Electric Sun

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Electric Sun

Unread postby Siggy_G » Fri Oct 09, 2009 8:23 am

I've raised this question earlier in the forum, but don't think I got a definite answer. Also, I've now made a few illustrations to visualize my point.

While I find the electric sun model interesting and plausible, there is one thing I find unanswered. If the Sun receives electric energy externally, being a focal point for Birkeland currents distributed through the galaxy - why don't we see more of an interference effect from the radiating energy from the Sun, and the received energy? I.e. the plasma and photons emitted by the Sun, would presumably interfere or react upon the galactic plasma that is distributed onto the Sun.

Conceptual lines of the Birkeland currents, which focus into a z-pinch:

z-pinch_01.gif


The result is spherically focused and illuminating matter:

z-pinch_sun_01.gif


The radiating Sun (The received energy is focused and distributed internally. Its matter imposed by enough electrical stress for the matter to illuminate evenly.):

sun_radiant_01.jpg
sun_radiant_01.jpg (28.56 KiB) Viewed 28815 times


But the two processes/streams ought to give an interference effect (more than just on the surface?):

z-pinch_sun_interference.gif


How does the Electric Sun model approach this?
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby Osmosis » Fri Oct 09, 2009 11:38 pm

Is the solar corona the interaction zone? :D
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby Siggy_G » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:33 pm

Osmosis wrote:Is the solar corona the interaction zone? :D


It certainly seems to be a central part of it. However, I'm not sure how the approaching z-pinch would look like, if it varies at any time, or if the Birkeland currents have few or numerous "attack points". Well, maybe the corona visually indicates exactly that, at any given time... (electric turbolence due plasma interaction)
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby allynh » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:59 pm

You need to adjust your model, the sphere of the sun is not at the pinch point the way you show it. You've got the sphere right in the throat of the z-pinch. Remember, there is a torus of material where energy is stored.

I can never find anything on this web site when I want to, but here is what I've found so far.

Solar_plasmoid.jpg

This image is from the article:

15 February 2007
Global Warming in a Climate of Ignorance
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=aapprbh6

The article discusses the shape of the sun and has some nice images that you can build on. See if that helps to refine your illustration. I'm very interested to see you expand on what you have.

Thanks...
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby earls » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:31 pm

Image
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Oct 11, 2009 4:51 pm

* My understanding is that plasma streams move through space as tubular shapes and all along the tube on the outside are magnetic fields shaped like tire tubes. Imagine a long hose going through the centers of many little tire tubes. If the electric current in the plasma stream gets too strong, I think it increases the magnetic field at that point enough to pinch the plasma stream shut. Like water running into a dam on a stream, the plasma behind the pinch builds up, forming a ball of plasma. So the ball forms behind the pinch, or dam, not in the pinch, or dam. Electrical, magnetic and gravitational forces behind the pinch, form the plasma into the ball shape.
* Often, several or many pinches form along a plasma stream, forming as many plasma balls, which may continue moving in a linear motion for some time, like a string of lights, or may go into orbital motions. I suppose it depends on the relative charge on each of the balls of plasma, or whether they encounter a larger ball, like the Saturn System, when it encountered the Sun. As charge decreases, gravitational forces may become strong enough to bring about the orbital motions. Si?
* As Michael Gmirkin quotes Thornhill in a sister thread, Stars Formed Like Beads on a Plasma String!, at viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2472, And in laboratory z-pinch experiments, the plasma tends to form a number of “beads” along the axis (see HH34 above), which “scatter like buckshot” once the discharge subsides. [ http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=7y7d3dn5 ]. I guess the scattering is due to electrical repulsion of like charges. However, unlike lab experiments, I don't think the discharge does subside in space, at least not for a long time, so there may not be very similar scattering.
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby allynh » Sun Oct 11, 2009 7:03 pm

Here is a video from NASA.

NASA | Sentinels of the Heliosphere
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AqRQ_93k ... r_embedded

The video starts near earth then pulls outside the heliopause. Any EU model has to account for all the observed parts of the solar system and have it fit.

The article that Lloyd linked to is another great example of what must be in any illustration. We need to see the Birkeland currents, z-pinch, etc…, and have the observed parts of the solar system fit. I don't know how close the z-pinch you are trying to draw even comes to the solar system, much less getting near the sun.

