The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

Moderators: bboyer, MGmirkin

Locked

User avatar
Zyxzevn
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Sat Dec 07, 2019 1:03 pm

BecomingTesla wrote:Some really interesting notes from the one of those articles: https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-03665-3
They show that the solar wind near the Sun is much more structured and dynamic than it is at Earth (Fig. 1). Bale et al. present measurements of the direction and strength of the Sun’s magnetic field, which is dragged out into space by the solar wind. The authors find rapid reversals in the direction of the field that last for only minutes. Although some similar magnetic structures have been seen before, the large amplitude and the high occurrence rate of these reversals are surprising. In fact, the nature of these structures remains unknown.
Would these rapid reversals of in the direction of the field imply some form of alternating current moving through the solar wind?
I see these reversals in my plasma globe, especially if you interact with them.
This is great evidence for electrical currents around the sun.

Image
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

vardamango
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread post by vardamango » Mon Dec 16, 2019 8:26 am

I took this text from the NASA vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReQAUocScw0

I added some italicized comments.

The spacecraft confirmed that our picture of the Sun from Earth is deceptively simple.(i.e.wrong)

Here are 5 features Parker saw:

We’ve long known that space is full of cosmic dust.We can even see the dust from Earth, because it reflects sunlight. Parker saw evidence that the dust stops at an estimated 3 and a half million miles from the Sun. As the dust gets closer, the Sun vaporizes it, creating a dust-free zone surrounding the star.

- This indicates that the "dust" is moving toward the sun. Vaporizes? Would it be ionized? or part of the plasma? Are energetic particles streaming toward the sun?

At Earth, it appears that the magnetic field lines flow evenly out from the Sun, but Parker saw them behave in a surprising way. The magnetic field lines flip in a whip-like motion, turning 180 degrees around in a matter of seconds.

- This would be exactly what plasma physics would predict and refers to them as "kinks" as in a toy plasma ball.

These switchbacks (kinks) came in clusters, and were timed with fast-moving clumps of plasma in the solar wind.

Scientists have long wondered if the solar wind is generated as a continuous flow or in spurts. We now see evidence that the solar wind has rough, irregular texture. The plasma within it also seems to lack an orderly sense of direction. Some clumps of solar material fire out into space while others fall back toward the Sun. These clumps may be distorting the magnetic field, causing the switchbacks.(kinks)

They may also be an indicator of what the solar wind looks like in its early stages after its birth on the Sun.
Parker found a transition point in the solar wind.The corona is the Sun’s faint, outermost layer that transitions to the solar wind.

Before Parker, scientists knew that the corona rotates with the visible surface below it but they didn’t know how — or where -- the solar wind switched to flowing straight by the time it reaches Earth.
Parker has finally spotted signs of this transition —and the changeover happens significantly further out than expected.

Although the Sun has been very quiet over the first two orbits,Parker observed several tiny bursts of solar energetic particles.While these events have been seen before — never ones this small.The fast-moving particles from these modest bursts spread out as they move from the Sun, making them undetectable from Earth.

Without Parker’s front row seat, we would never know that the Sun is regularly producing these small-scale events. Fast-moving particles are a source of dangerous radiation.
A white dwarf headed for a black hole. That's physics. It's inevitable

User avatar
nick c
Moderator
Posts: 2483
Joined: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:12 pm
Location: connecticut

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread post by nick c » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:00 am

Donald Scott: Parker Solar Probe and the Electric Sun | Space News:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZrGecD ... e=youtu.be

