Climate Change

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

Moderators: MGmirkin, bboyer

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Fri Jun 20, 2014 5:36 pm

Sparky wrote:
Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act
.


Seems to me to be quite reasonable.
On the contrary, without defining what the "downside" is and how to remedy that with "something" that also isn't defined is in my opinion quite dangerous. It leads to people converting crops into inefficient fuel and pressure placed on poor countries to not build power stations their people desperately need.

Sparky wrote:But, I can understand the emotional pain that simple logic would make for someone who has an enormous investment in promoting their agenda without conflicting opinions being offered.
What agenda am I promoting? You mean the one whereby I believe we should be helping and saving the lives of millions of people right now rather than worry about future problems we have absolutely no way of understanding or rectifying? I had no idea that is an unreasonable desire. Also what conflicting opinion are you talking about? You haven't offered any. Apparently your comment wasn't even about CO2.

Sparky wrote:So, I take back the , "Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act."
Even though that also seems to be a quite reasonable position. But, I too am assuming that being reasonable is a part of the anti- Climate Change group. ;)
What is "anti Climate Change group? Is there a group that believes the climate can be fixed and not change?
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby kiwi » Fri Jun 20, 2014 6:57 pm

for predicting the microwave blackbody emission from the ocean surface…”


Now thats enough to arouse suspicion isnt it? .... I flicked a link to that paper to PMR ... I will post his response if I get one :)
kiwi
 
Posts: 557
Joined: Wed Jun 23, 2010 3:58 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Sparky » Sat Jun 21, 2014 6:49 am

:shock: Whoa! Aardwolf! You are over correcting! Swerving wildly from one ditch to the other! Throwing things out of your truck will not help; that is for ships that are sinking! And it appears that you are distracting yourself by flailing and dumping weight. Get control of the truck first.!!! Then unload after you have come to a safe stop and can dump your stuff with care.! You do value your stuff, don't you?

In the mean time, I will continue to examine what I said that brought on this argumentative hysteria. Maybe it was not qualifying, "the downside"...? hmmm :?
Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act.


:D
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby nick c » Sat Jun 21, 2014 7:52 am

Sparky, it seems to me that you are over complicating things. Aardwolf's point is simple. Why spend billions limiting CO2 emissions when the amount of CO2 being released is not harmful pollution (and may in fact have beneficial effects)?
It is a basic economic concept, that if resources are assigned to something useless than those resources are not available to be utilized for something else that is beneficial. It is an enormous Opportunity Cost.

So we are back to the original question...is human activity changing Earth's climate?
Suggested reading:
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/global-wa ... ignorance/
As for warming caused by mankind’s production of so-called “greenhouse gases,” Professor Nils-Axel Mörner wrote in a submission to the UK parliament on global warming:


“The driving idea is that there is a linear relationship between CO2 increase in the atmosphere and global temperature. The fact, however, is that temperature has constantly gone up and down. From 1850 to 1970, we see an almost linear relationship with Solar variability; not CO2. For the last 30 years, our data sets are so contaminated by personal interpretations and personal choices that it is almost impossible to sort up the mess in reliable and unreliable data.”
User avatar
nick c
Moderator
 
Posts: 2254
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby starbiter » Sat Jun 21, 2014 8:14 am

Can't we all just get along?

Our planet seems to be under attack by over population and the pollution people produce. Coal burning is a major factor. It produces mercury and sulfur [sulfuric acid] and other pollutants that are problematic for living creatures. Oil is also a problem. But from the EU perspective CO2 isn't a problem at all. See Ben Davidson's talk from EU 2014 please.

https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/0 ... th-eu2014/

Reducing coal burning in order to reduce CO2 might remove some of the pollutants, but it seems to be an ass backwards way of doing it. The same with oil. If we could target the true pollutants and not CO2 the results might be more helpful.

From my reading of legend there seem to be recurring catastrophes that are the cure for over population. Each catastrophe seems to be from a different cause. On some occasions a nearby nova, on others a comet interaction and others a planet interaction. For all we know the Sun might fission tomorrow.

Have a nice day.

michael
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
User avatar
starbiter
 
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Sparky » Sat Jun 21, 2014 12:05 pm

it seems to me that you are over complicating things.


How am I over complicating things? I'm not looking to educate anyone nor promote an agenda. I kept it simple with:
Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act.


In rushes the gang against climate change modification to bury me under distractions and arguments that are not reflective to my simple statement or are not timely arguments... I think that shows an over reaction..! And as a result I may have to take more of a stand against that sort of hysteria, masquerading as sober, thoughtful, or righteous science.

Michael, you are correct. ;) Watch out for the backlash! :roll:

Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act.
;)
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:48 pm

starbiter wrote:Can't we all just get along?

Our planet seems to be under attack by over population and the pollution people produce. Coal burning is a major factor. It produces mercury and sulfur [sulfuric acid] and other pollutants that are problematic for living creatures. Oil is also a problem. But from the EU perspective CO2 isn't a problem at all. See Ben Davidson's talk from EU 2014 please.

https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2014/0 ... th-eu2014/

Reducing coal burning in order to reduce CO2 might remove some of the pollutants, but it seems to be an ass backwards way of doing it. The same with oil. If we could target the true pollutants and not CO2 the results might be more helpful.

From my reading of legend there seem to be recurring catastrophes that are the cure for over population. Each catastrophe seems to be from a different cause. On some occasions a nearby nova, on others a comet interaction and others a planet interaction. For all we know the Sun might fission tomorrow.

Have a nice day.

michael
I agree that restricting pollutants like mercury and sulphur are worth pursuing where possible in addition with the safe extraction of oil. However, these are environmental issues and not related to climate change or the effect of the essential plant food CO2.
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:54 pm

Hi Aardwolf,

Couldn't agree more.
I Ching #49 The Image
Fire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTION
Thus the superior man
Sets the calender in order
And makes the seasons clear

www.EU-geology.com

http://www.michaelsteinbacher.com
User avatar
starbiter
 
Posts: 1445
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:11 am
Location: Antelope CA

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Sun Jun 22, 2014 2:11 pm

Sparky wrote:
it seems to me that you are over complicating things.


How am I over complicating things? I'm not looking to educate anyone nor promote an agenda. I kept it simple with:
Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act.


In rushes the gang against climate change modification to bury me under distractions and arguments that are not reflective to my simple statement or are not timely arguments... I think that shows an over reaction..! And as a result I may have to take more of a stand against that sort of hysteria, masquerading as sober, thoughtful, or righteous science.

Michael, you are correct. ;) Watch out for the backlash! :roll:

Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act.
;)
As all my previous questions and points appear to be unanswerable distractions why don't you just tell us what the downside of doing nothing is, and let us know what we should do to help?

Try to keep it within the framework of CO2 and climate change as due to your desire to avoid specifics I'm not certain you're even positing about this subject.
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:13 am

"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Tue Jun 24, 2014 5:38 am

And there was I, worried you were going to post an untimely distraction that was not reflective of the discussion.
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:27 am

Sparky wrote:I heard a good argument on utube: The downside of doing nothing is enormous if there is something that can be done. The upside of doing something , even if there is nothing that can help, is improvements that will benefit everyone.

Why take the chance. Let's clean up our act. ;)
Was that argument put forward by Hank Paulson? Nice bedfellow.

You have to be wary when people like the former CEO of Goldman Sachs spews out these logical fallacies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/22/opinion/sunday/lessons-for-climate-change-in-the-2008-recession.html?smid=tw-share&_r=3
HENRY M. PAULSON Jr. wrote:But we must not lose sight of the profound economic risks of doing nothing.
HENRY M. PAULSON Jr. wrote:With that experience indelibly affecting my perspective, viewing climate change in terms of risk assessment and risk management makes clear to me that taking a cautiously conservative stance — that is, waiting for more information before acting — is actually taking a very radical risk.
Follow the money.
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:50 am

As all my previous questions and points appear to be unanswerable distractions---
;)

No, just a waste of time and effort to do so.... :D
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Aardwolf » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:46 am

Sparky wrote:
As all my previous questions and points appear to be unanswerable distractions---
;)

No, just a waste of time and effort to do so.... :D
We'll never solve the worlds problems with that attitude...
Aardwolf
 
Posts: 1156
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 7:56 am

Re: Climate Change

Unread postby Sparky » Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:27 am

"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
Sparky
 
Posts: 3517
Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 2:20 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Electric Universe - Planetary Science

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron