Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:45 am

Comets do not cause earthquakes, especially at the distances we are talking about...close by is another story.
If there is a connection, it is through the Sun, meaning the comet´s electric field causes a response from the Sun, which affects the Earth. Let´s keep our connections straight. Electricity flows on circuits through the path of least resistance.
If there is a major comet related disruption, the bulk of the energy would probably come from the Sun, with the comet acting as a trigger or a conductor.
The other point which has not been discussed yet despite my repeated comments, is that the comet could actually provide a shield from the Sun. This is based on Ulysses' findings. Personally I find this scenario to be the most interesting and fascinating..
Of course all of the above is based on it staying in one piece, because if it breaks up all bets are off and the chances of a fragment causing a Carrington or Tunguska event become significantly higher.

Anyway, the main point is that we have a comet on the ecliptic which will be transiting between Earth and Sun, with certain and significant interaction between the tails and Earth.
My knowledge and opinions are based mostly on what I have read in these pages. I do not pretend to know anything more, but I prefer to build my expectations on history and observation rather than movies and prophecies of doom.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:02 am

On the earthquake alignment issue

if we think of the solar system as a Van de Graaf generator, and the Earth crossing a connection between the Sun and comet Elenin, I can conceive of the event triggering an earthquake in a place where it was building up...this is of course unprovable and undetectable visually, except by noticing other electrical phenomena like auroras. There would also be no way to predict the location of the earthquake.

When Elenin transits between Earth and Sun we will learn a lot about the electric nature of comets, and perhaps this is one of the questions that can be answered....maybe since the comet will be between Earth and Sun, the effect would be the opposite...hard to know...it's all educated guesses...all we can do is wait, prepare, ask the right questions and when she comes observe carefully.
This comet is very very special and we will probably never get another chance to experience this scenario again
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby blackbird » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:04 am

IbiZen wrote:Comets do not cause earthquakes, especially at the distances we are talking about...close by is another story.
If there is a connection, it is through the Sun, meaning the comet´s electric field causes a response from the Sun, which affects the Earth. Let´s keep our connections straight. Electricity flows on circuits through the path of least resistance.
If there is a major comet related disruption, the bulk of the energy would probably come from the Sun, with the comet acting as a trigger or a conductor.
The other point which has not been discussed yet despite my repeated comments, is that the comet could actually provide a shield from the Sun. This is based on Ulysses' findings. Personally I find this scenario to be the most interesting and fascinating..
Of course all of the above is based on it staying in one piece, because if it breaks up all bets are off and the chances of a fragment causing a Carrington or Tunguska event become significantly higher.

Anyway, the main point is that we have a comet on the ecliptic which will be transiting between Earth and Sun, with certain and significant interaction between the tails and Earth.
My knowledge and opinions are based mostly on what I have read in these pages. I do not pretend to know anything more, but I prefer to build my expectations on history and observation rather than movies and prophecies of doom.


I agree, the distances are so great that obviously coulomb's electrostatic forces alone could not be the primary trigger for EQ's. Earth, and many Comets are indisputably made up of conductive elements and can be considered conductors, current has no qualms travelling through a vacuum, plasma, or humid air for that matter. The average conductivity of the Earth can roughly be considered equal to that of copper, and with flat areas with wet loam, and subduction zones tending to have the highest conductivities. I'm interested in the expanding magnetosphere possibility, will do some reading on this but sounds to be (on face value) like when you put an increasing current through a copper wire - you will get a bigger field induced (lagging current). As to it's direction I would need to experiment. Anyway enjoy some colourful links.

Conductivity map of the Earth
http://www.physorg.com/news169906990.html

Total Electron Count (updates every 5 minutes)
http://iono.jpl.nasa.gov//latest_rti_global.html
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:05 am

According to Worlds in Collision, comets cause earthquakes. The comet supposedly responsible was quite large and close. After the initial events earthquakes were very common. Things were settling out. Things might still be settling out.

My primary concern with Elenin is electrical. If the charged tail of the comet interacts with the plasmasphere of Earth there could be a noticeable event . Probably an electrical interaction. Earthquakes might be produced. Earthquakes are less of a problem than a loss of the grid, or melting printed circuits though.

I sleep less than a mile from the San Andreas fault. I'm moving. Not because of earthquakes. I'm allergic to brittlebush.

The idea of a comet shielding the Earth seems like wishful thinking. That's not a problem. I'm in favor of wishful thinking. If there is a huge CME, may it strike the comet, not Earth.

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:16 am

It's not wishful thinking, it's an extension of the Ulysses observations....
anyway we will get plenty of falling stars to wish on, so let´s make some good wishes
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:29 am

Hello IbeZen: Can You explain how a comet might shield Earth?

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby Dotini » Wed Mar 23, 2011 12:19 pm

starbiter wrote:Can You explain how a comet might shield Earth?


On October 16, 2011, Elenin will be at perigee between Earth and the Sun. It's coma, tail and debris may, stress "may", occlude the light of the Sun onto Earth. According to IbiZen, this may result in the novel and charming effect of a "black" Moon.

Respectfully submitted, always seeking correction,
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby kiwi » Wed Mar 23, 2011 1:09 pm

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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:08 pm

Dotini, the date is Sep 26...it was Sep 27 before and the moon would have been aligned too but not on 26.

could somebody who understands about electric fields explain what could happen to a negatively charged comet exactly between positive charged sun and earth ????
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:31 pm

Another possibility...the coma gets really bright when it is backlit by the sun and looks like....another sun?
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby starbiter » Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:43 pm

IbiZen wrote:Dotini, the date is Sep 26...it was Sep 27 before and the moon would have been aligned too but not on 26.

could somebody who understands about electric fields explain what could happen to a negatively charged comet exactly between positive charged sun and earth ????



I guess this is the question. Other dates and positions might also be interesting.

The only opinions i'm interested in are those of Wal Thornhill. He probably knows more about comets than anyone else on the planet.

And it's possible to understand what he writes. I assume and hope a "News and Views" on Holoscience will be forthcoming.

michael
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:38 pm

I second that
Wal, where are you????? We need you!!!

3 scenarios for 9/26 alignment
1. comet passes in one piece....no problem
2. comet breaks up from gravitational stress...pieces stay fairly in line...no problem
3. comet breaks up from electric stress....what is the range of possibilities?
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby blackbird » Wed Mar 23, 2011 5:19 pm

IbiZen wrote:I second that
Wal, where are you????? We need you!!!

3 scenarios for 9/26 alignment
1. comet passes in one piece....no problem
2. comet breaks up from gravitational stress...pieces stay fairly in line...no problem
3. comet breaks up from electric stress....what is the range of possibilities?


1. Comet passes in one piece....no problem
2. Comet breaks up from gravitational stress...pieces stay fairly in line...no problem
3. Comet breaks up from resulting electrical, atomic, and/or chemical forces.
- Local force vectors, spread the fragments into a non-deterministic debris field.
4. Comet passes intact, electrical discharges and coupling occur with Earth.
5. Comet has equalised it's charge enough already to not pose a problem electrically.
6. Sun responds to the Comet with a flare, or it doesn't.
7. Comet like cat, has tail, and does exactly what it wants.

Very important distinctions...
- Comets at a distance, Coulomb's electrostatic forces appear too weak to cause EQ's, (about 1 Newton for Elenin).
- Comets at a distance, electrical coupling possible, resultant electrical discharges might 'trigger' EQ's; due to subsequent transient changes in both, local magnetic field vectors, and locally induced charge densities.

In many systems I can demonstrate how a small change in one system, triggers a large change in another. If we were to short out the ~300kV of electrosphere over a 100sqm I guarantee a local earthquake :lol: So it's important to remember a comet wouldn't need to provide all the energy in the equation, as long as it provides the trigger mechanisms.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby IbiZen » Thu Mar 24, 2011 4:41 am

Blackbird, I agree with you, but I was just talking about the physical possibilities for the comet....and by no problem I meant only the danger of a physical impact.
The electric possibilities are what this forum should be about and I thank you for contributing your knowledge and understanding.
Electrically, there are so many variables that it is impossible to predict not only what the cat will do, but what the consequences will be.
Let's talk about different possibilities, and learn.
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Re: Comet Elenin on anyone's radar yet?

Unread postby David Talbott » Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:20 pm

Just a quick suggestion with respect to the role of “prediction.” Generally in the sciences the word does not mean foretelling the future; it means the inherent implication of a particular idea or line of reasoning. Any unbroken line of reasoning from a “model” or theoretical assumption is a prediction of that model. Whenever a model speaks with any clarity it will have inherent predictions, whether it predicts facts already in hand, or facts yet to be obtained. A prediction is of greater significance than a hypothesized “explanation” for a phenomenon because the facts coming into play are required under the proposed relationship of cause and effect.

The theoretical model of the “electric comet” has been spelled out with sufficient detail to see its implications for Elenin. As the comet races toward the Sun from the far reaches of the Sun’s domain, it will become a “Great Comet.”

I’ll call this my personal prediction, but I deserve no credit for it, since I’m simply stating the inescapable implication of a well-publicized idea. If exceptions to that idea become necessary, that will be business as usual in the evolution of theoretical work. :) Up to this point the “Electric Universe” guidelines to comet behavior say that distance from the Sun and speed of the “fall” toward the Sun are the overriding considerations. The general rule is that comets on long and highly elliptical orbits will put on the most impressive displays. The rule has worked quite well. Of course there’s room for exceptions relating to size, conductivity of material, solar behavior at the time, angle of approach, and (of course) proximity to observers on Earth. But I’d just as soon we let it all hang out based on the more obvious features of Elenin.

“Eager to be corrected if wrong” will always be the most efficient path to scientific progress.
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