User avatar
Solar
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:05 am

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar mod

Unread post by Solar » Wed Dec 18, 2019 8:47 pm

Parker Solar Probe (PSP) observations during its first encounter at 35.7 R⊙ have shown the presence of magnetic field lines which are strongly perturbed to the point that they produce local inversions of the radial magnetic field, known as switchbacks. Their counterparts in the solar wind velocity field are local enhancements in the radial speed, or jets, displaying (in all components) the velocity-magnetic field correlation typical of large amplitude Alfvén waves propagating away from the Sun. Switchbacks and radial jets have previously been observed over a wide range of heliocentric distances by Helios, WIND and Ulysses, although they were prevalent in significantly faster streams than seen at PSP. Here we study via numerical MHD simulations the evolution of such large amplitude Alfvénic fluctuations by including, in agreement with observations, both a radial magnetic field inversion and an initially constant total magnetic pressure. Despite the extremely large excursion of magnetic and velocity fields, switchbacks are seen to persist for up to hundreds of Alfvén crossing times before eventually decaying due to the parametric decay instability. Our results suggest that such switchback/jet configurations might indeed originate in the lower corona and survive out to PSP distances, provided the background solar wind is sufficiently calm, in the sense of not being pervaded by strong density fluctuations or other gradients, such as stream or magnetic field shears, that might destabilize or destroy them over shorter timescales.- MAGNETIC FIELD KINKS AND FOLDS IN THE SOLAR WIND: Anna Tenerani et al
The “switchbacks” are probably Alfvén S-waves:

The closer one gets to the Sun the more often they occur. Good info in that doc. So, it's more so how a filament might be induced to 'undulate', or 'wiggle' for some distance along its length.
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

User avatar
Solar
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:05 am

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Solar » Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:50 am

Here are two videos, courtesy of NCAR & UCAR Science, of Alfvén waves. In the first vid; the S-shaped 'curl' of Alfvén S-Waves are barely visible on the right-hand images propagating along the filament as fast moving "kinks" or "knots". They resemble tightly curled Sigmoids propagating along the filament axis. In the 2nd vid it *appears* as though a "switchback" has formed a relatively stationary "island" in the upper left while simultaneously the very same Alfvén waves induce the very subtle 'waving' motion in the 'streams' overall. This (at least to me) shows the difference between a region with a 'normal' Alfvénic wave velocity versus the "impulsive" accelerated "spikes" attributed to inducing these knots, curls, kinks, "folds" etc along the filament axis:

Alfvén waves in motion - NCAR solar heating research - Movie 2

Alfvén waves in motion - NCAR solar heating research - Movie 3

Interestingly enough, Figures 3 and Figure 7 of the MHD simulation referenced earlier has good representation but then again - these have been detected before. The PSP is said to have detected approximately 1,000 such events. Astrophysicist are looking for the cause of the "solar heating problem" and suspect Alfvén waves. It will be interesting to see if the AW's can be correlated with events on the solar surface; that is one of the efforts. Personally, it would be even more interesting if they were a result of radial Solar oscillations. That would be fascinating.

Existence of Electromagnetic-Hydrodynamic Wave: H. ALFVÉN 1942
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

vardamango
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:47 pm

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by vardamango » Sun Dec 22, 2019 8:34 am

Very interesting paper and title. MAGNETIC FIELD KINKS AND FOLDS IN THE SOLAR WIND

Apparently the term "switchback" is a zigzag road leading up the side of a mountain. Using a static road to describe something moving seems a little bit of a stretch to me, especially when the term kink has been used in plasma physics for decades. The paper you linked also used turbulence which would seem fitting also.

I don't know if you had an opportunity to watch the original video I posted but the video has a rather good animation of the stream "kinking" at 1:26.

https://youtu.be/ReQAUocScw0?t=85

This pattern resembles the plasma balls and seems the more likely candidate than counter rotation. imho
Solar wrote:
Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:50 am
In the 2nd vid it *appears* as though a "switchback" has formed a relatively stationary "island" in the upper left while simultaneously the very same Alfvén waves induce the very subtle 'waving' motion in the 'streams' overall. This (at least to me) shows the difference between a region with a 'normal' Alfvénic wave velocity versus the "impulsive" accelerated "spikes" attributed to inducing these knots, curls, kinks, "folds" etc along the filament axis:

Alfvén waves in motion - NCAR solar heating research - Movie 2

Alfvén waves in motion - NCAR solar heating research - Movie 3
I see what you mean. Somewhat reminiscent of an eddy in a river.
A white dwarf headed for a black hole. That's physics. It's inevitable

User avatar
Solar
Posts: 1372
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:05 am

