Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

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MGmirkin
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Re: Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

Unread post by MGmirkin » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:22 pm

Further commentary and information:

(The mystery of the varying nuclear decay)
http://physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/36108
It is well-known that a radioactive substance follows a fixed exponential decay, no matter what you do to it. The fact has been set in stone since 1930 when the “father” of nuclear physics Ernest Rutherford, together with James Chadwick and Charles Ellis, concluded in their definitive Radiations from Radioactive Substances that “the rate of transformation…is a constant under all conditions.”

But this is no longer the view of a pair of physicists in the US. Ephraim Fischbach and Jere Jenkins of Purdue University in Indiana are claiming that, far from being fixed, certain decay “constants” are influenced by the Sun. It is a claim that is drawing mixed reactions from others in the physics community, not least because it implies that decades of established science is flawed.
Fischbach and Jenkins first began looking for fluctuations in nuclear decays in 2006 after they came across the report of an experiment performed at Brookhaven National Laboratory (BNL), New York, between 1982 and 1986. The BNL team found that over that period the decay constant of silicon–32 — relative to a long-lived standard — modulated around its usual value of about 172 years by the order of 0.1%. What is more, the modulation appeared to be almost in phase with the varying distance of the Earth to the Sun: in January, when the Earth is closest, the decay rate was faster; in July, when the Earth is farthest, it was slower.

The Purdue researchers were intrigued by the modulation in the BNL data, and in late 2006 began monitoring another nuclear isotope, manganese–54, for unexpected fluctuations. Initially the manganese’s decay seemed to closely follow the usual exponential law. But on 13 December Jenkins caught a story by chance on FOX News about an unusually large solar flare, prompting him and Fischbach to compare their manganese data with X-ray readings from satellites.

[Image]

They discovered that a spike in X-ray flux associated with the flare roughly coincided with a dip in the manganese’s decay rate. Two days later, an X-ray spike from a second solar flare coincided with another, though very faint, dip. Then, on 17 December, a third X-ray spike accompanied yet another dip, which was more prominent.

The Purdue researchers submitted a paper on the solar flare correlations to Physical Review Letters but it was rejected, they say, because there was no mechanism to back it up (they have since uploaded the preprint to arXiv:0808.3156). Undeterred, they began searching the literature for other records of fluctuating decay rates, and indeed this year they found another example in a 15 year-long experiment completed in 1998 at the Physikalisch–Technische Bundesanstalt (PTB) in Germany. As in the BNL experiment, the PTB experiment found an annual modulation in a decay constant, though this time for the nuclear isotope radium–226. “We were hoping that the identification of fluctuations in other data would lend support to the idea that solar activity could influence decay rates,” explains Fischbach.
Even if the decay-rate correlations with solar flares and the Earth–Sun distance are more than a coincidence, they raise the question of precisely what solar activity is causing the effect. In a more recent paper submitted to Physical Review Letters (preprint at arXiv:0808.3283), the Purdue researchers suggest that the radioactive nuclei are somehow affected by solar neutrinos.

The trouble with this interpretation is that neutrinos are only susceptible to the weak interaction, which governs beta decay. Although the silicon in the BNL experiment beta decays, the radium in the PTB experiment alpha decays — a process that is governed by the strong interaction. Nonetheless, Fischbach and Jenkins think radium exhibits the modulation because many of its decay products — such as lead–214 and bismuth–214 — do in fact beta-decay.

The Purdue researchers use this reasoning to explain why Peter Cooper, a physicist from Fermilab, Illinois, found no decay-rate fluctuation in an extraterrestrial version of the BNL and PTB experiments in a preprint uploaded last week (arXiv:0809.4248). Taking data from NASA’s Cassini probe, Cooper noted that the decay of the plutonium–238 thermoelectric generators on board scarcely veered from the usual exponential law as the spacecraft went as close to the Sun as Venus and as far as Saturn. But Fischbach and Jenkins point out that, considering the plutonium–238 decay chain, it would take a very long time for Cassini’s generators to build up any isotopes that beta-decay.
Meanwhile, the Purdue researchers have just found yet another example of the decay-rate annual modulation — this time by a US paediatrician who was investigating the decay of plutonium–238–beryllium in 1990. “What our data are showing is that the half lives, or the decay constants, are apparently not fundamental constants of nature, but appear to be affected by solar activity,” says Fischbach. “To summarize, what we are showing is that the decay constant is not really a constant.”
Interesting stuff. So, solar flares appear to cause a dip. The point in Earth's orbit seems to affect decay rates. So, what's the cause?

Not 100% sure if this is related or not, but it seems interesting:

(Accelerated Beta Decay for Disposal of Fission Fragment Wastes)
http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/ser ... 807793.PDF

(Electromagnetically induced nuclear beta decay in electric-field gauge)
adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1984PhRvC..29.1825R

(Observation of the acceleration by an electromagnetic field of nuclear beta decay)
cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20279471

Are they more-or-less verifying that the sun has an electric field and that Earth's passage through it modulates decay rates? IF so, how do solar flares fit in (or do they mean something else is going on)?

