Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

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Re: Frothy Magnetic Bubbles.. ?

Unread postby tolenio » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:17 pm

If their reasoning is wrong usually they at least have the data correct.

If there are bubbbles, what does EU predict about such structures and why?
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Re: Frothy Magnetic Bubbles.. ?

Unread postby tolenio » Thu Jun 09, 2011 3:47 pm

Hello

Maybe they are less foamy bubbles and more like folds...

Here is an MIT video example of what I mean... See second test...

Ferrofluid in a rotating axial magnetic field;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu6L2M2gpu4


Is NASA finding folds in plasma and magnetic fields at the edge of the solar system not unlike the folds in in the outer layer of the MIT ferrofluid experiment?

Image

Note the hair like tendrils that form tighter folds over timeat higher pwer levels.

Plasma interacting with a rotating axial magnetic field of the heliosphere affecting matter/plasma in the area and forming complex folds. Not unlike the surface of the sun (solar surface picule).

Image

Seems plausible to me.

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Re: Frothy Magnetic Bubbles.. ?

Unread postby hertz » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:41 am

may want to check out the "magnetic mayhem" thread
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4661
it includes a very concise snippet from wal thornhill as to what's really going on
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Re: Frothy Magnetic Bubbles.. ?

Unread postby tolenio » Fri Jun 10, 2011 6:55 am

That looks a lot more like a fold than a bubble.

http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4661#p52767

Image

So the MIT correlation seems to be correct;

Image

Plasma motion in a rotating magnetic field is not unlike ferrofluid motion in a rotating magnetic field.

Tom
"The Pharisees and the scholars have taken the keys of knowledge and have hidden them. They have not entered nor have they allowed those who want to enter to do so. As for you, be as sly as snakes and as simple as doves." Gospel of Thomas http://www.gnosis.org/naghamm/gthlamb.html
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Magnetic Bubbles at the edge of the heliosphere

Unread postby Eileenla » Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:24 am

Good morning,

I just read this article and was eager to get some EU opinions on what it really means:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... gsurprise/
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Same Bubbles as near Earth...

Unread postby FS3 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:29 am

These seem to be the same "fizzy bubbles" -- only larger by scale -- that have been found by CLUSTER and Double Star TC-1 after 2005 in front of Earth's bow-shock, as has been explained in TPOD “Fizzy Bubbles” or Plasma Layers?...

Image

As you can read from Esa'a Site in case of the Earth's bow shock these bubbles are about 5,000 kms in diameter, while at the heliopause they extend about 1 AU, according to the latest Voyager data. - These figures may even give us an additional clue about the magnitudes involved out there - in comparison with the terrestric envirmonment...

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Re: Magnetic Bubbles at the edge of the heliosphere

Unread postby Dotini » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:48 am

Eileenla wrote:Good morning,

I just read this article and was eager to get some EU opinions on what it really means:

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... gsurprise/


Confusingly, this "Frothy Magnetic Bubbles" thread was started while another thread existed covering the same subject - "Magnetic Mayhem". There may be yet other threads also covering the same subject still out there. The Moderator may see fit to combine them.

Anyway, here are some additional important links from the other thread to consider:

http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-voy ... ayhem.html

http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... jan_ibex2/

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/ibex/ ... ndary.html

Now, I'm of course not a spokesperson for EU, but in my view these findings and discoveries of IBEX and Voyager are of major importance. For one thing, optical and radio astronomy observations may be affected by the activity or noise unexpectedly discovered to be going on at the heliosheath. Even the whole notion of cosmic microwave background radiation may have to be reconsidered. That in turn would undermine the idea of the expanding universe. Also we are being steered though the interstellar medium towards the constellation Scorpius.

The discovery of magnetic mayhem, electric current sheets, and folded/bubbled magnetic fields at the heliosheath is so astonishing, that despite receiving over 1000 views, the very smart and well-educated folks over at the physicsforum have been unable to muster as much as even one post in response! Perhaps they must wait until wikipedia or an acceptable mentor issues them an opinion. :P

I'm having fun with the idea of the "bubbles". It may be they are really plasma cells, each with their own membrane or sheath, organized together in a fashion which allows some other process, still undiscovered, to go about it's business.

Respectfully submitted,
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby allynh » Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:37 pm

I started to post this here in the Giant Ribbon thread and saw that there are two other threads that are discussing it. The moderators might combine these two threads into this one since they are building on the original Giant Ribbon discussion.

Magnetic Mayhem
http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... 661#p52747

Frothy Magnetic Bubbles.. ?
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4685#p53049

This is the PhysOrg article I saw.

A big surprise from the edge of the solar system: magnetic bubbles (w/ video)
http://www.physorg.com/news/2011-06-big-edge-solar.html
01.jpg

Old and new views of the heliosheath. Red and blue spirals are the gracefully curving magnetic field lines of orthodox models. New data from Voyager add a magnetic froth (inset) to the mix. Credit: NASA
02.jpg
03.jpg


(PhysOrg.com) -- NASA's Voyager probes are truly going where no one has gone before. Gliding silently toward the stars, 9 billion miles from Earth, they are beaming back news from the most distant, unexplored reaches of the solar system.

Mission scientists say the probes have just sent back some very big news indeed.

It's bubbly out there.

According to computer models, the bubbles are large, about 100 million miles wide, so it would take the speedy probes weeks to cross just one of them. Voyager 1 entered the "foam-zone" around 2007, and Voyager 2 followed about a year later. At first researchers didn't understand what the Voyagers were sensing--but now they have a good idea.

"The sun's magnetic field extends all the way to the edge of the solar system," explains Opher. "Because the sun spins, its magnetic field becomes twisted and wrinkled, a bit like a ballerina's skirt. Far, far away from the sun, where the Voyagers are now, the folds of the skirt bunch up."

When a magnetic field gets severely folded like this, interesting things can happen. Lines of magnetic force criss-cross, and "reconnect". (Magnetic reconnection is the same energetic process underlying solar flares.) The crowded folds of the skirt reorganize themselves, sometimes explosively, into foamy magnetic bubbles.

"We never expected to find such a foam at the edge of the solar system, but there it is!" says Opher's colleague, University of Maryland physicist Jim Drake.

Using a computer model based on Voyager data, scientists have shown that the sun's magnetic field becomes bubbly in the heliosheath due to reconnection. Credit: NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center

Theories dating back to the 1950s had predicted a very different scenario: The distant magnetic field of the sun was supposed to curve around in relatively graceful arcs, eventually folding back to rejoin the sun. The actual bubbles appear to be self-contained and substantially disconnected from the broader solar magnetic field.
Energetic particle sensor readings suggest that the Voyagers are occasionally dipping in and out of the foam—so there might be regions where the old ideas still hold. But there is no question that old models alone cannot explain what the Voyagers have found.
Says Drake: "We are still trying to wrap our minds around the implications of these findings."
1-abigsurprise.jpg

Magnetic bubbles at the edge of the solar system are aboout 100 million miles wide--similar to the distance between Earth and the Sun. Credit: NASA

The structure of the sun's distant magnetic field—foam vs. no-foam—is of acute scientific importance because it defines how we interact with the rest of the galaxy. Researchers call the region where the Voyagers are now "the heliosheath." It is essentially the border crossing between the Solar System and the rest of the Milky Way. Lots of things try to get across—interstellar clouds, knots of galactic magnetism, cosmic rays and so on. Will these intruders encounter a riot of bubbly magnetism (the new view) or graceful lines of magnetic force leading back to the sun (the old view)?
The case of cosmic rays is illustrative. Galactic cosmic rays are subatomic particles accelerated to near-light speed by distant black holes and supernova explosions. When these microscopic cannonballs try to enter the solar system, they have to fight through the sun's magnetic field to reach the inner planets.

Computer simulation of the magnetic reconnection in the heliosheath.

"The magnetic bubbles appear to be our first line of defense against cosmic rays," points out Opher. "We haven't figured out yet if this is a good thing or not."
On one hand, the bubbles would seem to be a very porous shield, allowing many cosmic rays through the gaps. On the other hand, cosmic rays could get trapped inside the bubbles, which would make the froth a very good shield indeed.

So far, much of the evidence for the bubbles comes from the Voyager energetic particle and flow measurements. Proof can also be obtained from the Voyager magnetic field observations and some of this data is also very suggestive. However, because the magnetic field is so weak, the data takes much longer to analyze with the appropriate care. Thus, unraveling the magnetic signatures of bubbles in the Voyager data is ongoing.

"We'll probably discover which is correct as the Voyagers proceed deeper into the froth and learn more about its organization," says Opher. "This is just the beginning, and I predict more surprises ahead."

Provided by JPL/NASA (news : web)


A Big Surprise from the Edge of the Solar System
http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/sc ... gsurprise/

ScienceCasts: Big Surprise
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUt6mRDV5hY
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EU stance on magnetic bubbles encircling solar system?

Unread postby Zeitguy13 » Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:51 pm

I just read an article that NASA has discovered magnetic "bubbles" at the edge of the solar system. The article quoted a nasa scientist who described how the suns magnetic field is distorted because of the suns rotation, using an analogy to a twirling skirt getting bunched up at the ends. I am not sure skirts even bunch up when twirled, and am less convinced that magnetic fields could be altered to such a degree by the slow turning sun. I don't know much about magnetic fields though, was hoping some of you would like to tackle this and share any hypotheses as to what this shield can reveal. It looks like a series of paired polarities kind of how a hexagon forms honey-comb. Thanx

Link to the article with a picture of magnetic signature:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/10/nasa-voyager-bubbles-solar-system-heliosphere_n_874733.html
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Re: Giant Ribbon Discovered at Edge of Solar System

Unread postby Dotini » Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:37 am

http://www.planetary.org/news/2011/0612 ... _Huge.html

Interesting speculation that these magnetic bubble structures may be responsible for anomalous cosmic rays.
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