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Solar » Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:13 pm

Agreed. The “kinks” actually propagate longitudinally along the axis of the magnetic field "line" (the current channel) while the Probe traverses such regions at some angle in its orbit - so they move relative to one another as opposed to the kink being portrayed as ‘static’. On top of that NASA’s press release explains the propagation of these Alfvén S-Waves in the opposite fashion as moving “over” the probe:
These reversals — dubbed "switchbacks" — last anywhere from a few seconds to several minutes as they flow over Parker Solar Probe. During a switchback, the magnetic field whips back on itself until it is pointed almost directly back at the Sun. - NASA’s Parker Solar Probe Sheds New Light on the Sun
Apparently the assumption is that people already realize that the motions are relative to one another. Here is the isolated "switchback" cartoon all by itself: Parker Solar Probe Switchbacks Flythrough

When PSP decided not to go to the poles I lost interest in this mission awhile ago. However, this latest finding is impressive. Didn’t realize that this earlier referenced doc already shows the correlation:

Highly structured slow solar wind emerging from an equatorial coronal hole S. D. Bale et al (fantastic doc: shortcut; scroll all the way to the very end)

“Jets” initiated in equatorial Coronal Holes. These“jets” are normally associated with the Sun's “Polar Coronal Jets". Rolling the clock back to 2007-2008:

Article: NASA - Twisting Solar Jets in STEREO - June 2007

Video: Twisting Solar Jets in STEREO 2008

Paper: STEREO/SECCHI Stereoscopic Observations Constraining the Initiation of Polar Coronal Jets - S. Patsourakos et al

Just open a Coronal Hole somewhere along the Sun's equator and the "jets" (the initiation of electric currents) will still occur inducing a higher density "velocity spike" that will temporarily "fold" the current channel into an S-shape along its length. Makes one curious about 'micro-events' and coalescing Solar Spicules.

I think I like the "eddy" analogy better though; fast moving longitudinal "eddies".
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden

Michael Mozina
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Fri Dec 27, 2019 12:45 pm

Solar wrote:
Sun Dec 22, 2019 2:13 pm
Apparently the assumption is that people already realize that the motions are relative to one another. Here is the isolated "switchback" cartoon all by itself: Parker Solar Probe Switchbacks Flythrough
The mainstream constantly attempts to "dumb down" electromagnetism to "magnetism" alone, intentionally leaving out the current flow process that generates the magnetic field. The "magnetic switchback" is a prime example of that irrational behavior. Instead of acknowledging and describing the current flow pattern changes that drive these different N/S magnetic field alignments, they simply try to ignore the current flow patterns entirely and chalk the whole thing up to magic magnetic lines that do magical things for breakfast, lunch and dinner. Oy Vey.

jacmac
Posts: 596
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by jacmac » Fri Dec 27, 2019 10:01 pm

From NASA video:
We’ve long known that space is full of cosmic dust.We can even see the dust from Earth, because it reflects sunlight. Parker saw evidence that the dust stops at an estimated 3 and a half million miles from the Sun. As the dust gets closer, the Sun vaporizes it, creating a dust-free zone surrounding the star.
vardamango:
- This indicates that the "dust" is moving toward the sun. Vaporizes? Would it be ionized? or part of the plasma? Are energetic particles streaming toward the sun?
It would seem so.
And, this would reduce the amount of already charged particles necessary for the sun to operate. IMO.

Michael Mozina
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:20 am

It's pretty clear from the first round of PSP papers that the mainstream is attempting to sweep the current flow processes and electric field measurements right under the rug. It's just sad.

What the hell is a "magnetic switchback" and how does one create such a thing in the lab? They're just making this up as they go.

User avatar
Zyxzevn
Posts: 1002
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Zyxzevn » Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:32 am

Michael Mozina wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:20 am
What the hell is a "magnetic switchback" and how does one create such a thing in the lab? They're just making this up as they go.
In their imagination, the magnetic field lines work like currents.. of magnetism.
Every time I ask they claim that plasma has this weird property of "sustaining or conducting magnetism",
unlike what we see in the laboratory.
It also does not work with the Earth's magnetic field, after millions of dollars of research, as expected.