~Michael Gmirkin
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"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law

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popster1
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Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by popster1 » Wed Jul 01, 2009 8:09 pm

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... atoms.html

Half life of silicon-32 reported to vary seasonally.
They think the data fits into an emerging pattern indicating that radioactivity is not quite the immutable process we assume it to be. Instead, it is susceptible to unseen interference from an unexpected quarter - the sun.
I've lived long enough to see nearly everything I ever believed to be true disproved at least once.

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by moses » Wed Jul 01, 2009 9:42 pm

Terrific article !

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... ?full=true
"The well-documented 200-year period of sunspot activity,
known as the de Vries/Suess cycle, would cause variations
in the number of neutrinos being emitted by the sun,
which would in turn influence carbon-14 decay rates."

Is it neutrinos that cause the seasonal variation in carbon 14 decay rates ?
Or is it something else that varies with the distance from the Sun ? What
if this 'something else' can vary greatly under some circumstances ?
Mo

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by allynh » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:38 am

This ties in with an earlier article posted in a similar thread.

Oct 2, 2008
The mystery of the varying nuclear decay

Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth-Sun Distance

The key points from the new article are:
Nuclei such as silicon-32 undergo beta decay, during which a neutron in the atomic nucleus decays into the slightly less massive proton. As it does so, it emits an electron and a near-massless particle, an antineutrino. As antineutrinos are notoriously difficult to detect, beta decay is signalled simply by a nucleus spontaneously emitting an electron.

Fischbach and Jenkins suggest that another reaction would, in theory, have the same signature. If a neutrino - a sister particle to the antineutrino - knocked into a neutron in an atomic nucleus, it would produce a proton and an electron. The nuclear fusion reactions that power the sun's core are spewing neutrinos equally in all directions. The further away from that source you go, the more spread out those neutrinos are. The higher flux of neutrinos through the Earth when it is close to the sun would therefore bump up nuclear decay rates (see diagram).
The evidence is bitty, however, and the consensus is that much more is needed before the theory can be properly assessed. Alvin Sanders, a physicist at the University of Tennessee in Knoxville, thinks there could be something in it. He reckons it might also hold the key to another curiosity - the fact that when the age of trees judged using carbon-14 dating is compared with their age gauged by counting their rings, the discrepancy between the two gets larger and smaller over a cycle of about 200 years.
"Wiggles in carbon-14 dates are well known as a nuisance," says Sanders.
All this ties into the Transmutation and Mummified Dinosaurs threads.

Recovered: Transmutation on Stars, Planets etc

Mummified Dinosaurs / electric fossilization...?

If Thornhill is right, that neutrons = aether, then we are seeing direct evidence of that with this varying rate of decay.

Stuff like this is fun.

[Insert mad scientist laugh]It's alive, it's alive![/laugh]

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by Lloyd » Thu Jul 02, 2009 2:06 pm

* According to http://www.ornl.gov/sci/isotopes/r_si32.html and http://www.ornl.gov/sci/isotopes/s_si.html , Silicon-32 is very rare and radioactive, with a half-life of about 100 years. The main isotope is Silicon-28. There are small amounts of stable Silicon-29 and Silicon-30. It's interesting that neutrinos apparently can trigger transmutation of Si-32 [to Phosphorus-32], but it's not as impressive as transmuting stable Si isotopes, because Si-32 is unstable to begin with and apparently doesn't need much disturbance to "topple" it.

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by allynh » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:30 pm

allynh wrote:
If Thornhill is right, that neutrons = aether, then we are seeing direct evidence of that with this varying rate of decay.
Oops, I meant "neutrinos = aether."

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by earls » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:10 pm

Remind me what kind of EM radiation neutrons produce?

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by moses » Thu Jul 02, 2009 6:03 pm

Why can't they test fast decaying atoms in February and August ?
This would allow quick results.
Mo

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by kschalm » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:31 pm

russian scientist simon shnoll discovered this effect decades earlier, first in the rate of biochemical reactions and later in nuclear decay and other systems, long before the work of Alburger or Fischbach & Jenkins. i wonder why new scientist and physics world do not mention him? it seems his work is quite well known, at least on the internet and in russia.

http://www.telesio-galilei.com/awards2009.html
Prof Simon Shnoll of the Institute of Biophysics of the Russian Academy of Sciences is awarded a Gold Medal from the Telesio-Galilei Academy for the experimental work carried out in the last 60 years by which it was discovered that tens of thousands of experiments of extremely diverse nature show that the small fluctuations of their histograms obey time periodicities with the synchronicities of an earthly day, a lunar month, a sidereal year. ...
More recently Simon Shnoll and his team have examined data from the Global Consciousness Project ... and they have found the same pattern of similarity ... implying that the source of the structure is informational ... and that the relations between mind, matter, energy and systems at large are in need of research. ... These experiments have established the seeds of a possible scientific revolution.
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/a ... /time.html
We take a radioactive sample, and place it in front of a suitable detector (such as a Geiger counter), which counts the individual acts of radioactive decay ... we fix a certain period of time (10 seconds, or a minute for example), and record the number of counts during each of a series of consecutive intervals of the given length. ... we construct a histogram, by plotting the number of times a given whole number appears in the sequence, as a function of the number. ... Now, from the standpoint of simple statistics we would expect the histogram curve to have a simple bell shape ...

