Climate Change

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:35 pm

I thought of the suns condition lately as well. I cant answer the specifics you asked but its the same kinds of questions im thinking on myself.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:22 am

It's a bit of a stretch and a little further of in the solar system (Triton), but is something like this what you mean Plasmatic?

Stimulated desorption of atoms and molecules from bodies in the outer solar system
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=6371#p6371
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby Plasmatic » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:05 am

"Water, being dipolar, can be partly aligned by an electric field and this may be easily shown by the movement of a stream of water by an electrostatic source [163]. Very high field strengths (5 x 109 V m-1) are required to reorient water in ice such that freezing is inhibited [251], "

http://www.lsbu.ac.uk/water/magnetic.html

"Room-temperature ice is possible if the water molecules you’re freezing are submitted to a high enough electric field. Some physicists had predicted that water could be coaxed into freezing at fields around 109 V/m. The fields are thought to trigger the formation of ordered hydrogen bonding needed for crystallization. Now, for the first time, such freezing has been observed, in the lab of Heon Kang at Seoul National University in Korea, at room temperature and at a much lower field than was expected, only 106 V/m. Exploring a new freezing mechanism should lead to additional insights about ice formation in various natural settings, Kang believes (surfion@snu.ac.kr)."

http://www.aip.org/pnu/2005/split/742-1.html


It makes me think of Ice ages and the recession of them.
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby Plasmatic » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:20 am

This paper is awesome
http://www.aad.gov.au/Asset/magazine/20 ... nkages.pdf

While thunderstorms and strongly electrified
clouds are the dominant controllers of the global
atmospheric circuit, in the polar regions the
interaction of the solar wind and the Earth’s
magnetic field – the same process that leads to
the aurora (seen here over Newcomb Bay at Casey)
– also contributes to this circuit....Scientists have proposed that the global
atmospheric circuit influences cloud development by
initiating a range of microphysical processes. These
include electrical influences on the formation of
cloud aerosols in the atmosphere, which may affect
cloud lifetime, ice formation and precipitation.
"Logic is the art of non-contradictory identification"......" I am therefore Ill think"
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby StefanR » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:30 am

Scientists have proposed that the global
atmospheric circuit influences cloud development by
initiating a range of microphysical processes. These
include electrical influences on the formation of
cloud aerosols in the atmosphere, which may affect
cloud lifetime, ice formation and precipitation.


Also seen at Mars:

Planetary scientists have discovered the highest clouds above any planetary surface. They found them above Mars using the SPICAM instrument on board ESA's Mars Express spacecraft. The results are a new piece in the puzzle of how the Martian atmosphere works.
Until now, scientists had been aware only of the clouds that hug the Martian surface and lower reaches of the atmosphere. Thanks to data from the SPICAM Ultraviolet and Infrared Atmospheric Spectrometer onboard Mars Express, a fleeting layer of clouds have been discovered at an altitude between 80 and 100 kilometres. The clouds are most likely composed of carbon dioxide.
.....
In that respect, they look similar to the mesospheric clouds, also known as noctilucent clouds, on Earth. These occur at 80 kilometres altitude above our planet, where the density of the atmosphere is similar to that of Mars’ at 35 kilometres. The newly discovered Martian clouds therefore occur in a much more rarefied atmospheric location.
......
SPICAM has revealed the answer by finding a previously unknown population of minuscule dust grains above 60 kilometres in the Martian atmosphere. The grains are just one hundred nanometres across (a nanometre is one thousand-millionth of a metre).

They are likely to be the 'nucleation centres' around which crystals of carbon dioxide form to make clouds. They are either microscopic chippings from the rocks on the surface on Mars that have been blown to extreme altitudes by the winds, or they are the debris from meteors that have burnt up in the Martian atmosphere.
http://www.physorg.com/news75989971.html
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?p=7020#p7020
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby Plasmatic » Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:37 am

http://globalcircuit.phys.uh.edu/

This project makes the nearly three decades of Antarctic atmospheric electricity data available to more workers. Measurements of the vertical electric field and air-earth current density made at the Earth's surface in Antarctica have recently been shown to be of considerable interest to scientists interested in monitoring short-term Sun-Earth connections and long term climate change. Such measurements have been made off and on for more than three decades, primarily at Vostok and South Pole stations.


So they have been investigating the current in the atmosphere in specific relation to solar variability and yet theres no electricity in space?
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Re: Ice melt and electric currents

Unread postby MGmirkin » Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:24 am

Plasmatic wrote:So they have been investigating the current in the atmosphere in specific relation to solar variability and yet theres no electricity in space?


Ahh, the hypocrisy of the space age... This is the problem when the right hand doesn't know what the left is doing!

One side of science says "no currents in space" or "they don't do anything!" The other side says "but let's measure them anyway!"

I mean, hello...

