Climate Change

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby BullSchmutz » Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:44 pm

Science becomes a little different when you want to believe in something.
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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby MGmirkin » Wed Nov 19, 2008 9:59 am

One should generally "frame no hypotheses" ...

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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby substance » Sun Nov 23, 2008 1:07 am

MGmirkin wrote:(Is "Global Warming" the Result of Fudged Numbers?)
http://my.nowpublic.com/environment/glo ... ed-numbers

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin

Pretty well formulated, Michael. I actually thought that they exposed the Hansen guy of fraud a few months ago, didn`t they? There was some news revealing that all temp data from the US has been fudged upwards and did not reflect the real measurements.
By the way, have you seen this article in a recent issue of New Scientist "Does rainfall vary with sunspot activity?" Last week as I was sitting in some boring class, I was flipping uninterested through the latest issue of NS and when I noticed this article I was struck by it`s significance to the EU!
The streamflow of the Paraná river increased and decreased in accordance with the number of sunspots...
"There is less than a 0.01 per cent chance that this correlation is by chance," says Mauas (Physical Review Letters, vol 101, p 168501).
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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:39 am

substance wrote:Pretty well formulated, Michael. I actually thought that they exposed the Hansen guy of fraud a few months ago, didn`t they? There was some news revealing that all temp data from the US has been fudged upwards and did not reflect the real measurements.


I'd want to see some reliable sources on that 'fore going down that path. ;o] But, if you've got any reliable sources on it, I'd be interested to see.

& no, I hadn't seen the sunspot / rainfall article. Will take a look.

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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby junglelord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:14 pm

Modern "Science" is propaganda. Plain and simple.
A gravity universe.....LOL.
Global warming....LOL.
No Aether.....LOL.
UFO technology does not exist...LOL.
Magnetic Reconnection......LOL.
Bank bailouts......LOL.
The Grand Deception.
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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:54 pm

Hard to find reliable sources calling Hansen a fraudster / scammer... Plenty of less-reliable sources saying it though.

But, a couple moderately reliable sources have gone out on a limb:

(PRUDEN: The killer frost for global warming; Washington Post)
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/no ... l-warming/

Who refers back to Booker (the original article for this thread):

(The world has never seen such freezing heat)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do1610.xml

Booker also has written at least a couple other pieces:

(Stubborn glaciers fail to retreat, awkward polar bears continue to multiply )
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2008 ... o2310b.xml

(Climate change chicanery)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do1402.xml

(The catastrophe behind climate change)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do3105.xml

(Nasa is out of line on global warming)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main ... do2708.xml

In it he states that Hansen / GISS's #'s are out of line with the other 3 most reliable sources of global temperature. Hansen's numbers show an increasing upward trend. The other 3 all show a decreasing downward trend since 1998.

(I think Hansen has been [or should be] overruled, more-or-less, by the other 3 sources that appear to be in agreement. However, Hansen is still the most quoted by those promulgating GW/AGW theories.)

There's this article on American Chronicle:

(The Global Warming Scam)
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/66237

However, it seems a bit more political than scientific...

Likewise, Hennessy's View has a few topical articles on the issue of GW / AGW & Hansen, but I don't know how technically he has studied the issue (granted, the same could probably be said of some of the prior posts, being that they come from the popular press).

(Even More Bad News for Enviro-wacks)
http://hennessysview.com/2007/08/09/eve ... iro-wacks/

(Dr. James Hansen of GISS is a Liar and a Fraud)
http://hennessysview.com/2008/07/23/dr- ... d-a-fraud/

(Who Else Believes Hansen a Fraud?)
http://hennessysview.com/2008/07/24/who ... n-a-fraud/

(More on Hansen’s Fraud)
http://hennessysview.com/2008/07/27/mor ... ens-fraud/

As far as skeptics & independents go, a couple sites (McIntyre & Watts, respectively) are the forerunners:

(Climate Audit)
http://www.climateaudit.org/

(Watts Up With That?)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/

Then there's also Ross McKitrick who fits in there somewhere:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/~rmckitri/ross.html
http://www.climatechangeissues.com/file ... itrick.pdf
http://www.uoguelph.ca/%7Ermckitri/rese ... nOp-Ed.pdf

For what it's all worth...

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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby junglelord » Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:23 pm

However, it seems a bit more political than scientific...

I say its all political.
100%.

