The Safire Project - More out then in?

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Re: The Safire Project - More out then in?

Unread postby Metryq » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:50 am

antosarai wrote:
nick c wrote:(snip) Labeling the "Universe" as a perpetual motion machine...

I didn't mean to label the "Universe" as anything. What I was asking, and still am, is: Does the cosmological model of the Electrodynamic Electric Universe as proposed comply, or does it not, with the Second Law of Thermodynamics?

PC/EU explains much of what we see based on known physics—without resorting to metaphysical mumbo-jumbo. When the universe began and other "ultimate" questions are simply never even raised. We just don't know, and ultimate questions are always for tomorrow. (It may be beyond human understanding, but we'll ask anyway.) Some people can't stand "not knowing," and so will lean towards world views that give them even a false sense of finality or closure (e.g. Isolated stars that burn all on their own for billions of years).

The Second Law of Thermodynamics is yet another machine analogy—designed to explain steam engines in a very Earthly environment—blown up to "ultimate" proportions. What is the Prime Mover in an Electric Universe? We don't know, but that does not alter the fact that circuits exist over a cosmic scale, and current flows. The universe is already bigger than we can imagine without dulling Occam's razor with "outsides" to infinity, time before time, higher "dimensions," strings and 'branes filled with exotic (never observed) dark matter that bends, warps and twists "space itself."

One of my favorite metaphysical conundrums is antimatter. Theoretical physicists (an oxymoron) tie themselves into knots wondering where all the antimatter went that must have been formed in equal parts with matter during the Big Bang. We've been able to manufacture antimatter in small quantities (How would that be possible? Symmetry! Symmetry!), and now we know that it appears in mere Earthly lightning storms—and much bigger discharges are known just within the Solar system.

Current flows because the PC/EU model is well grounded. ;)
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Re: The Safire Project - More out then in?

Unread postby Solar » Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:11 am

antosarai wrote:
nick c wrote:(snip) Labeling the "Universe" as a perpetual motion machine...

I didn't mean to label the "Universe" as anything. What I was asking, and still am, is: Does the cosmological model of the Electrodynamic Electric Universe as proposed comply, or does it not, with the Second Law of Thermodynamics?


When curious to know what the EU hypothesis says about something both the Holoscience website, and its sister site Thunderbolts.info, have a "Search" box that facilitates searching the 'official' interpretive commentary of said hypothesis. Hopefully the following is somewhat helpful:

The extraordinary high temperature of Venus was perhaps one of Velikovsky’s most outrageous and successful predictions. In his “Challenge to Conventional Views in Science” delivered at the symposium, “Velikovsky’s Challenge to Science,” held in San Francisco on February 25, 1974, under the auspices of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, Velikovsky said:

“I may have even caused retardation in the development of science by making some opponents cling to their unacceptable views only because such views may contradict Velikovsky — like sticking to the completely unsupportable hypothesis of greenhouse effect as the cause of Venus’ heat, even in violation of the Second Law of Thermodynamics.

The second law of thermodynamics is a general principle, which places constraints upon the direction of heat transfer. To maintain the high surface temperature of Venus there should be no net flow of heat through the atmosphere. However, when the Pioneer Venus probes looked at the amount of radiant energy passing through the atmosphere, each one found more energy being radiated up from the lower atmosphere than enters it as sunlight. And, if this were not enough, the night probe site was shown to be about 2K warmer than it was at the day probe site. The Russian probes, Vega 1 and 2, also “recorded a pronounced upward radiation flux.” These findings simply show that Venus’ surface is hot and still cooling. - Holoscience: Venus isn't our Twin


The stellar atmosphere modelling of a white dwarf based on thermodynamic equilibrium will give erroneous conclusions because charged particles in an electric field will be dethermalized (their random motion reduced while their kinetic energy increases). So it easy for a white dwarf to multiply ionize calcium atoms because the electrical energy required is equivalent to a mere 211 electron volts and not random thermal energy equal to a temperature of 200,000 to 300,000 K. Using thermal (mechanical) energy is the most difficult and unlikely way of explaining the data. - Holoscience: NASA's Dim View of Stars


Plasma cosmologists show that the visible universe is threaded with cosmic power lines, known as Birkeland currents. Their origin beyond the visible universe is a mystery. This electrical power source renders thermodynamic arguments about the age of the visible universe and its fate invalid. The visible universe is not a closed system. - Holoscience: The True State of the Universe


The humorous but sadly apt inversion, ‘I’ll see it when I believe it,’ seems to apply to the interpretation of results relayed to Earth from all four Pioneer lander probes as their radiometers began to give anomalous results as they descended through the atmosphere.

“Taken at face value, the anomalies suggest that parts of the atmosphere are transmitting about twice the energy upwards that is available from solar radiation at the same level.”
[Pioneer Venus, NASA Report SP-461, p. 127].

Despite the obvious interpretation that the laws of thermodynamics are not being violated and that, put simply, Venus is intrinsically damned hot and still cooling, the investigators are able to blandly state in the same paragraph:

“In spite of these difficulties in interpreting some of the observations, the greenhouse effect, coupled with global dynamics, is now well established as the basic explanation of the high surface temperature.”

This is merely consensus ignorance, not science. - Holoscience: The Shiny Mountains of Venus
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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Re: The Safire Project - More out then in?

Unread postby antimony » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:05 am

Solar wrote:
The question references the plasma related principle demonstrated by such works as:

Alexander V. CHERNETSKII: Self-Generating Discharge Plasmatron

I've not seen any indications that the Safire Experiment will investigate such matters.


I took a look at your link, and i found a related plasma device that a guy called Paulo Correa came up with that he calls PAGD (Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge) that he claims puts out more then he puts in.
I found a few of his patents on a site called http://www.aetherenergy.com/correa_patents.php

From what i have read, it is close to what the Safire project are reseaching.
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Re: The Safire Project - More out then in?

Unread postby Solar » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:27 am

antimony wrote:I took a look at your link, and i found a related plasma device that a guy called Paulo Correa came up with that he calls PAGD (Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharge) that he claims puts out more then he puts in.
I found a few of his patents on a site called http://www.aetherenergy.com/correa_patents.php

From what i have read, it is close to what the Safire project are reseaching.


Specifically, the Safire experiment aims to test the Electric Sun hypothesis via the basic premise of “Charged plasma affecting matter of a different electrical potential" as stated by Monty Childs @ 2:33 sec here:

… and I came to the conclusion that I think that the Electric Universe model is based on the principle of charged plasma affecting matter of a different electrical potential. - Montgomery Childs: SAFIRE Project Update | EU2016


Thank you Mjolnir for pointing that out.

Although I highly recommend Aetherometry, by all means read their patents, I've neither seen, nor heard, of any "more in than out"/"overunity" quest with regard to Safire. None at all. Aetherometry and Safire are not "close". Unless a specific Safire related reference to same can be cited apples and oranges are being mixed. Where is that reference??
"Our laws of force tend to be applied in the Newtonian sense in that for every action there is an equal reaction, and yet, in the real world, where many-body gravitational effects or electrodynamic actions prevail, we do not have every action paired with an equal reaction." — Harold Aspden
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