Heliospheric current sheet / interplanetary magnetic field. Flux ropes, flux tubes, proton beams and strahl (electron beams) in the solar wind? The Io-Jupiter million-Ampere "flux tube(s)" circuit connecting Io to spots in the northern and southern hemispheric auroras (Europa & Ganymede are likely involved in similar interaction as they both also have auroral footprints). The "flux rope" circuit between Earth's upper atmosphere & the sun carries a 650,000 Amp current. I could probably go on... But why bother, it's all or mostly on the laundry list at the top of the EU section of the forum. ;o)

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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby StefanR » Fri Jun 27, 2008 7:05 am

North Pole Could be Ice-Free This Summer

Arctic sea ice could break apart completely at the North Pole this year, allowing ships to sail over the normally frozen top of the world.
There is no land at the North Pole, but as long as anyone has looked, it has remained a giant block of ice year-round. Scientists have been watching Arctic sea ice melt more and more each year. But each summer in recent years, the amount of ice has gotten thinner and thinner. Each winter's freeze, therefore, results in a thinner pack that, this summer, could melt altogether.
"The issue is that, for the first time that I am aware of, the North Pole is covered with extensive first-year ice," Serreze is quoted by The Independent. "I'd say it's even-odds whether the North Pole melts out."
Russia and other countries, meanwhile, have been arguing over who has rights to the region's resources, including potential oil reserves.
Several studies in recent years have predicted that the North Pole could be ice-free within a few decades. Alarm has ratcheted up every summer as the ice gets thinner and thinner. In a study released June 10, scientist said the rapid meltoff in the Arctic could threaten permafrost in continental soil elsewhere above the Arctic circle in a warm version of the snowball effect.
Last summer saw a record melt of Arctic sea ice, which shrank to more than 30 percent below its average. Around the peak of the melt, in September, air temperatures over land in the western Arctic from August to October were more than 4 degrees Fahrenheit (2 degrees Celsius) above the 1978-2006 average.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20080627/sc_livescience/northpolecouldbeicefreethissummer

But then again:

Expedition yields first evidence of explosive volcanism on Arctic seafloor

A two-week cruise on an icebreaker to the top of the world last summer gave scientists a look at the aftermath of an event once thought impossible: a violent volcanic eruption on the deep-sea floor.

In 1999, a global network of seismic instruments detected the largest swarm of earthquakes ever to occur along the planet’s system of mid-ocean ridges, where tectonic plates spread to form new ocean crust. Several aspects of the recorded vibrations suggested that the quakes were generated by volcanic activity, says Robert A. Reves-Sohn, a geophysicist at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution in Massachusetts.

The source of the quakes was the Gakkel Ridge, a mid-ocean ridge that runs along the bottom of the Arctic Ocean. Sonar scans at a stretch of the ridge about 500 kilometers from the North Pole revealed several distinctive volcanic features, says Reves-Sohn. The largest of these undersea features, which usually have flat tops scarred with prominent central craters, are about 2 kilometers across and a few hundred meters tall.

Images gathered by a remotely operated vehicle show that the ocean floor is blanketed by layers of loose volcanic ash up to 10 centimeters thick. This material is piled on top of rocks and other high-standing features on the ocean floor, a sign that the jagged, glassy particles of ash — each typically measuring no more than a couple of millimeters across — gently rained down upon the ocean floor rather than sweeping down the flanks of the undersea volcanoes, Reves-Sohn says.

He and his colleagues don’t know the full extent of the volcanic deposits, but they did find ash in all parts of the 5-by-10-kilometer area that they surveyed, they report in the June 23 Nature.

The size and shape of the larger particles hint that one of the area’s undersea volcanoes spewed 1-kilometer-tall fountains of lava during an explosive eruption. When that molten material hit the near-freezing seawater, it quickly chilled into golf-ball-size chunks and then fractured into tiny bits that rained to the seafloor, Reves-Sohn speculates. Many of the ash bits are jagged, thin, Christmas-ornament-like fragments of glass, a testament to the violence of the eruption and the bubbles contained in the molten material.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/33630/description/Under_Ice
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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby MGmirkin » Fri Jun 27, 2008 9:56 am

Grey Cloud wrote:
Faderbaby wrote:
As you head into the dark rift for galactic alignment, all solar bodies shall feel the heat from passing through this denser region and come 2012 perhaps a little more besides.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but... I *think* if you add one more comma you will have a Haiku.


I think you are both correct.


Actually, I think a haiku is 5-7-5, but who's counting? :P

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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby substance » Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:41 pm

Can someone enlighten me, what haiku means?!
StefanR, what has the volcano on the seafloor to do with global warming?
I think that even if global warming is not man-made, we still pollute the air in cities etc, there are many reasons not to use oil and fossil fuels.
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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby MGmirkin » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:45 am

substance wrote:Can someone enlighten me, what haiku means?!
StefanR, what has the volcano on the seafloor to do with global warming?
I think that even if global warming is not man-made, we still pollute the air in cities etc, there are many reasons not to use oil and fossil fuels.