This is one picture from the article.

Planetary Nebula small.jpg


I read the article, but I can't be sure from the picture if that is a sun being formed in the "stellar pinch". If it is, then the scale makes the whole picture smaller than the orbit of Venus, and that's not possible because we can't resolve images of other star systems that close. The "stellar pinch" the picture talks about must contain the whole solar system including the heliopause. All these questions have to be answered in any illustration or video, and I have yet to see something as clear as the NASA video.

If you can put something together that can let me "see" the EU stuff in action, that would be great.

Thanks...
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:28 am

allynh said:
I read the article, but I can't be sure from the picture if that is a sun being formed in the "stellar pinch". If it is, then the scale makes the whole picture smaller than the orbit of Venus, and that's not possible because we can't resolve images of other star systems that close.


Think the picture that you're referring to is actually a graphic of an existing planetary nebula. It may not be entirely appropriate as an exact representation of say- our solar system. for instance- the plasma in this planetary nebula is in glow mode.
I know that the interstellar plasma that the theory states connects us with the rest of the galaxy is supposed to be in dark current mode (vs the glow mode discharge in the picture), but that is about all I know about it at that point.

As for what our solar circuit looks like- I have seen the diagrams that denote the 'circuit' composition for entire galaxies... but I don't think I've ever seen one for a planetary system. :\

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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Oct 12, 2009 10:43 am

* This TPOD http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/ ... icmask.htm from last year said:
...plasma scientists [describe] plasma discharge instabilities: “string of pearls,” “beads on a string,” “feathers,” and “mask.” In plasma discharge terms, the evenly spaced “beading” along spiraling arms is a perfect example, but of the “pinch effect” that, in plasma cosmology, gives birth to stars. In a more familiar setting, the same plasma pinch produces the oft-observed beading of lightning.

1. Ball lightning - this may be a time exposure[?]:
Image
2.
Plasma ball generated in the laboratory to investigate ball lightning — lasted 0.16 seconds:

Image
3. Plasma in the lab with several plasma balls on filaments:
Image
4. As an aside, this isn't relevant, but it's interesting; here's triple & quadrupel channel lightning. I don't think it's an image processing error; I guess it could be a moving time exposure[?].
Image
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby MGmirkin » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:53 pm

Siggy_G:

Okay, there seems to be a lot of personal conjecture going on here, as seems apparent on the forum without active moderation...

My suggestion: go back to the source material. Get comfy with it. ;)

In this case, go back to the beginning, or near the beginning (of the Holoscience news archive):

(A Mystery Solved - Welcome to the Electric Universe!)
http://www.holoscience.com/news/mystery_solved.html

(Voyager 1 at the Edge – of what?)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=0yfteeje

(Voyager Probes the Sun's Electrical Environment)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=55fx8yeh

(THE SUN — Our Variable Star)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=by2r22xg

Near the Sun, galactic transmission lines are in the form of 0.3 parsecs wide rotating Birkeland filaments (based on those detected at the center of the Milky Way). Their motion relative to the Sun will produce a slowly varying magnetic field and current density –' in other words a solar activity cycle. To that extent, all stars are variable. And just like real estate, location is vital.


From google:
0.3 Parsecs = 61,879.4419 Astronomical Units
1 Parsec = 206,264.806 Astronomical Units
3 Parsecs = 618,794.419 Astronomical Units

one Astronomical Unit = 92,955,887.6 miles (149,598,000 kilometers)

For reference:

Pluto is about 39.53 AU from the sun.
Voyager 1 hit the "termination shock" at 94 AU from the sun. Voyager 2 hit the "termination shock" at 76 AU from the sun. (The solar system isn't perfectly spherical, apparently. Go figure, it's a bit like a tear drop, not unlike planetary & cometary plasma sheaths [magnetospheres]).
The "heliopause" is estimated to lie at about 110-170 AU from the sun.
The "bow shock" is thought to be at around 230+ AU from the sun.

So the solar system is somewhere on the order of 500 AU across?

500 AU is ~46,477,943,800 miles (74,799,000,000 kilometers)

The diameter of the sun is appx. 864,327 miles (1,391,000 kilometers)

So the heliosphere has about 53,733 x the diameter of the sun.

