Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby David Talbott » Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:33 pm

starbiter wrote:I'm surprised no one responded to this earlier. This could end the use of electricity on our planet for generations if the comet tail brushes the Earth, or not. The negative charge Nitai refers to could produce many Tunguska, Chicago Fire type events. With our reliance on vulnerable metallic circuits, a flyby through the negatively charged comet tail could make survivalist skills essential. I wouldn't want to be in a large city with no electricity for years.

Maybe realtors will start looking at caves in the mountains.


Michael, I hope you're not serious with this post. :) If astronomers claims with respect to the orbit are reasonably accurate, one thing we should expect is the likelihood of a rather impressive display, more than would be expected under the usual theoretical assumptions. As we get more details about the comet, it could indeed be a good test of EU comet theory. Well worth following. Of course, if we brush the tail, measurable atmospheric effects might be expected, but certainly not Doomsday.

Planetary encounters in the past are a much different matter than a close approach to a body a billionth of the size of Earth. What would make it interesting at all is the electric force, so much more powerful than gravity.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby MrAmsterdam » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:30 am

Hello kmerrell and welcome,

Yes! It is on my radar.

"Original estimates put it's trajectory within 8 Astronomical Units (AU) of earth, but revised numbers put it much closer at 0.15 au."

Could you help me out and convert these numbers to earth radii? I would like to know if 0.15 au falls within the limit of 15 earth radii. If so, we can use this meteor to see what happens when it flies through a plasma "field" -> Ionosphere. It seems that within a range of 15 earth radii all kinds of unexplained effects will happen with the comet, this has been remarked by some mainstream scientists.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Nitai » Sun Feb 13, 2011 12:20 pm

You can convert AU to LD (lunar distance) and it's many LD's away.. so not 15 earth radii or closer..
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:36 pm

Hello Dave: I don't expect the comet under discussion to be like the events described in WiC. But a period of 38,000 years Implies a very negative charge. This could produce events like the Chicago fire, New Madrid earthquake or Tunguska. This could be a problem for the electric grid we depend on. Also printed circuits could melt locally. These events have all been within 200 years. They are common. They appear to be the result of comet fragments. Without the grid, modern cities could be problematic at best. Without printed circuits most vehicles are just pieces of useless metal. This event will probably be a big yawn, I hope. But I will avoid L A. and other large cities if this comet doesn't change course. I've discussed this with a couple of EU insiders who both think this COULD be a problem. Not will be, but could be. We have made ourselves vulnerable thinking our universe is electricly neutral. You have taught me it's not.


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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Dotini » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:33 pm

Where is the comet now? How far from the solar system? Who all is observing it? What factors determine its course?

Here's a link that suggests a whole fleet of spacecraft are to be launched on stand-by missions to watch for CME's: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/spac ... casts.html

What exactly are the forces that can accelerate a CME to 1/4 the speed of light?

Humbly submitted, seeking correction.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby kiwi » Sun Feb 13, 2011 4:57 pm

starbiter wrote:....This could be a problem for the electric grid we depend on

michael steinbacher


have large CME's also been said to do that? .... are there any shared factors between them and how the comet may cause that problem? ...

...They appear to be the result of comet fragments.



is that only in respect to the fires? (ignition from the hot chunks).... is there an electrical component also from its close proximity that causes some of the other effects? ..... a blow-back effect from the double layer shorting out the intruder maybe?

(have I asked the same thing twice? :roll:)

cheers :)
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:14 pm

During the Chicago fire event wrought iron railings glowed with St. Elmo's fire in Illinois and Wisconsin. See the TPOD. I believe New Madrid had plasma like descriptions from journalists. Same with Tunguska. These appear to be plasma events, IMHO.

A highly negatively charged comet COULD effect the Sun. CME's have occurred during comet approaches I believe. I'd supply links but I'm in the desert using my iPhone. No wifi.

Again, the only danger I think see is electric. And it's a long shot.

Om, michael
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:34 pm

Dotini wrote:What exactly are the forces that can accelerate a CME to 1/4 the speed of light?


I wasn't going to discuss this here as perhaps it is better suited for the NIAMI section however it does tie into the standard EU viewpoint put forward here at TB to some extent so if a moderator doesn't think it belongs here they can (re)move it. This is only my personal view, I doubt many TB EU theorists will support it.

Sol is connected to Earth by tiny 'flux tubes' or lines of (electric) force at a subatomic level which form a circuit between the sun and Earth's poles, and at the heart of these flux tubes is empty or vacuum space which offers no resistance to electrical energy.

In the plasma medium between Earth and the Sun the free floating ions and electrons are electrically 'stimulated' or polarized by these subatomic flux tube currents which leads to the formation of electromagnetic currents.

The magnetic forces produced cause the flux tubes to twist or wind around each other into tiny filaments, and due to the fractal nature of plasma those EM currents combine into larger and larger filaments.

Essentially a cosmic Birkeland Current could consist of millions, billions or even trillions(or more) of these tiny flux tube currents, and it is these flux tubes that actually "carry" the electrical energy released by a CME.

Because the energy is traveling through vacuum space with zero resistance the only factor limiting it's velocity is it's electrical energy potential or level of charge.