I also say there is an elephant in the room.
Pollution, deforestation, rape, pillage of natural resources, and a industrial resistance to change.

The whole global warming issue, while an important catalyst to open up our collective conscious and to wake up to the condition of the earth is well founded, but on totally false premis. The issue is not weather, its the state of the enviorment and the earth herself. She is sick, we have made her ill, extinction is our best industry.....
:shock:
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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby keeha » Wed Nov 26, 2008 11:50 am

Irrational monkeys in manpants seem to have much control of mainstream cosmology as in Wall Street Economics these days. The CO2 Global Warming meme may be another pile of crap being tossed around like so much of today's cosmology.

If we accept that it is real (those that do, do so only beacuse they accept what they are told by TV in my experience), I think almost all can agree that government response of taxation and emissions permitting does not have a hope in hell of slowing it -and that should be the bottom line.

What I find most interesting is how civilization wide denial may be a main supporting factor to this meme. The same denial that has hijacked Western Civilization for thousands of years now.

Not singling out the Abramic religions with this quote, this same hyjacking appilies to our civilization overall, in fact it may be a core human condition:

SUPPOSITIONS CONCERNING THE IDENTITY OF HERMES
In his Biographia Antiqua, Francis Barrett says of Hermes: "* * * if God ever appeared in man, he appeared in him, as is evident both from his books and his Pymander; in which works he has communicated the sum of the Abyss, and the divine knowledge to all posterity; by which he has demonstrated himself to have been not only an inspired divine, but also a deep philosopher, obtaining his wisdom from God and heavenly things, and not from man."

GODS FIRE Moses and the Management of Exodus
If the Israelites did not know that a great comet was visiting disaster upon the Earth, they would be the only people in the world from whom the knowledge was withheld. In fact, they did know. And they called it by god-names just as everybody else did in those days. But it is also true that a peculiar kind of suppression of cometary evidence is present in the Israelite record, for which there is an explanation...

But Moses probably had something special in mind, and the subsequent Judaic priesthood in their mind, in laboring against cometary (or planetary) worship. Moses wanted to root his religion in earthly phenomena to the maximum extent possible so that he could control it. And the priesthood, too, had the same motive, plus a strong desire to make ritual all-important, so that they might control the worshippers as well as the god. The transition from the charismatic religion of Moses to the ritualistic anti-charismatic religion of the body of priests can be so understood.

Moses himself could not help but feel this intense ambivalence, for of all people he could understand how the comet was wrecking the Earth. So he would not wish to make the phenomena of the skies of Exodus any conscious part, much less any identifiable part of the new religion and new god that he was building. Other religions with multiple gods, or gods and devils - and we should note that Moses would deny the existence of a devil - could handle ambivalence toward divinities much more easily than Yahwism could.

Now we are face-to-face with the phenomena of psychic repression. Yahwism sees no comet; it sees as little of the sky as possible; it allows only the fire of Yahweh to be seen. Z. Rix is "convinced that the prohibition to show an image of Yahweh is a repression, very injurious to the human mind." What begins as traumatic terror is suppressed in memory; then, rather than gradually becoming adjusted to the memory, the mind is committed to the suppression by priests and ritual. And it never can adjust to the reality of recollection, and hence never can accommodate to the reality of the present. This mental condition is bound up with the invisible god and is a large factor in the psychological operations of mosaism and Yahwism.

More recent events involing civilizational wide Thunderbolts 'god' denial:
Why The Electric Universe Matters
Although there was a resurgence of interest in Velikovsky's work in the early 1970's (beginning in 1972 with the publication of the scholarly journal, "Immanuel Velikovsky Reconsidered"), the pioneer died without his thesis having received a fair or objective hearing. Many who were inspired by Velikovsky -- including several researchers with the Thunderbolts group -- acknowledge that he was wrong on a number of points, but they insist that Velikovsky was closer to the truth than his persecutors.

Perhaps the most critical point that Velikovsky got right was his description of mankind as a race "living in amnesia". This was an issue on which Velikovsky spoke with authority -- he was a student of Freud's first pupil Wilhem Stekel, and was Israel's first practicing psychoanalyst. Of course, many psychoanalysts believe that destructive emotional patterns have their roots in past traumas. And the celestial dramas first described by Velikovsky were the most traumatic events in recorded history.


Venus isn't our twin!
Here we had two cherished beliefs being demolished at once – that something the size of a planet could be a comet, and that Venus recently had a different orbit. Velikovsky was "ruthlessly suppressed." Although later findings from space probes supported his conclusion, they made no difference to the consensus opinion.

