Positive and Negative

[Michael V]

Challenge To Everyone,

I would be grateful if anyone could present any evidence whatsoever of the existence of positive and negative matter.

Many EU explanations appear to rest on the fairytale existence of this curious phenomenon.

I have looked and pondered, but I have as yet found absolutely no evidence at all of the existence of positive and negative as a property of the physical universe.

I await a flood of responses.

Regards

Michael

[saul]

Challenge To Everyone,

I would be grateful if anyone could present any evidence whatsoever of the existence of positive and negative matter.

Many EU explanations appear to rest on the fairytale existence of this curious phenomenon.

I have looked and pondered, but I have as yet found absolutely no evidence at all of the existence of positive and negative as a property of the physical universe.

I await a flood of responses.

Regards

Michael

Are you talking about charge?
http://www.sciencephoto.com/media/1220/enlarge

[Michael V]

Yes. Positive charge and Negative charge. Any evidence please.

Thank you saul.

Michael

[saul]

Did you see the picture?

Some things came through the chamber. Some curved left, others curved right. Other things would go straight through (it's a magnet that is making them bend). We call these three categories positive, negative, and neutral.

[Michael V]

saul,

Thanks again.

OK, so far we have objects that react differently to magnetic fields. This is quite along way from any kind of proof that it is due to a fundamental charge difference.

Do you know of any other examples where objects display a specific type of charge?

Michael

[peter09]

Yeah,

negative charged electrons will move towards a positive charged plate and away from a negative charged plate. This is electrostatics, nothing to do with magnetism. An experiment using plates was the first to identify and measure the charge on an electron.

The physical observation of this effect is what defines charge, i.e like charges repel etc. Different charges are described as positive or negative. Its just the language that describes the observation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_drop_experiment

[Sparky]

by some entity calling themself, mjv, in the "What is Electricity" thread,

What I mean by "charge" is the emission of quantum particles from electrons and protons, i.e. what is usually referred to as "electrostatic charge".

If it is an emission, why will a charged balloon stick to my shirt?
Why does people's hair stand up? Two different directions of apparent action, by the same emission charge.

[Michael V]

Sparky,

If it is an emission, why will a charged balloon stick to my shirt?
Why does people's hair stand up? Two different directions of apparent action, by the same emission charge.

Magnetism certainly is a curious phenomenon and it operates in 3 dimensions.

Michael

[Sparky]

Magnetism? We were talking about "electrostatic charge". ES is an indication of opposites isn't it? Left and right, up or down, in or out, N OR S, E OR W, positive or negative?

Call them what you will, but there appears to be attractors and repulsive tensions, that seem to fall under the heading of electric phenomenon. Charges, regardless of the accuracy of that term, nor the completely reductive understanding of it, seems to work.
There appear to be positive and negative charge states of tension that react in predictable ways.

Maybe the balloon is charged with additional electrons that emit aether which amplifies the gravity effect.
But i can't see a latex balloon developing magnetic properties..

[Michael V]

Sparky,

That's right, Magnetism. Rub those electrons into alignment and watch the wonders ensue.

Consider a spinning disc attached to a post. Let's have the disc spinning clockwise. Now go round and look at the disc from the other side. It is still spinning the same way, but now you will observe it as spinning anti-clockwise. Same disc, same direction of spin, but two different observational results. Just a thought that you might want to spin round your mind a few times.

Michael

[Sparky]

Sparky,

That's right, Magnetism. Rub those electrons into alignment and watch the wonders ensue.

Consider a spinning disc attached to a post. Let's have the disc spinning clockwise. Now go round and look at the disc from the other side. It is still spinning the same way, but now you will observe it as spinning anti-clockwise. Same disc, same direction of spin, but two different observational results. Just a thought that you might want to spin round your mind a few times.

Michael

I read some study where they discovered that bits of matter were transfered when two objects were rubbed together. Seems they also discovered that "charges" were distributed in clusters.

So, there are electrons aligned or not, they will be quantum emitted in all directions! I will take a wild ass guess that the latex balloon will not impede this emittance very much, and so you have emittance from whatever object the balloon is stuck on and the emittance of the balloon and all the gas in it and around it?

Where is the bombardment charge effect? Where is the magnet?

[seasmith]

Michael V » Wed Feb 15, 2012 10:36 am

Yes. Positive charge and Negative charge. Any evidence please.?

Michael,

As Sparky has rightly indicated, the question is moot until charge is localized.




viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4859&p=63105#p63105

[Michael V]

seasmith,

the question is moot until charge is localized.

I don't understand, could you please more detailed and explicit.

Michael

[Michael V]

saul,

Regarding your first post - what is a cosmic ray? If there are different types, what specifically produces the result shown in the photograph?

Thanks,

Michael

[saul]

saul,

Regarding your first post - what is a cosmic ray? If there are different types, what specifically produces the result shown in the photograph?

Thanks,

Michael

Hi Michael -

A cosmic ray is a generic term basically used for any charged particle that comes from outside the Earth, though some might prefer other terms for those particles that come from the sun. There are several varieties usually characterized by energy. They have been observed up to an incredible 10^20 electron volts (compare to the energies ~ a million times smaller at the LHC), and their flux or density obeys a remarkably perfect power law over this whole range. These cosmic rays will collide with some atoms in the atmosphere and create a "shower" of high energy particles, which are usually still called "cosmic rays".

The ones in that photo are electrons and positrons. A ton of interesting discoveries has come from cosmic rays, and there are still a lot of mysteries to unravel.

There is still a lot of debate as to what exact mechanisms create the electric fields which have accelerated these particles; 1st order Fermi acceleration from supernova shocks does predict a power law distribution. Another example is Anomalous cosmic rays which most people believed were accelerated at the termination shock of the heliosphere. However as Voyager spacecraft crossed this boundary they didn't see what was expected.

Hmm, got a bit off track with that answer, sorry.