The EM forces around the sun itself would likely limit it's initial velocity as it 'breaks free' so maybe it is not so much that the CME is accelerating away as perhaps it is decelerated or 'held back' initially and then increases velocity to reach it's 'standard' propagation speed as it breaks free of the stronger EM forces closer to the sun?

The sun being a variable star as per the views I have seen expressed by TB members and EU theorists is the reason for the EM energy, as the energy constantly is increasing or decreasing the energy field expands and contracts and 'pushes' or 'pulls' on the local electric lines of force(flux tubes) and produces the torsion that is magnetic energy which establishes an EMF at the boundaries of that local variable charge field(the heliospheric charge sheet).

In my view no electrons or ions are actually 'carried' by a CME, the electrons and ions are simply 'stimulated' as a result of the dielectric energy flow, especially in areas of higher EM activity such as Sol or Earth's EMF's.

Well, it's a theory anyways, eh?

Again, this is not in any way endorsed by the official EU TB theorists to my knowledge and I only mention it here as it does tie into the official theories somewhat, but ultimately I am just throwing out some ideas as the discussion around here has been a bit stifled since Nereid and 'Physicist' have showed up. [Edit: in fairness that also probably has a great deal to do with JL's passing as well.]

Spice things up a little. :)

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Dotini » Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:28 am

Thanks for that explanation, Jonny. I have read in the popular press that "millions of tonnes of particles" are involved in these CME's. Is that a fact, or is that wrong? Clearly, CME's are not easy to explain - if they were everyone would be doing it. However, most sensible people think the big ones can pose dangers.

Now if Comet Elenin has been building up massive negative charge for tens of thousands of years, it too could pose a similar danger when and if we are swept with it's ionized coma or tail. Do Sister Denier and the mysterious "physicist" deny comets can acquire charge because they deny charge separation in interstellar space, so build up of charge is accordingly denied?

I'm suspicious of all people who throw away the precautionary principle as the first order of business, whether in finance, foreign affairs, chess or astronomy. I'm also skeptical of authority in general, and those who would seek to impose it in particular.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Dotini » Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:53 am

Oh, I forgot to ask, how can someone who identifies themselves as a denier (simple anagram of nereid) ever be accepted as intellectually honest?
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby CTJG 1986 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:36 pm

Dotini wrote:Thanks for that explanation, Jonny. I have read in the popular press that "millions of tonnes of particles" are involved in these CME's. Is that a fact, or is that wrong?


Well that is a bit of a sticky issue for me personally as I do not generally hold that electrons or ions travel in any way but simply 'resonate' or are otherwise stimulated as energy passes through or by them.

But I do believe that plasma material is ejected from the Sun during CME's and it is 'absorbed' into the plasma medium between Sol and the Earth and only the energy itself actually reaches us. It is the EM effects(stimulation of ions and electrons) of that energy in the plasma medium that appears as though electrons and ions are physically moving.

Simplistically I guess you could view the EM activity as a 'wake' to the dielectric energy passing through the plasma medium.

So in my view yes millions of tonnes of material may in fact be ejected from the sun, but little if any of that actual material reaches Earth, primarily or only energy reaches us.

The standard EU view however surely differs from this, but I believe does uphold that notion of large volumes of plasma material being ejected as well.

But regardless electrical activity is responsible, as for whether or not this comet will have any significant effect on CME activity is hard to say given the numerous factors that could contribute, we'll simply have to watch and wait and see.

Jonny
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby kiwi » Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:24 pm

Hi Dotini :D

Oh, I forgot to ask, how can someone who identifies themselves as a denier (simple anagram of nereid) ever be accepted as intellectually honest?


good question,.... is it any wonder the average bloke gets confused?

.....But there was one “gotcha”. Franklin had a 50/50 chance to guess which fluid was the excess and which the deficit—and he got it wrong. Ever since, the sign physicists apply to the charge of an electron is negative. In a circuit, the flow of the electrons is exactly opposite what is labeled the electric current. That tricky minus sign survives to this day, allowing me and my colleagues to confuse a new set of physics students every year.


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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Lloyd » Tue Feb 15, 2011 9:22 pm

Mr. Amsterdam said: Could you help me out and convert these numbers to earth radii? I would like to know if 0.15 au falls within the limit of 15 earth radii.

1 AU is 93 million miles.
0.15 AU is close to 14 million miles.
1 Earth radius is about 7,920 miles.
15 Earth radii is 118,800 miles. That's about half way to the Moon.
14 million miles is almost 1,768 Earth radii.
If the comet gets 14 million miles from Earth, that would be almost 59 times the distance to the moon.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Dotini » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:04 am

http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi
The NASA JPL Small-Body Database Browser is showing a period of 3.45 million years for Comet Elenin. Would anyone care to comment upon possible implications of this figure? Could this be our first visit by Elenin? What does it imply that the comet is within 1.8 degrees of the plane of the ecliptic - that it really does belong to the solar system?

Respectfully,
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Thu Feb 17, 2011 12:31 pm

I thought a comet period of 38,000 years was crazy high . How far out is a period of 38,000 years going to take a comet?

Now the period is over 3,000,000 years! How negative.
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