn, Bill, this thing doesn't look like a snowball to me!"
Do they now have a team of monkeys working round the clock to concoct a 'dark water' theory of comets based on a hidden dynamo deep inside the nucleus?

EU Guys, here is where we can advance our influence. The Rosetta is parked at the 67P and will witness the events over the next several months as it approaches the sun, possibly including the destruction of the lander (zzzZAPPP!). Lets give the mainstreamers hell! They can't get away now! Let's talk it up with our contacts and post articles on the net. As George Patton once said of a certain battle, "Here is where we hold them by the neck... while we kick them in the ass!".

Xuxalina Rihhia
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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Xuxalina Rihhia » Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:25 pm

Get a gander of this! http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/image/1408/ro ... a_2048.jpg

It looks like a rock to me and there are no ices there.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by paladin17 » Thu Aug 21, 2014 10:40 am

So, for today the news is:
1) A new NAVCAM image.
2) An article about possible landing site (including a nice 3D animation of the comet).
3) The things' mass determination. It happens to be some 1x10^13 kg +/-10%.

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by Frantic » Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:35 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28881015

The usual baffled and awestruck comments. But below are the items they are struggling with:

Article :
Some of the craters are truly intriguing. One, located on the comet's largest lobe, has tall, thin rims. It resembles the crown-like splash-back you see when a liquid drop hits water in slow-motion....If the impactor is dense (rocky/metallic) then it likely produces a very deep, carrot-shaped cavity, largely by compacting pore space inside the comet, which then collapses to form a shallow depression on the surface.
But if the impactor were to be another low-density comet or cometary fragment then it is possible the cratering process may be more similar to rock-on-rock impacts....Another factor is cohesion. At such low-surface gravities, even very small amounts of cohesive strength (think blancmange) can support towering cliff-faces ...This may help explain the crown-like rim of that fabulous crater.
(From Viscount)
Whatever they come up with must involve an obligatory "impact event." Everything is an "impact event".
Article :
But the form that is stirring perhaps the most debate is the streaks that are apparent in 67P's narrow "neck" region....Are they a consequence of erosion, and possibly connected in some way to the boulders that clutter the neck terrain?...Or are they the result of some layering process, maybe when the body first formed and was accumulating material?

I wonder what the shape of these boulders will be, would anyone expect to see round smooth surfaces? Ice tends not to form boulders, but rather blocks like glaciers, right? At the neck it looks like the grand canyon if it were to have excavated entirely around the planet's equator.
The surface features are so diverse - and go from the very sharp to the very smooth.
Every snowflake is unique I suppose. :D
Sadly, we have not had a new picture this week from the Osiris science cameras, which see much more detail....The Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, who own the Osiris views, are keeping them under wraps for the moment.
Under wraps is an interesting choice of words...

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by viscount aero » Thu Aug 21, 2014 3:33 pm

:lol: :o :lol: :lol:
Frantic wrote:http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28881015

The usual baffled and awestruck comments. But below are the items they are struggling with:

Article :
Some of the craters are truly intriguing. One, located on the comet's largest lobe, has tall, thin rims. It resembles the crown-like splash-back you see when a liquid drop hits water in slow-motion....If the impactor is dense (rocky/metallic) then it likely produces a very deep, carrot-shaped cavity, largely by compacting pore space inside the comet, which then collapses to form a shallow depression on the surface.
But if the impactor were to be another low-density comet or cometary fragment then it is possible the cratering process may be more similar to rock-on-rock impacts....Another factor is cohesion. At such low-surface gravities, even very small amounts of cohesive strength (think blancmange) can support towering cliff-faces ...This may help explain the crown-like rim of that fabulous crater.
(From Viscount)
Whatever they come up with must involve an obligatory "impact event." Everything is an "impact event".
Article :
But the form that is stirring perhaps the most debate is the streaks that are apparent in 67P's narrow "neck" region....Are they a consequence of erosion, and possibly connected in some way to the boulders that clutter the neck terrain?...Or are they the result of some layering process, maybe when the body first formed and was accumulating material?

I wonder what the shape of these boulders will be, would anyone expect to see round smooth surfaces? Ice tends not to form boulders, but rather blocks like glaciers, right? At the neck it looks like the grand canyon if it were to have excavated entirely around the planet's equator.
The surface features are so diverse - and go from the very sharp to the very smooth.
Every snowflake is unique I suppose. :D
Sadly, we have not had a new picture this week from the Osiris science cameras, which see much more detail....The Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, who own the Osiris views, are keeping them under wraps for the moment.
Under wraps is an interesting choice of words...
:lol: :lol: :lol:

This is so full of BS I don't know where to begin!

But wait... yes I do! They're doing exactly as I said they would--like they're reading from an old movie script! For that matter any 12 year old could have written this press release. Just give them the paint by numbers template of responses. And, voila, they have a press release. What is so disturbing is that nothing challenges them. They assume immediately that the impactor was there!

And thanks, frantic, for the acknowledgments :) Everything must be an "impactor" despite the nearly zero likelihood of such things ever occurring on such a tiny object.

And their bafflement over the exposed rock "neck" section with the carved channels. They said it was from erosion!!! LOL!!! Now they will look for the leprechaun unicorn "subsurface ocean" on the comet that carved the channels! :lol: :lol: And yet the diverse terrain on such a small object--which dumbfounds them--will in actuality NOT change their theory!

They will explain it using impact events and "collisions when the two lobes merged to form the strange shape of the comet" The "merging" of the comet into one body will also account for the deep channels and everything else--even though it will actually not explain how the forms actually formed! That is the tragic hilarity to this :lol:

They will say something like this: "When the comet merged into one body from two, the stresses and torques created by this impact event created the channels and grooves on the "neck" and varied terrain. This was obviously done at the heavy bombardment phase of the primordial solar system. This also accounts for the multiple impact craters clearly visible on the surface; after all, comets are from the very early solar system as the surface of this comet truly shows as heavy bombardment. Also, the computer modeling predetermined parameters of belief we have been using has been proven correct once again as the comet has been gushing water from its unseen but subsurface ocean for weeks now. This further substantiates that Earth's oceans came from this comet."

Money well spent--pass the popcorn! More bullsh1t is on the way!

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Re: 'Welease Wosetta!'

Unread post by 4realScience » Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:39 pm

So the mass determination is in (1 x 10 ^13) and it's 3 times what they thought.

http://blogs.esa.int/rosetta/2014/08/21 ... et-67pc-g/


The density is not yet posted and the odd shape will take some extra work..
Note that the density of Earth's moon is 3.34 grams per cubic centimeter (from google)
and water ice is 0.9167 g/cm3 at 0 °C. So will 67P be more like the Moon or ice?


Here's a copy of Wikipedia parameters as of post time of this. They might edit them soon since they are different.
Physical characteristics
Dimensions 3.5×4 km (2.2×2.5 mi)
Mass 3.14±0.21×1012 kg[2][3]
Mean density
102±9 kg/m³[2]
Escape velocity
0.46 m/s (1.5 ft/s)
Rotation period
12.7 hours
Temperature −90 °C (183 K; −130 °F)

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