And the Birkeland currents, at a very roughly guesstimated 61,879 AU are about 123.75 x the diameter of the heliosphere.

If I understand Thornhill correctly, he's saying that there may be entwined Birkeland currents on that order of magnitude OUTSIDE the heliosphere (not sure at what distance from the heliosphere or from each other or how many, though for simplicity's sake one would guess two, not unlike twisted pair copper wire, just replacing the mm. sized wire with 0.3 parsec sized plasma "transmission lines").

So, it's not like you've got the sun with just a piddly little current sticking out the top of it and continuing at the same diameter as the sun once it gets OUTSIDE the heliosphere. Inside the heliosphere is another matter, it seems like there's a wholly different internal structure to the helisphere from that OUTSIDE the heliosphere. In any event, the OUTSIDE part of the model is composed of these massive (but low-density) entwined currents. With the heliosphere stuck somewhere in the middle and much, much, much smaller... The heliopause then acts as a plasma sheath / Double Layer and collecting plate for electrons from without, channeling them inside the heliosphere (accelerated by the DL's electric field) to fuel the inward drift current.

WITHIN the heliosphere (within the Sun's plasma sheath), you've apparently got structures like the heliospheric current sheet that runs equatorially throughout the solar system out to the heliopause. You've most likely got a structure over the poles of the sun that form the other part of the heliospheric circuit.

[Image]

This image is from Don's book The Electric Sky. It mainly describes the region at or close to the sun. But you can see the proposed structure with collimated currents over the poles, and an equatorial current (in the form of the the solar wind / heliospheric current sheet). Though while most of the current may flow there, the overall drift is spherical (IE, the current flows in from all direction, perhaps just slightly stronger equatorially / and at the poles?)...

All that's WITHIN the heliosphere. Which Thornhill says functions like a spherical glow discharge tube... Though rather than having a metal cathode, it instead has a "virtual cathode" at the outer reaches. Likewise the positive column glow vanishes due to the extremely low current density throughout most of the spherical (rather than linear) volume. Then you've got things like the smaller scale "magnetic flux ropes" (Birkeland currents) connecting the Sun and the Earth (powering Earth's auroras). "Electric tornadoes in space" @ Earth. "Magnetic tornadoes in space" @ Mercury. The "million+ Ampere flux tube" between Io and Jupiter. All sorts of fun. Planets, moons, asteroid and comets generally fill the roles of minor physical cathodes in the glow discharge model, whereas the sun fills the role of the central stressed anode.

And on we go. Plenty to consider, I suppose.

Best,
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby Siggy_G » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:13 am

Thanks for valuable feedback from each of you. Michael: plenty of factors to consider, no doubt. According to the EU model, the incoming Birkeland currents were way larger than my initial impression. It could also be that the incoming plasma is of such low density outside the Sun, that the presumed interference between incoming and radiating energy is of less significance.

According to this website (advanced simulators), the z-pinch has a highly 3d nature, and even appears to have an internal structure of density regions. As a loose parallel to the EU solar system, the Sun is at the center, and helipause in the outer regions of such a z-pinch. The low density regions in the middle section (around the center) could be the rest of the solar system.

http://www.sandia.gov/NNSA/ASC/enews/09 ... pinch.html

However, how gigantic twisting Birkeland current results in a focal axis forming a central stressed star, still needs some better visualization... Remember that the Electric Sun model needs to be presented to people with less insight into EU theory than the ones circling in and out of this forum :) In order for that to happen with success, there needs to be an empirical presentation (i.e. empirical from EU and plasma physics, not from standard cosmology) and visualizations of each order of magnitude of the model. The material presented so far, is still fragmented and somewhat difficult to grasp as a layered, but unified, model.

It is interesting though, that a star is just a tiny grain in the middle of such large galactical Birkeland currents. How the same principal applies to galaxies, is even trickier to visualize (i.e. their shape and placement), but still plausible. I'm sure experiments with dusty plasma will shed further light on this model.
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby allynh » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:00 pm

I second what Siggy_G is saying, we need to have clear illustrations, and ultimately videos like the NASA video before we can get anywhere. I've always had problems with math descriptions in words only. In math class the teacher would start doing word problems, and he'd lose me. A train leaves New York going to Chicago…, total blank on my part, yet I did become a Civil Engineer solving matrix algebra with no hesitation. I just can't "see" word problems, that's why I love the big slide show e-books like Sun and Comet. Show me with pictures, not with words.

