Mummified Dinosaurs / electric fossilization...?

[nick c]

Lloyd:
I stand corrected.
I was told that by a guide at Dinosaur State Park in Rocky Hill, CT. But apparently, I misunderstood, he was referring specifically to the Eubrontes footprints. The dinosaur that made those tracks has left no remains other than the tracks.

nick c

[Lloyd]

* Nick, according to this, http://sci.lefora.com/2009/05/12/fossil-locations/page1 , the only place in North America where a Eubrontes fossil has been found is in Arizona.
* And according to the original source, enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinofossils , the same animal fossil is found in Germany. So Eubrontes was apparently on both coasts of the U.S. and in central Europe.
* That seems to suggest that Europe and North America were once connected somehow.

[nick c]

hi Lloyd,

* Nick, according to this, http://sci.lefora.com/2009/05/12/fossil-locations/page1 , the only place in North America where a Eubrontes fossil has been found is in Arizona.
* And according to the original source, enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinofossils , the same animal fossil is found in Germany. So Eubrontes was apparently on both coasts of the U.S. and in central Europe.
* That seems to suggest that Europe and North America were once connected somehow.
* Nick, according to this, http://sci.lefora.com/2009/05/12/fossil-locations/page1 , the only place in North America where a Eubrontes fossil has been found is in Arizona.
* And according to the original source, enchantedlearning.com/subjects/dinosaurs/dinofossils , the same animal fossil is found in Germany. So Eubrontes was apparently on both coasts of the U.S. and in central Europe.
* That seems to suggest that Europe and North America were once connected somehow.

Probably, there was no Atlantic Ocean at that time, and possibly only one continent.
The Earth's climate must have been very different than today.
Also, from your list, note that in addition to Eubrontes fossils [found in Arizona, Connecticut (tracks), and Germany] there are other dinosaur species common to diverse locations on the globe:
-Ammosaurus, AZ, CT, NS
-Anchisaurus, CT and also Germany, and Africa
-Apatosaurus, CO, Mexico, MT, OK, UT, Europe
That's only a sampling of the A's!

nick c

[tholden]

Reports all over the net recently on this one, e.g.

http://news.ncsu.edu/news/2009/04/tp_schweitzer.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 144528.htm

etc. etc. The soft tissue includes collagen, hemoglobin, blood vessels etc. Mary Schweitzer of UNC was involved in the controversy over soft tissue in a tyrannosaur bone three or four years ago; this time they took extraordinary precautions to avoid anybody claiming that materials found inside bone could plausibly be contamination from any other source. There had been rumors of other people finding soft tissue in other dinosaur bones for two or three years, this is beyond rumor.

[Lloyd]

* Nick, before I reply, I want to mention some new article links on dinosaur soft tissue from Ted's new thread:
http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... f=4&t=1813
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 144528.htm
http://news.ncsu.edu/news/2009/04/tp_schweitzer.php

Abstract: Molecular preservation in non-avian dinosaurs is controversial. We present multiple lines of evidence that endogenous proteinaceous material is preserved in bone fragments and soft tissues from an 80 million year old Campanian hadrosaur, Brachylophosaurus canadensis (MOR 2598). Microstructural and immunological data are consistent with preservation of multiple bone matrix and vessel proteins, and phylogenetic analyses of Brachylophosaur collagen sequenced by mass spectrometry robustly support the bird-dinosaur clade, consistent with an endogenous source for these collagen peptides. These data complement earlier results from Tyrannosaurus rex (MOR 1125) and confirm that molecular preservation in Cretaceous dinosaurs is not a unique event.

[Lloyd]

* Here's some dinosaur data that I compiled lately at http://sci.lefora.com/2009/05/12/fossil-locations/page1
* The most impressive finds are where the same animal existed on one of the major continents plus Australia or Antarctica, because the latter 2 would be the hardest to get to under current conditions. There seem to be only 13 such species (see below).
* Looks like there are about 75 species found on more than one continent as below.

