Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby solrey » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:23 pm

This conceptual illustration of the newly discovered, and quite large, ring around Saturn is a pretty good depiction of what a ring current around the heliosphere might look like. Complete with an equatorial "belt" in Saturn's atmosphere.

Image

As above, so below...indeed.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:34 pm

Its exactly what the EU states, repeatable forms, in simple plasma studies, simple quantum constant studies on charge geometry, a look at Tesla's work, which is repeatable. They all work in concert to increase our understanding of how a EU pulses with life. Nice illustration for a change, instead of their black hole diagrams.
;)
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby solrey » Sun Jan 17, 2010 1:29 pm

Found this paper that, imo, provides solid evidence that what EU theory says about double layers and electric fields in space is valid.

Sheaths: More complicated than you think

Regarding "single species" plasma:
In electrodeless rf produced plasma, all electron loss must be balanced by ion loss. The steady-state loss rate of ions must balance the loss rate of electrons created by ionization because ion and electrons are created with equal rates.


The potential dip shown in Fig. 9 and Fig. 10 presents a problem in steady-state plasma. Ion-neutral charge ex
change in weakly collisional plasmas should fill up the potential dip. Charge exchange ions are electrostatically trapped in the well. The increased ion density reduces the curvature, i.e., the well depth. In steady state the dip should not exist. The solution appears to be that the potential dip seen in one direction is not a dip in the perpendicular direction, and that ions can leak out in the radial direction. The extremes of the plasma potential in rf plasma can be determined from the time-averaged emissive probe I-V characteristic curve. Peaks in the derivative dI / dV are found at maximum and minimum of the plasma potential. This is illustrated by data for a low-density inductive discharge shown in Fig. 12.23 rf is applied to a spiral coil separated from the plasma by an electrostatic screen ͑Faraday shield͒ whose area could be varied ͑see Fig. 13͒. It is apparent that the minimum plasma potential is approximately constant near 20 V while the maximum varies linearly with the open area. Data near an electrode, to which a sinusoidal voltage is applied, in a filament produced multidipole plasma, is shown in Fig. 14.24 Note that the maximum positive profile resembles the electron sheath profile including the potential dip shown in Fig. 9. The minimum potential profile resembles the ion sheath profile. Ion trapping in the potential dip is not a problem because charge exchange ions are emptied out each cycle. Overall, the characteristics of the potential dips are not understood.


What that means to me is proof that an applied external voltage potential is not necessary to create sheaths and electrostatic fields in plasma, and that "charge exchange ions" can get trapped in the sheaths and "leak" back out.
In electrodeless rf produced plasma
The extremes of the plasma potential in rf plasma can be determined from the time-averaged emissive probe I-V characteristic curve.

I believe the following is related to "supersonic" velocities.

Regarding "multi-species" plasma.
For solution 1, each ion species is lost at its own Bohm velocity while for solution 2, all species are lost at the same velocity vs which equals the sound velocity of the system of particles.


Apply the concept of rf produced plasma to Anthony Peratts paper, for example, and it all fits together quite well, imo.
Advances in Numerical Modeling of Astrophysical and Space Plasma, Part II Astrophysical Force Laws on the Large Scale.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:59 pm

Firstly- I'm astounded to see you here, Saul! Welcome! :)

Secondly- I hope you don't get in trouble for straying so far into 'unsanctioned territory'... o.O

Thirdly- I followed the logic (if not the math :P ) of that paper from UW-Madison (about a 30 min drive from where I'm at! 8-) ) and I'd have to resoundingly agree with you, Sol. Tony Peratt kept his paper more topical and less a mathematical treatise on plasma (intentionally), but combined with that UW paper... it sure gives a top-to-bottom account of how that stuff could come together in some corner of space and progress onward into something like his PIC simulation showed! :)
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:40 pm

This is illustrated by data for a low-density inductive discharge shown in Fig. 12.23 rf is applied to a spiral coil separated from the plasma by an electrostatic screen ͑Faraday shield͒ whose area could be varied ͑see Fig. 13͒. It is apparent that the minimum plasma potential is approximately constant near 20 V while the maximum varies linearly with the open area. Data near an electrode, to which a sinusoidal voltage is applied, in a filament produced multidipole plasma, is shown in Fig. 14.24 Note that the maximum positive profile resembles the electron sheath profile including the potential dip shown in Fig. 9. The minimum potential profile resembles the ion sheath profile. Ion trapping in the potential dip is not a problem because charge exchange ions are emptied out each cycle. Overall, the characteristics of the potential dips are not understood.

Firstly the apparatus described would function as a Tesla System.

One we have a Spiral Coil and electrostatic screen therefore we have a electrostatic field potential that varies on square area, ie capacitor.

Two, we have a AC sinusoidal voltage (EM) being applied, this addition to the circuit creates the system Eric Dollard described and demonstrated, the Tesla Impuse Magnifyer, and produces a very complex wave field that Tesla called Individualization, that has all four independent fields overlapped, creating the Multidipole Plasma.
The four fields, being
1. Electrostatic Inductance (Impulse)
2. Magnetic Inductance
3. EM Transverse Wave forms
4. Magneto-Dielectric Oscillations Longitudinal Wave forms (aether)

The Electrostatic flat spiral with the EM beating over top of it creates the Oscillations of the aether field.
2nd Order Fundamental Individualization of the Aether field explains the process and energy dimensions.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby solrey » Sun Jan 17, 2010 4:52 pm

Hey Mike.

Yeah, as I was reading that paper I realized...eureka, here's proof of what may be the backbone of EU theory, which is essentially, as they say right there in the introduction of the paper..."Sheaths matter." :D
Hah, no sheath sherlok.
Alfven said that DL's should be treated as a unique class of astronomical phenomena.
I would add "From which all others arise".
I think that paper on sheaths would be a good one to pull out when confronted with the "skepticism" of "charge separation and electric fields can not exist in space", nonsense. Charge separation and electric fields are a natural and expected consequence of the interactions between diverse regions of inhomogeneous plasma.
I would consider the universe to be an RF induced and modulated plasma and that's all it takes right there, no mysterious "generator" or power supply.
Considering an infinite volume of inhomogeneous plasma one can conclude that the fun never ends.
Then again, I suppose technically, it never began either. ;)

I thought that paper by Peratt was a pretty easy read, which is why I chose it.
Here's an earlier, foundational paper loaded with the maths:

Evolution of the Plasma Universe: II. The Formation of Systems of Galaxies
Last edited by solrey on Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby solrey » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:04 pm

junglelord, I thought about all that when I read this part of the paper. I figured you'd catch it.

The solution appears to be that the potential dip seen in one direction is not a dip in the perpendicular direction, and that ions can leak out in the radial direction.


Something they didn't expect or "model", but discovered in the lab by experiment.

I noted that they also initiated an induced discharge as in electromagnetic induction.

:shock:

DL Helio Sheath blowin' up da amps in da hizzzauuus.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Sun Jan 17, 2010 5:48 pm

I would like to offer a suggestion.

The reason why it radiates in the radial direction and not the perpendicular is due to the Aether.
If one considers the new Interferometer experiments, one can see that the perpendicular or vertical axis produces a positive result, while the horizontal or radial axis is null....and we always take the path of least resistance.
:D
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2857&p=30951#p30951

Is this not a possible explanation?

If the Dielectric Field density changes in the vertical axis, the Z axis, then the axis of least resistance would be radial.

Secondly the first transmission of wireless telegraph in 1860 by Dr Loomus was with a kite that had a copper screen attached to 1000 foot copper wire. A purely Electrostatic induction device.

I would imagine if one took the same kit and help it in a horizontal position, no charge would be produced! Get my drift? (full pun intended).

I would say that capacitance is not understood and is taught improperly.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2876

Clearly the earth acts as a hollow copper sphere and the fair weather current model would suggest a Dielectric Field that has variation in the perpendicular Z axis plane up to the ionosphere at the very least. So techncially one can see the radial direction as being the path of least resistance.

I wonder if we can take that one step further?

If the stars act as hollow copper/iron spheres and we examine two spheres in a Terrella, I would imagine one would see the same radial birkeland currents as in the thread on Algol
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2865

Might also explain the common form from a dual charge electron/proton to Saturn and the model Orlando mentioned for the heliosphere and a radial ring.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Jan 17, 2010 10:30 pm

Ok Mr. Science Guys...

I know that in a piece of coax cable, RF energy travels down the outside of the center conductor (not inside it) and the 'dielectric' in it is just a 'vacuum simulator', with the exterior aluminum shield keeping the outside from radiating in, and the inside from radiating out.

Does RF energy conduct down a Birkeland current, or is it all radiated away? Is that the 'synchrotron radiation', or is that something else entirely? Does any RF energy conduct between the layers of a double layer sheath?

Why this occured to me, and why it might be important at all- I have no idea. :?
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby junglelord » Sun Jan 17, 2010 11:06 pm

My understanding of RF and plasma is based on well understood physics of RF Propagation and methods used right now to transmitt signals via the earths upper atmosphere, as RF signals do not propagate through a plasma if the Plasma Frequency (the motion of the electrons in a plasma, termed harmonic motion) is higher then the RF.
If the RF is higher then the Plasma Frequency, then it will pass right through.

So it would depend on the Plasma Frequency and the frequency of the RF in that particular case.

Hope that helps.
:D
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby Ronanov » Mon Jan 18, 2010 11:52 am

Giant Ribbon at the Edge of the Solar System: Mystery Solved?

[img]see%20caption[/img]

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2010/15jan_ibex2.htm

"We believe the ribbon is a reflection," says Jacob Heerikhuisen, a NASA Heliophysics Guest Investigator from the University of Alabama in Huntsville. "It is where solar wind particles heading out into interstellar space are reflected back into the solar system by a galactic magnetic field."


"If this mechanism is correct--and not everyone agrees--then the shape of the ribbon is telling us a lot about the orientation of the magnetic field in our corner of the Milky Way galaxy," notes Heerikhuisen.


Mmmmmm. ;)
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby mharratsc » Tue Jan 19, 2010 11:44 am

junglelord wrote:My understanding of RF and plasma is based on well understood physics of RF Propagation and methods used right now to transmitt signals via the earths upper atmosphere, as RF signals do not propagate through a plasma if the Plasma Frequency (the motion of the electrons in a plasma, termed harmonic motion) is higher then the RF.
If the RF is higher then the Plasma Frequency, then it will pass right through.

So it would depend on the Plasma Frequency and the frequency of the RF in that particular case.

Hope that helps.
:D


Oh wow, duh! I never thought of it that way. I used to repair HF aviation radios in the Navy, and as such already knew the answer to that question! :oops:

So therefore- the inner plasma field of the double sheathe will be conducting RF energy within the inner magnetic boundary of the innter sheathe, til it hits home (whatever that might be).
Let's just say for a minute that we're analyzing a Birkeland current energizing either of the auroras. A stationary satellite should be able then to perceive the two individual sheathes of the double-layer as independent, and most likely different frequency, radio sources... wouldn't you think?

Anyone heard of any experiments like that which might've confirmed this notion?

And I still dunno why I'm interested in pursuing this... :roll:
Mike H.

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby jjohnson » Tue Jan 19, 2010 6:13 pm

I had thought that this
http://dysprosium.jhuapl.edu/introduction.html
might have had some useful information about this embedded in it, but all they do, in a clever way, is confirm that the Iridium satellites are passing through the Birkeland currents driving the auroras. I like that word - it seems pretentious to say aurorae since Latin has about died the death of a thousand black holes now, except for its lingering influence on the language. Nothing about RF transmission in there.
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby mharratsc » Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:26 pm

Don't let Prof. Scott here you knock Latin! :o He'll smack ya with his slide rule and make you sit in a corner of the forum with a dunce cap on!! <|:P

:lol:
Mike H.

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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby jjohnson » Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:05 pm

Hay, Mike,

I love Latin because I love languages in general, and like to know etymology and where languages originated and where they've gone, sort of like tracking human migrations through time via genetic tracking with matriarchal, mitochondrial DNA. We have the word "sponge" in English today because it came over with the Norman Conquest when Old French was spoken, and French became highly influential in England. The Old French word for "sponge" was "esponge". Those lazy Angles dropped the initial "e", and it remained in our language over the centuries and today we still say "sponge". Meanwhile (this sounds like the great old "Connections" TV show) back across the Channel, Old French mutated with time and, lazy as we all are, the French gradually got tired of the "s" in "esponge" and it was dropped. So today, the modern word in Paris is "eponge" and we're stuck with the old-fashioned version, sponge.

I never got to take Latin, but wish I had, because in junior and senior high school I took French, German and Spanish. From my perspective now, had I learned Latin my dim bulb might have lit up a lot faster in putting words together. Even now I remember how we get "cow" from German influences (die Kuh, the cow) and the cow in French and Spanish is la vache and la vaca, repectively. ROmance versus Germanic languages, but nimble English is a wonderful admixture of bot, and many others as well. The odd part here is that we are largely Indo-European languages in the Western hemisphere, except Finnish and native American languages. And a few others. Sorry, Don, if you even saw my slighting of Latin - NOT intended!

Hey, I might look real good with a dunce cap on. Apropos, in French... Okay; back on topic now.
:D
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