I've read through the links MGmirkin listed and I still can't see what is happening.

If I understand Thornhill correctly, he's saying that there may be entwined Birkeland currents on that order of magnitude OUTSIDE the heliosphere (not sure at what distance from the heliosphere or from each other or how many, though for simplicity's sake one would guess two, not unlike twisted pair copper wire, just replacing the mm. sized wire with 0.3 parsec sized plasma "transmission lines").


- Is each wire 0.3 parsecs or is the twisted pair 0.3 parsecs.

- Would it be right to look at the heliosphere as a bubble like the novelty plasma balls. If so, how would that bubble fit within the twisted pair.

From the articles, and what MGmirkin is saying, I get the impression that the earth is contained in a plasma ball. That each planet is a plasma ball connected by twisted pair to the Sun. The whole solar system is in a plasma ball that is emmbeded in a galactic twisted pair. And the galaxy is in a plasma ball that is emmbeded in the intergalactic twisted pair.

If that is the case it should be possible to show that in a video. We just need to understand what scale each plasma ball is to each twisted pair, and how they hook up. That is what is not clear from any of the various articles or TPODs.
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby nick c » Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:32 am

Here is a way of thinking of the Sun. When we say the word "Sun," we think of that yellow sphere which brightens our daytime sky, however that is in effect the central part of the Sun. Most of the "Sun" is plasma in dark mode, as we move to the center we start to encounter plasmas in glow and arc mode. The Earth and sister planets are inside the Sun. The Sun's outer boundary extends to the heliopause. That is where there is much to be learned.
Some thoughts on modeling the heliopause (and thereby getting a more complete picture of the Sun,) from Donald Scott's The Electric Sky pp148-9:
Scott wrote:...the entire solar system resides within the Sun's heliosphere.
[...]
A precise description of the structure of the heliopause boundary of the Sun's plasma is still unknown.
[...]
Given their present antipathy toward any electric plasma ideas, it is questionable whether NASA astronomers will make electrical measurements to determine the existence of a double layer at the heliopause.
[...]
We must infer what we can from the few reports that are released. It may well be that the Pioneer vehicles are not equipped to make such measurements.

highlight added

Plasmas are complicated and not easy to model, hence the name plasma - meaning life like or read that as- difficult to predict. We are used to precise astronomical and cosmological models based on gravity only assumptions exhibiting "elegant" equations, so I would suppose that it is difficult for scientists to discard this illusion of precision and take the step into the wild and wooly plasma universe. But scientists are supposed to be explorers of a sort, are they not? EU theorists have come up with some basic, rudimentary modeling, but as you can see from the above quotes much needed data is yet to be gathered and the best source, space probes, are controlled by people who see no need to gather that data. Discoveries and support for the EU usually comes by chance or are interpreted from NASA releases that are couched in a metaphorical language composed of mechanical interpretations (or misinterpretations) of electrical phenomena.
Scott wrote:Clearly, present day astronomers are still immersed in their non-electrical, fluid-flow nomenclature of "surfing," "bow-shocks," and "bubbles." No wonder observation of increased cosmic rays seems "bizarre," and again we see the use of phrases such as "to our total amazement."


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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby junglelord » Wed Oct 14, 2009 11:49 am

To me, at this point, the electric sun looks like a four wave mixer, phase conjugate system.
Two pumps beams enter at the poles. The original beam and the phase conjugate moving in and out from the equator respectively. Clearly a four wave mixer. Clearly a phase conjuagate system, with longitutinal em going to and coming from the equator, instantly, from the galactic center.
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Re: Electric Sun

Unread postby allynh » Thu Oct 15, 2009 8:37 am

This image from a *TPOD offers many examples of what I'm talking about.

090325nebula small.jpg


Beautiful pictures, but what is the scale. How big are they. How do the twisted pairs tie into these structures. Where does the plasma ball fit in.

To have the pictures is great, they make the case for EU rather than gravity, but there needs to be a clear illustration describing what we are looking at, not just beautiful prose.

*Oct 14, 2009
Which Nebula is Real?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2009/ ... nebula.htm
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