* Kinds of animal fossils per continent (asterisks * indicate not quite all are officially dinosaurs)
NA 198; SA 53; Eur 150; Afr 83; Asia 175; Aus 21; Ant 11

SAME ANIMAL ON DIFFERENT CONTINENTS

- 14 NA & Eur: Anatosaurus, Apatosaurus, Anomoepus, Camarasaurus, Camptosaurus, Diplovertebron*, Edaphosaurus*, Eubrontes, Iliosuchus, Ornatotholus, Pleurocoelus, Pteranodon*, Saltoposuchus*, Saurechinodon
- 2 NA=SA & Eur: Ichthyosaur*, Opthalmosaurus*
- 6 NA & Afr: Ceratosaurus, Astrodon, Barosaurus, Elaphrosaurus, Massospondylus, Syntarsus
- 5 NA & Eur-Afr: Anchisaurus, Brachiosaurus, Dryosaurus, Grallator, Thecodontosaurus
- 2 SA & Afr: Laplatasaurus, Mesosaurus*
- 1 SA & Eur-Afr: Eustreptospondylus
- 1 SA & Eur: Gigantosaurus
- 1 SA & Asia: Antarctosaurus
- 11 NA-Asia: Archaeornithomimus, Brachylophosaurus, Deinonychus, Dyoplosaurus, Elasmosaurus*, Ornithomimus, Procheneosaurus, Saurolophus, Segnosaurus, Tyrannosaurus, Ultrasauros
- 1 NA=SA & Eur=Asia: Mixosaurus*
- 1 NA & Eur=Asia: Stegosaurus
- 2 NA & Ant: Hadrosaurus, Nodosaurid
- 1 NA=SA & Ant: Ankylosaur
- 1 NA & Eur & Ant: Hypsilophodon
- 2 NA & Eur-Afr & Ant: Mosasaurus*, Plateosaurus
- 1 NA & Eur-Afr=Asia & Ant: Iguanodon
- 1 Eur-Afr=Asia & Ant: Plesiosaurus*
- 1 Afr=Asia & Ant: Lystrosaurus*
- 2 NA & Aus: Allosaurus, Tylosaurus*
- 2 NA & Eur-Afr & Aus: Pterodactyloids*, Pterosaurs*
- 3 NA=SA: Andesaurus, Cymbospondylus*, Smilodon*
- 5 Eur=Asia: Aralosaurus, Itemirus, Megalosaurus, Poekilopleuron, Titanosaurus
- 2 Afr=Asia: Majungasaurus, Algoasaurus
- 1 Eur-Afr=Asia: Nothosaurus*
- 6 Eur-Afr: Bothriospondylus, Cetiosaurus, Erectopus, Mastodonsaurus*, Rhamphorhynchus*, Steneosaurus*

[Tzunamii]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... issue.html
Here's the National Geographic article from 2005. I'm guessing they remove pics from archives, here are some.


Soft tissues are preserved within hindlimb elements of Tyrannosaurus rex (Museum of the Rockies specimen 1125). Removal of the mineral phase reveals transparent, flexible, hollow blood vessels containing small round microstructures that can be expressed from the vessels into solution. Some regions of the demineralized bone matrix are highly fibrous, and the matrix possesses elasticity and resilience. Three populations of microstructures have cell-like morphology. Thus, some dinosaurian soft tissues may retain some of their original flexibility, elasticity, and resilience.
http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/a ... /5717/1952
Neet stuff. It's hard to believe that it's 70 million years old.

[MGmirkin]

Reports all over the net recently on this one, e.g.

http://news.ncsu.edu/news/2009/04/tp_schweitzer.php
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 144528.htm

etc. etc. The soft tissue includes collagen, hemoglobin, blood vessels etc. Mary Schweitzer of UNC was involved in the controversy over soft tissue in a tyrannosaur bone three or four years ago; this time they took extraordinary precautions to avoid anybody claiming that materials found inside bone could plausibly be contamination from any other source. There had been rumors of other people finding soft tissue in other dinosaur bones for two or three years, this is beyond rumor.