However, real measurements of radioactivity and many other processes, carried out by Shnoll and others over many years, give a completely different result! The histograms typically show several clearly defined peaks, which do not “smooth out” as we increase the number of measurements, but which actually become more and more pronounced! ... furthermore, the Russian researchers have discovered well-defined periods, over which similar histogram shapes tend to recur ....

To do this, they devised a computer-based algorithm for measuring the relative degree of “closeness” or similarity of histogram shapes, and on this basis carried out a computer analysis of hundreds of histograms taken over a long period. Examining the distribution of time intervals between “similar” histograms, they found strong peaks at 0 hours (that is, histograms made independently at the same time tend to be similar), at approximately 24 hours, at 27.28 days (probably corresponding to the synodic rotation of the Sun), and at three time intervals close to a year: 364.4, 365.2 and 366.6 days.
also http://www.cyclesresearchinstitute.org/ ... n9810d.pdf
and google 'simon shnoll' to find more articles and some of shnoll's own papers.

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Re: Solar effect on radioactive decay

Unread post by MGmirkin » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:42 pm

popster1 wrote:Half life of silicon-32 reported to vary seasonally.
Wouldn't be the first time! ;o] As they say, there is a growing body of evidence that half lives aren't quite as immutable as once believed. Granted, they were always a "statistical argument" anyway... IE, no way of predicting WHEN a particular decay would happen, only that over time there would be some "average" decay rate.

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Radioactive decay and solar flares

Unread post by Sal » Tue Aug 24, 2010 1:15 am

Hi,
I am a long time reader of this forum. Maybe I found something interesting here.

Excerpts:
On Dec 13, 2006, the sun itself provided a crucial clue, when a solar flare sent a stream of particles and radiation toward Earth. Purdue nuclear engineer Jere Jenkins, while measuring the decay rate of manganese-54, a short-lived isotope used in medical diagnostics, noticed that the rate dropped slightly during the flare, a decrease that started about a day and a half before the flare.
long-term observation of the decay rate of silicon-32 and radium-226 seemed to show a small seasonal variation. The decay rate was ever so slightly faster in winter than in summer.
All of the evidence points toward a conclusion that the sun is “communicating” with radioactive isotopes on Earth, said Fischbach.
Jenkins and Fischbach guessed that the culprits in this bit of decay-rate mischief were probably solar neutrinos

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Re: Radioactive decay and solar flares

Unread post by redeye » Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:39 am

Great article

previous thread:

Cheers
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Re: Radioactive decay and solar flares

Unread post by ElecGeekMom » Tue Aug 24, 2010 9:58 am

What is the difference between solar flares and coronal holes, or rather the difference in emissions?

I'm wondering today because that Hurricane Danielle just got weaker...and according to spaceweather.com we are now in the flow from a coronal hole. And because not long before Hurricane Katrina got so big, major solar flares were logged.

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The Sun is breaking the rules of chemistry! Any Guesses?

Unread post by Maddogkull1 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 10:19 am

http://io9.com/5619954/the-sun-is-chang ... -chemistry

The Sun is changing the supposedly constant rates of decay of radioactive elements, and we have absolutely no idea why. But an entirely unknown particle could be behind it. Plus, this discovery could help us predict deadly solar flares.

It's one of the most basic concepts in all of chemistry: Radioactive elements decay at a constant rate. If that weren't the case, carbon-14 dating wouldn't tell us anything reliable about the age of archaeological materials, and every chemotherapy treatment would be a gamble. It's such a fundamental assumption that scientists don't even bother testing it anymore. That's why researchers had to stumble upon this discovery in the most unlikely of ways.

A team at Purdue University needed to generate a string of random numbers, a surprisingly tricky task that is complicated by the fact that whatever method you use to generate the numbers will have some influence on them. Physics professor Ephraim Fischbach decided to use the decay of radioactive isotopes as a source of randomness. Although the overall decay is a known constant, the individual atoms would decay in unpredictable ways, providing a random pattern.

That's when they discovered something strange. The data produced gave random numbers for the individual atoms, yes, but the overall decay wasn't constant, flying in the face of the accepted rules of chemistry. Intrigued, they checked out long range observations of silicon-32 and radium-226 decay, both of which showed a slight but definite variation over time. Intriguingly, the decay seemed to vary with the seasons, with the rate a little faster in the winter and a little slower in the summer.

More in the link! What do you guys think?

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Re: The Sun is breaking the rules of chemistry! Any Guesses?

Unread post by nick c » Wed Aug 25, 2010 12:36 pm

A recent thread:
Radioactive decay and solar flares

An interesting article from a link in the above thread:
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2010/augu ... 82310.html

A related thread:
Nuclear Decay Varies With Earth Sun Distance

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