Astronomers minimized the importance of Velikovsky's remarkable claim or simply dismissed it as a 'lucky guess', although one noted scholar acknowledged at the time that Velikovsky had a remarkable record of successful predictions and no failures. The discovery that Venus was almost red hot made it imperative for scientists to invent an explanation. The result was the "enhanced" or "runaway" greenhouse effect. Rupert Wildt originally proposed the greenhouse theory more than 60 years ago. He predicted that Venus would be warmer than the Earth by a few tens of degrees Celsius due to the trapping of infrared radiation in the planet's lower atmosphere. After the Venera and Mariner probes to Venus showed how unearthly are the temperatures there, Carl Sagan proposed the "enhanced greenhouse effect" in 1960. This was followed by a "runaway greenhouse effect" postulated by S. I. Rasool and C. de Bergh in 1970.

...Like biblical exegesis, the scripture remains untouched while the interpretation is adjusted to fit new, discordant data. And there is no more discordant astronomical data than the infernal heat of Venus.

Believing the greenhouse effect is responsible for the high temperature of Venus will ensure that any conclusions drawn will be wrong. Believing that Venus is a twin of the Earth will ensure the continuance of a fictional history of both planets.

Rapture is denial?

A denial that continues because we don't want to face the truth, and controllers can use this to their advantage to maintain power and control.

Global Warming is about denial of Cosmic Events being able to dominate earth's atmosphere out of our and our leader's control.

Global Warming is about denial of resource depletion, overpopulation, ocean acidification, habitat destruction.

Global Warming is about the controllers offering hope to their people that all will be well if you do what their experts say.

Global Warming is about powering down society (peak oil?) and concentrating control (government permits needed) without public awareness.

Global Warming is about a new source of tax revenue.

And finally: Global Warming is about an unproven theory that small changes in CO2 dominate earth's surface temperature to the near irrelevance of other factors.
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Re: The world has never seen such freezing heat

Unread postby MGmirkin » Sun Nov 30, 2008 12:43 pm

junglelord wrote:I say its all political. 100%.


Yeah, seeming that way.

junglelord wrote:I also say there is an elephant in the room. Pollution, deforestation, rape, pillage of natural resources, and a industrial resistance to change.


Yup, but a pig in lipstick and earring is still a pig. IE, it's fine and dandy to want to clean up the environment. If pol's want to clean it up, they should just clean it up, not make up this junk about an imagined "global warming" doomsday scenario to fool us into cleaning it up. "Global climate change" seems as malleable as wet clay these days (if the Earth goes into an ice age, global climate change did it; if the Earth warms up and turns into a desert, global climate change did it; if the sky suddenly turns purple and rains gumdrops, well maybe that's just an act of God, but you get the idea).

Just my 2c.
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More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby Tzunamii » Thu Dec 11, 2008 7:17 am

UN Blowback: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent Over Man-Made Global Warming Claims
Study: Half of warming due to Sun! –Sea Levels Fail to Rise? - Warming Fears in 'Dustbin of History'
Full article ---->HERE on the "U.S Senate Committee on Environment & Public Works" website.

A hint of what the upcoming report contains:

I am a skeptic…Global warming has become a new religion.” - Nobel Prize Winner for Physics, Ivar Giaever.

Since I am no longer affiliated with any organization nor receiving any funding, I can speak quite frankly….As a scientist I remain skeptical.” - Atmospheric Scientist Dr. Joanne Simpson, the first woman in the world to receive a PhD in meteorology and formerly of NASA who has authored more than 190 studies and has been called “among the most preeminent scientists of the last 100 years.”

"Warming fears are the “worst scientific scandal in the history…When people come to know what the truth is, they will feel deceived by science and scientists.” - UN IPCC Japanese Scientist Dr. Kiminori Itoh, an award-winning PhD environmental physical chemist.

The IPCC has actually become a closed circuit; it doesn’t listen to others. It doesn’t have open minds… I am really amazed that the Nobel Peace Prize has been given on scientifically incorrect conclusions by people who are not geologists,” - Indian geologist Dr. Arun D. Ahluwalia at Punjab University and a board member of the UN-supported International Year of the Planet.

The models and forecasts of the UN IPCC "are incorrect because they only are based on mathematical models and presented results at scenarios that do not include, for example, solar activity.” - Victor Manuel Velasco Herrera, a researcher at the Institute of Geophysics of the National Autonomous University of Mexico

It is a blatant lie put forth in the media that makes it seem there is only a fringe of scientists who don’t buy into anthropogenic global warming.” - U.S Government Atmospheric Scientist Stanley B. Goldenberg of the Hurricane Research Division of NOAA.

Even doubling or tripling the amount of carbon dioxide will virtually have little impact, as water vapour and water condensed on particles as clouds dominate the worldwide scene and always will.” – . Geoffrey G. Duffy, a professor in the Department of Chemical and Materials Engineering of the University of Auckland, NZ.

After reading [UN IPCC chairman] Pachauri's asinine comment [comparing skeptics to] Flat Earthers, it's hard to remain quiet.” - Climate statistician Dr. William M. Briggs, who specializes in the statistics of forecast evaluation, serves on the American Meteorological Society's Probability and Statistics Committee and is an Associate Editor of Monthly Weather Review.

For how many years must the planet cool before we begin to understand that the planet is not warming? For how many years must cooling go on?" - Geologist Dr. David Gee the chairman of the science committee of the 2008 International Geological Congress who has authored 130 plus peer reviewed papers, and is currently at Uppsala University in Sweden.

Gore prompted me to start delving into the science again and I quickly found myself solidly in the skeptic camp…Climate models can at best be useful for explaining climate changes after the fact.” - Meteorologist Hajo Smit of Holland, who reversed his belief in man-made warming to become a skeptic, is a former member of the Dutch UN IPCC committee.

Many [scientists] are now searching for a way to back out quietly (from promoting warming fears), without having their professional careers ruined.” - Atmospheric physicist James A. Peden, formerly of the Space Research and Coordination Center in Pittsburgh.

Creating an ideology pegged to carbon dioxide is a dangerous nonsense…The present alarm on climate change is an instrument of social control, a pretext for major businesses and political battle. It became an ideology, which is concerning.” - Environmental Scientist Professor Delgado Domingos of Portugal, the founder of the Numerical Weather Forecast group, has more than 150 published articles.

CO2 emissions make absolutely no difference one way or another….Every scientist knows this, but it doesn’t pay to say so…Global warming, as a political vehicle, keeps Europeans in the driver’s seat and developing nations walking barefoot.” - Dr. Takeda Kunihiko, vice-chancellor of the Institute of Science and Technology Research at Chubu University in Japan.

The [global warming] scaremongering has its justification in the fact that it is something that generates funds.” - Award-winning Paleontologist Dr. Eduardo Tonni, of the Committee for Scientific Research in Buenos Aires and head of the Paleontology Department at the University of La Plata. # #




Good to see Scientists calling shenanigans. The whole idea should be an insult to our collective intelligence.
May be a good pool of people to correspond with, with the goal of promoting EU.
Them being all Mavricky and all.
--------

On a side note, anyone else having a problem with the "View new post" option on the forum?
I've been getting an error for the last 2 days.
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Re: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby webolife » Thu Dec 11, 2008 3:31 pm

They didn't count me. :x
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby Tzunamii » Fri Dec 12, 2008 8:37 am

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Re: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:12 pm

Tzunamii wrote:Good to see Scientists calling shenanigans. The whole idea should be an insult to our collective intelligence.
May be a good pool of people to correspond with, with the goal of promoting EU.
Them being all Mavricky and all.


Actually, they seem to be the very antithesis of Mavericky... Many if not most of them appear to hold high positions in various well-respected institutions and scientific disciplines. That they disagree and apparently outnumbered the scientists who promoted AGW in the original IPCC committee should be no small laughing matter. Certainly more than the "10 scientists in dissent" offered by some AGW supporter or another. I forget who off hand.

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Re: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:45 pm

Now that I'm really looking into it, I seem to be coming across every bit of debunkery of AGW:

(How not to measure temperature, part 79 - could you, would you, with a boat?)
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/08/h ... th-a-boat/

Seriously:

Before GISS 'adjustment':
[Image]

After GISS 'adjustment':
[Image]

Comparison of before and after graphs:
[Image]

They literally 'adjust' a cooling trend into a warming trend! ;)

Regards,
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"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: More Than 650 International Scientists Dissent ...

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Fri Dec 12, 2008 1:56 pm

Scientists seem to be blowing hot and cold on this one.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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