(Haiku)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haiku

Oversimplified, in the English transliteration, a Haiku is a poem consisting generally of 17 syllables, usually divided into 3 lines of 5-7-5 syllables each. The last line often tends to be a summary or otherwise some way of tying the first two line together... Faux "deep thoughts."

(An electric Haiku...)
Magnetic fields,
Charged particles in circuits:
Flip sides of the coin.

(An astronomy Haiku...)
Astronomers balk,
Predictions failed yet again...
Next job at Starbucks?

(An OCD Haiku)
Michael stays up nights,
pores over press releases,
Wakes four days later...

Enjoy!
~Michael Gmirkin
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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby plasmana » Sat Jun 28, 2008 5:41 am

substance wrote:I think that even if global warming is not man-made, we still pollute the air in cities etc, there are many reasons not to use oil and fossil fuels.


CO2 is not a pollutant. The only reasons to "clean it up" is to try to stop global warming (not a valid reason in my opinion), or reduce the growth of plant life.

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast07sep_1.htm
http://www.worldclimatereport.com/index.php/2007/04/02/global-warming-and-california-agriculture/

I believe it's too premature to jump all over climate change and CO2 increase as an abberation to the normal state which must be fixed. At least consider the possibilities that they are a fix to the current abberative state, or just random changes in a variable state climate.
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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby StefanR » Sat Jun 28, 2008 2:47 pm

substance wrote:StefanR, what has the volcano on the seafloor to do with global warming?
I think that even if global warming is not man-made, we still pollute the air in cities etc, there are many reasons not to use oil and fossil fuels.

I don't think the volcanos on the arctic ocean's seafloor has very little to do directly with global swindling...sorry...warming.
But I do think it is just one of does many many factors that those fine climate consensus models don't take into account.
Also I find it funny that nowadays it's no longer global warming but global climate change, probably politically saver and easier to defend. Because changing the climate always does and always will. I agree with you that pollution and such are more of a problem, pollution like depleted uranium (talking about the army concluding something) will even last a whole lot longer :( .
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Nothing Wrong with Using Petroleum

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Jun 30, 2008 2:40 pm

- Pollution is indeed a threat, but I don't know that petroleum is the problem. EM radiation, i.e. microwaves and RF waves as from cellphones, wifi etc, appears to be the most dangerous pollution. See http://freewebs.com/emr2. The next most dangerous may be GMO crops, plastics [See http://mercola.com] used for food and beverage containers [and plastics are petroleum products], vaccines and medical drugs & treatments, and toxic food additives. Plastics, chemicals and metals etc are seriously polluting the oceans, seas and lakes. Industries in many countries are still polluting the air. War is greatly polluting the Middle East as well as the world's air, via depleted uranium etc.
- CO2 from auto exhaust etc is not a pollutant and is misnamed a greenhouse gas. I seriously doubt that any gas can trap heat like a greenhouse can. Gases aren't solid and can't hold warm air down. The warm gases would rise, allowing heat to escape. I don't think even a simple experiment has been done to prove the greenhouse gas theory. The experiment would compare the heat buildup in 2 tall tubes with open tops. One would contain normal air. The other would contain normal air plus 5 or more % of CO2. Both would be exposed to full-spectrum light that simulates sunlight, including IR and UV. Then the temperature would be measured at the bottom of each tube after several days' or weeks' exposure.
- The global warming myth was started by politicians for the purpose of genocide, or, as they say, population control. Here's a relevant link: http://larouchepub.com/eiw/public/2007/2007_10-19/2007-13/pdf/36-46_713_ainsworth.pdf. I'll post quotes on the Future of Science board. Here's the link http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=803.
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Re: Army: Sun, Not Man, Is Causing Climate Change

Unread postby electrodogg1 » Mon Jun 30, 2008 3:34 pm

Lloyd,

The so-named greenhouse gases are not theorized to work like a garden greenhouse does. The theory was supposedly proved in 1848, but there are recent papers indicating that the proof may have been wrong. The theory is that certain constituents of the atmosphere CO2, water, Methane, etc. absorb infared radiation at night as the earth cools. This warms the troposphere (8 - 12 miles up) and consequently warms the entire earth. One problem with the current "warming trend" is that troposhere temperatures are not rising as predicted.

Troposphere temperatures are measured by weather baloons. This has caused great constenation in the Global Warming Crowd. This has recently led to some Yale University researchers to invent a new way to measure the temperature in the troposphere. They are now measuring wind speed as a proxy for troposhere temperature and they now show that the temperature of the troposphere is increasing as predicted.

The motto is: If the actual temperature does not conform to the model, then quit using the actual temperature and find something that is increasing and call it temperature! :lol:
Best,

David
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