Yep, previously noted a few pages back on this thread. Merged the new stuff into this one.

http://thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpBB3/v ... 764#p20764

Regards,
~Michael Gmirkin

[Lloyd]

* By the way, here's what your Connecticut Eubrontes dinosaur is supposed to have looked like:

[nick c]

Lloyd,
I wonder if the real Eubrontes had feathers?
nick c

[cigarshaped]

There had been rumors of other people finding soft tissue in other dinosaur bones for two or three years, this is beyond rumor.

Yes and Ch4 Television did a documentary on the hadrosaur, because of skin detail remnants.

http://www.channel4.com/science/microsi ... aur_mummy/

The entire area of Hell Creek in North Dakota is a mass of dinosaur remains. It was a 16 yr old who picked up this one.

To me the most significant conclusion is that an entire layer of strata, now 'solid' all around the globe, is due to a single catastrophic event. The crust raised to such a temperature that mud/riverbed/seabed became rock in an instant.

[Lloyd]

* Where can I find geologic cross sections for locations all over a continent that show rock strata at each location and the thickness of each stratum and the type of rock in that stratum and the types of fossils found there? I've found haphazard geologic cross sections and geologic maps, but nothing comprehensive or well organized.
* Here's an example of the kinds of data I'm looking for.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Limestone 50' thick, large mammal fossils
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandstone 30' thick, dinosaurs
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Shale 100' thick, trilobites
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sandstone 60' thick, fish
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
granite indefinite depth, none

[allynh]

I just know of the usual suspects.

NOAA's National Geophysical Data Center
http://www.ngdc.noaa.gov/ngdc.html

U.S. Geological Survey
http://www.usgs.gov/

This is the site that has the kind of data I have in paper books for New Mexico, but it only shows the view from above.

National Cooperative Geologic Mapping Program
http://ncgmp.usgs.gov/

I could not find cross-section data, yet it has to be buried in these sites somewhere. They link to all the different states and organizations that generate the maps. They may have links to people you can e-mail if the information isn't obvious.

[webolife]

Lloyd, I'm hoping this doesn't sound too spoil-sporty, but I put together an extensive powerpoint presentation a couple years ago including images intended to present the kind of info you are looking for. Hundreds of hours yielded little satisfactory data... the fact is, this type of information just isn't known! Geologists generally infer cross-sectional info from the stuff they find at the surface, based on scenarios of superposition based on uniformitarian assumptions. I spent some hours doing this type of work for my Earth Science degree back in college. In this dearth of information, geologists have synthesized the Geologic Column [oooh, capitalized letters, mmmm, must be true ] and its associated geologic timescale.
Fossil density and fossil diversity are frequently inferred from exposed strata, and often wild claims are made on this basis.
The biggest assumptions are left for explaining the story line of the alleged hiatal epochs between major strata. Haphazard is apparently all we get at this point.

[cigarshaped]

... the fact is, this type of information just isn't known! Geologists generally infer cross-sectional info from the stuff they find at the surface, based on ... uniformitarian assumptions.
.... geologists have synthesized the Geologic Column [)] and its associated geologic timescale.
Fossil density and fossil diversity are frequently inferred from exposed strata, and often wild claims are made on this basis.
The biggest assumptions are left for explaining the story line of the alleged hiatal epochs between major strata.
... Haphazard is apparently all we get at this point.

I'm glad webolife has brought some sanity here. The unif'n timescale has always grated with me. Based on gradualism, since Lyell and co. It seems to avoid explaining the catastrophe that must have caused each strata, concentrating on the in-between 000,000yrs for each new range of species to 'evolve'

However, discounting all those guestimated zeros,...I wonder if we find an overall E to W direction for the inundation liquid 'goo', typically sea/ lake bed material. Is the thicker layer on the most Easterly side of continents? That is assuming the Earth rotated as now and was abruptly stopped/ jerked in its normal motion.

I was trying to imagine a cookery simile such as custard on a muffin, or fast setting icing on a cake! In NE Canada last week, we saw this amazing stripy pink/black rock. On the dark side of this quay huge folds of stripy 'toffee' poured onto an oscillating surface? Was the Earth shaken back and forth in that instant? Or was it many subsequent layers laid down over millenia? Hey, I'm not a geologist. I should do the course and get brainwashed.