In reality there are electric currents, with real world electrons and ions. Very common in plasma.
The switching of direction is common in electrical currents, due to resonance (LC).
This real-world model can be confirmed with the zeeman/stark effect or polarisations of the light.

The same bad science can be seen in explanations of superconductors (type 2).
Instead of modelling the circular currents that flow in the material, they pretend that the
magnetic fields caused these currents are something real.
These are called "fluxions'.
So there are all kinds of papers describing interactions of fluxions and other nonsense.

In similar sense some think that they can build quantum computers with fluxions, so
there are a lot of unicorns that eat up the research budgets.

I think that this nonsense has brought science backwards considerably.
has prevented us from discovering simple nuclear fusion (for example).
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@

Webbman
Posts: 533
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 10:49 am

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Webbman » Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:42 pm

so what about the dust free zone? anyone buying the "incineration" idea?
its all lies.

Michael Mozina
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Dec 30, 2019 1:36 am

Webbman wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 1:42 pm
so what about the dust free zone? anyone buying the "incineration" idea?
I guess it wouldn't surprise me that the region closest to the suns corona is the most heavily ionized (least dusty) region of the solar atmosphere since there is a higher density of high energy electrons, protons and photons traversing that region. In short it makes sense the least dusty plasma in the solar atmosphere will be the plasma closest to the corona since that's where all the high energy collisions are occurring.

Their claims about "magnetic switchbacks" however are ridiculous. The only reason the magnetic fields exist to begin with is because of current flow through the solar atmosphere, and the only possible way for them to be oriented in different directions is for the current to be flowing in different direction in different areas.

If you look at the concept of a single "coronal loop", it's current is oriented in an upwards direction as it leaves the photosphere, and it's oriented in the opposite direction when it's reentering the photosphere. That's why we see N/S alignments on the surface of the photosphere.

Michael Mozina
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Mt. Shasta, CA
Contact:

Re: The Parker Solar probe could help eliminate EU solar models.

Unread post by Michael Mozina » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:51 am

Zyxzevn wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 11:32 am
Michael Mozina wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 9:20 am
What the hell is a "magnetic switchback" and how does one create such a thing in the lab? They're just making this up as they go.
In their imagination, the magnetic field lines work like currents.. of magnetism.
Every time I ask they claim that plasma has this weird property of "sustaining or conducting magnetism",
unlike what we see in the laboratory.
It also does not work with the Earth's magnetic field, after millions of dollars of research, as expected.

In reality there are electric currents, with real world electrons and ions. Very common in plasma.
The switching of direction is common in electrical currents, due to resonance (LC).
This real-world model can be confirmed with the zeeman/stark effect or polarisations of the light.

The same bad science can be seen in explanations of superconductors (type 2).
Instead of modelling the circular currents that flow in the material, they pretend that the
magnetic fields caused these currents are something real.
These are called "fluxions'.
So there are all kinds of papers describing interactions of fluxions and other nonsense.

In similar sense some think that they can build quantum computers with fluxions, so
there are a lot of unicorns that eat up the research budgets.

I think that this nonsense has brought science backwards considerably.
has prevented us from discovering simple nuclear fusion (for example).
I would say that the first round of PSP papers confirms your criticisms. The whole concept of "magnetic switchbacks" is a great example of how they assume that magnetic "lines" act like currents. Every time they wish to try to sweep electrical current under the rug they quite literally "invent" something from the realm of pure "magnetism" that acts, behaves and "simulates" what we'd expect to observe from current flow channels in plasma, and current carrying plasma. The "dumbing down" process has become intrinsic to their methodology, yet it requires an ever increasing "magic bag" of magnetic field tricks that simply do not exist in nature. It was bad enough they've been trying to get magnetic topology lines to "reconnect", but now they've got so called 'lines' doing things that simply defy logic and common sense and do *not* do any such thing in the lab. They are quite literally making it up as they go and only to avoid embracing the reality of electrical currents in space at all costs, even at the cost of their own scientific reputations.

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests