Electric Venus

Historic planetary instability and catastrophe. Evidence for electrical scarring on planets and moons. Electrical events in today's solar system. Electric Earth.

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Aveo9
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Re: What just happened on Venus?

Unread post by Aveo9 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:23 pm

If you look at the elapsing timecode in the movie (the thing lasts a bit too long), read the arguments(?) and bendings in their "explanation", compare it to their other "examples" given and -- last but not least -- watch how it dissipates one might get the impression that this was no "artefact" of the ususal lentils -- oops -- lenses, at all.
If it's not a lense effect, then why does it only seem to happen as Venus leaves the field of view?
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seb
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Re: What just happened on Venus?

Unread post by seb » Sat Aug 28, 2010 7:09 am

And to be fair to the astronomers, if a planet threw out a flare so conspicuously they aren't going to pretend it never happened just because they don't like Velikovsky. ;)

MyndsEye
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Re: What just happened on Venus?

Unread post by MyndsEye » Sun Aug 29, 2010 12:44 pm

Sorry guys, but I dont believe it to be a CME.. though it does look like it there is an extended cut of this video that shows it panning all the way from the left side to the right side and it shows a CME-looking phenomenon shrinking into venus. The video that makes it look like a CME is only half the video.

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Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by moses » Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:58 pm

With the magnetic fields of Venus and Earth being so different why would the lightning be so similar ?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 183006.htm

Similar strength lightning suggests similar electrical potential differences between the surface and the upper atmosphere or the ionosphere. This helps clarify what effects the magnetic field has compared with the overall charge of Earth. Then comes the question of the positioning of the double layer around the Earth, and the relationship of this to the magnetic field and the overall charge.
Mo

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Shelgeyr
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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by Shelgeyr » Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:26 pm

At a guess, I would postulate that were the two planets under markedly different amounts of electric stress, you'd see more of a difference in the quantity of lightning rather than the type or kind.

That's not to say that the two atmospheres have the same capacitance, or for that matter the same resistance needing to be broken down in order to arc, but I suspect that at the "normal", i.e. less than "megalighting" level, only "just so much" of a potential difference can be built up before the resistance is going to be broken down, and once a bolt arcs across, only "just so much" of an atmospheric area is going to be discharged, leaving everything outside that area electrically undiminished. So the result would be "similar lightning" although I suspect the comparitive number of strikes might vary wildly.

Again, just a guess, for what it's worth.
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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by moses » Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:59 pm

From http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 183006.htm :
The rates of discharge, the intensity and the spatial distribution of lightning are comparable ...

To me this suggests the overall cause of the lightning on both planets is pretty similar. And I think it is saying that the comparative number of strikes is pretty similar. However I could be wrong.
Mo

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Tzunamii
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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by Tzunamii » Sun Sep 26, 2010 6:03 am

Wouldn't this be expected if Venus and Earth had recently equalized with each other/their environment?

mharratsc
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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by mharratsc » Sun Sep 26, 2010 8:00 am

From the articles that I've read, it sounds like Venus is more electrically dynamic than the Earth is. This would make sense since Venus is closer to the Sun and therefore under greater electrical stress, I would think?

The spoke about how that one Russian lander detected lightning every second (just in its vacinity) on its decent, and don't forget also how all of the mountain tops are also discharging slowly via St. Elmo's Fire (even when arcing/lightning isn't occuring).

Lastly, don't forget that Venus does maintain her incredible 'tail'- even if it is 'dark mode' discharge currently.

I think it's fair to say that Venus and Earth are both very similar electrically, but that Venus is more highly stressed by it due to her closer solar orbit. Logical? o.O
Mike H.

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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by moses » Sun Sep 26, 2010 11:05 pm

Wouldn't this be expected if Venus and Earth had recently equalized with each other/their environment?
Tzunamii


Well Venus's tail does not reach Earth's magnetosphere so it is possible for Venus to be at a much different charge. However we expect that there was considerable charge flow between Venus and Earth in the past, and this would have been an equalizing flow.

I think it's fair to say that Venus and Earth are both very similar electrically, but that Venus is more highly stressed by it due to her closer solar orbit. Logical?
mharratsc


Although comets can fire up coming closer to or further away from the Sun, the potential drop across the Solar System is small compared with the drops across the double layers of the heliosphere or that around the planets. So unless there has been a very long period of equalizing currents the planets would still basically hold their original charges.
Mo

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Re: Earth and Venus similar in strength lightning

Unread post by mharratsc » Mon Sep 27, 2010 7:58 am

moses said:
Although comets can fire up coming closer to or further away from the Sun, the potential drop across the Solar System is small compared with the drops across the double layers of the heliosphere or that around the planets. So unless there has been a very long period of equalizing currents the planets would still basically hold their original charges.
Mo
I can agree that the potential drop across the solar system is minute compared to the one across the heliosphere, but that doesn't mean that the drop across the planets is negligible, either.
I would think that- as long as there is some form of conductor (solar plasma), and as long as there is supplied power to the Sun- there should continue to be ongoing charge distribution between the solar bodies, also.

It might not be a fireworks show currently, but that doesn't mean it isn't occuring still. :)
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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nick c
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Re: Electric Venus : electric news dump

Unread post by nick c » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:14 pm

This thread will be the composite of 9 threads on the Planetary Science board, all on the topic of Venus.

thanks StefanR for the spring cleaning,
Nick

Lloyd
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Re: Electric Venus : electric news dump

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Mar 24, 2011 1:53 pm

* Sounds like a good idea, Nick, trying to get folks to discuss one topic in one thread, instead of in dozens of threads. I've been thinking for quite a while that something needs to be done to make all the TB discussion info easier to navigate.

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remelic
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Is Venus Neutral?

Unread post by remelic » Thu Mar 24, 2011 11:34 pm

When Venus approaches Earth toward superior-conjunction the same face always points toward Earth. Just like the Moon always points toward Earth because it is a neutral body having its charge separated. Venus must have a neutral charge also for this to work. No?

Just a thought.
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Will Earth pass thru Venus' Tail in June 2012?

Unread post by mathew » Sun May 22, 2011 1:11 pm

Illustrations taken from-
http://www.classicalastronomy.com/news/ ... ?a=59&z=23
Venus passes closer to the Earth than any other planet.
At inferior conjunction, that distance is approx .27 AU or 41 million km.
Most of us are not even aware that Venus is so close because the
conjunction happens on the sunny side of the earth.
Thornhill spoke at length about Venus' plasma tail tickling Earth at about 0.33 AU distance.
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =10&t=2914

Inferior Conjunction
Image
http://www.classicalastronomy.com/pix/t1.jpg

Inferior Conjunction without transit
Image
http://www.classicalastronomy.com/pix/t3.jpg

Inferior Conjunction with transit
Image
http://www.classicalastronomy.com/pix/t7.jpg

Inferior Conjunction with transit
Image
http://www.classicalastronomy.com/pix/t9.jpg
Today Venus’ comet tail can only be detected by magnetometers and charged particle detectors-
Wal Thornhill commenting on Venus’ cometary magnetotail:
"A power surge in those filaments today would cause them to glow, and Venus would form a
'stupendous' cometary apparition in the sky."
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2010/ ... tvenus.htm
March 10, 2006: This week researchers announced that a storm is coming--the most intense solar maximum in fifty years. The prediction comes from a team led by Mausumi Dikpati of the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). "The next sunspot cycle will be 30% to 50% stronger than the previous one," she says. If correct, the years ahead could produce a burst of solar activity second only to the historic Solar Max of 1958. Dikpati's forecast puts Solar Max at 2012.
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... rmwarning/

So what might we expect from this Event?
Spectacular Viewing thru a filtered telescope maybe? :D
The wind.. in its greatest power, whirls. -Black Elk

moses
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Re: Will Earth pass thru Venus' Tail in June 2012?

Unread post by moses » Sun May 22, 2011 5:57 pm

If there was CME directed at Venus/Earth at the transit, then the satellites around Earth might pick up evidence of Birkeland currents that suggest double layers in the Venus plasma tail. There might then be greater auroras and possibly a measurable change in Earth's orbit. That would be about it.
Mo

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