High-energy particles are extragalactic--Science Magazine

[kell1990]

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/357/6357/1266

"High-energy particles are extragalactic

"Cosmic rays are high-energy particles arriving from space; some have energies far beyond those that human-made particle accelerators can achieve. The sources of higher-energy cosmic rays remain under debate, although we know that lower-energy cosmic rays come from the solar wind. The Pierre Auger Collaboration reports the observation of thousands of cosmic rays with ultrahigh energies of several exa–electron volts (about a Joule per particle), arriving in a slightly dipolar distribution (see the Perspective by Gallagher and Halzen). The direction of the rays indicates that the particles originated in other galaxies and not from nearby sources within our own Milky Way Galaxy."

"Abstract

Cosmic rays are atomic nuclei arriving from outer space that reach the highest energies observed in nature. Clues to their origin come from studying the distribution of their arrival directions. Using 3 × 104 cosmic rays with energies above 8 × 1018 electron volts, recorded with the Pierre Auger Observatory from a total exposure of 76,800 km2 sr year, we determined the existence of anisotropy in arrival directions. The anisotropy, detected at more than a 5.2σ level of significance, can be described by a dipole with an amplitude of Embedded Image percent toward right ascension αd = 100 ± 10 degrees and declination δd = Embedded Image degrees. That direction indicates an extragalactic origin for these ultrahigh-energy particles."

The article is behind a paywall, but the abstract conveys the main idea. Maybe we are seeing the initial source of the power that drives the solar system and perhaps the Milky Way galaxy itself.

[comingfrom]

Now they left out their magnetism.

High energy baryons that come from the Sun to the earth, come in at the poles. We don't suppose they come from an extragalactic or extrasolar source because they come down into the north pole and up into the south pole, rather than in a direct line from the Sun.

Extragalactic cosmic rays will encounter the galaxy's magnetic field in the outer regions our galaxy's galactosphere, and get directed into the galactic core long before they can get to Sol.

How far is it to our nearest neighbour star? 4 light years? A particle 'riding' the magnetic fields from there to here is riding a particle accelerator of immense proportions, which makes the Hadron Collider look like a quantum particle by comparison. And I'd say there are some currents (called "magnetic fields lines" by mainstream) which connect Sol directly to the core as well, and that these are what will be carrying those super high kinetic energy cosmic rays.

Photons go in straight lines, but charged baryons follow magnetic fields, I don't care how energetic. I thought mainstream knows that.
Paul

[kell1990]

Now they left out their magnetism.

High energy baryons that come from the Sun to the earth, come in at the poles. We don't suppose they come from an extragalactic or extrasolar source because they come down into the north pole and up into the south pole, rather than in a direct line from the Sun.

I believe everyone here already knows that the Northern Lights and the Southern Lights are caused by plasma falling into the magnetic wells that exist near the North magnetic pole and the South magnetic pole.

Extragalactic cosmic rays will encounter the galaxy's magnetic field in the outer regions our galaxy's galactosphere, and get directed into the galactic core long before they can get to Sol.

And you know this how? I'd love to have some of the stuff you're smoking.

How far is it to our nearest neighbour star? 4 light years? A particle 'riding' the magnetic fields from there to here is riding a particle accelerator of immense proportions, which makes the Hadron Collider look like a quantum particle by comparison. And I'd say there are some currents (called "magnetic fields lines" by mainstream) which connect Sol directly to the core as well, and that these are what will be carrying those super high kinetic energy cosmic rays.

More nonsense. You can't possibly know this.

Photons go in straight lines, but charged baryons follow magnetic fields, I don't care how energetic. I thought mainstream knows that.
Paul

Obviously the rest of us aren't nearly as bright as you are.

[Cargo]

Plasma is a State of Matter. Space is a Field of 99.9% pure Plasma.

[comingfrom]

Kell1990

Extragalactic cosmic rays will encounter the galaxy's magnetic field in the outer regions our galaxy's galactosphere, and get directed into the galactic core long before they can get to Sol.

And you know this how? I'd love to have some of the stuff you're smoking.

Maybe it is a presumption, but I don't think it is that extravagant a presumption.
I only scaled up the plasma physics, from what we know in the lab, and in the Solar system.

And we know the galaxy has halo now, which I called the galactosphere.
We know galaxies have magnetic fields.
And we know baryon trajectories are affected by magnetic fields.

How far is it to our nearest neighbour star? 4 light years? A particle 'riding' the magnetic fields from there to here is riding a particle accelerator of immense proportions, which makes the Hadron Collider look like a quantum particle by comparison. And I'd say there are some currents (called "magnetic fields lines" by mainstream) which connect Sol directly to the core as well, and that these are what will be carrying those super high kinetic energy cosmic rays.

More nonsense. You can't possibly know this.

Again, these are simple logical deductions from what we already know.
And it is my speculation.

But if you can say what is nonsense about it...

Obviously the rest of us aren't nearly as bright as you are.

Not sure what you are meaning by that comment.

If you want to offer a correction, I am open to receiving correction.
Paul

[comingfrom]

Plasma is a State of Matter. Space is a Field of 99.9% pure Plasma.

Thank you Cargo.

I think of plasma as having two components, charge and baryons (or electrons, protons and atoms), due to their different orders of magnitude of size.
Some regions of space being much less dense in baryons, since charge, by the magnetic fields it creates, tends to gather the baryons into galaxies.

Paul

[comingfrom]

I'm taking your words on the chin, Kell,

and doing a full re examine.

Plasma balls are a good analogy, if only a partial one.
They put a gas in the ball which shows up the flows of charge photons.
The streams are not straight lines, and they are animated.
So we can imagine the charge streams flowing out from the center of the galaxy too.
The gas they put in the plasma ball isn't in the galaxy to make the streams visible and expose them to us,
but EU theory says they are there.
I believe they are there.
Sometimes there is enough gas to expose them, and we can see filaments in interstellar nebulae.
These animated streams are also flowing from the Sun to the planets.
Just like with the plasma ball, when the streams reach out to connect to and follow your fingertip on the glass,
so the galactic streams reach out from the core and connect to stars,
and the solar streams that reach out from the Sun connect to planets.

How the gas exposes the currents is simple. The atoms of gas spin up some the garden variety charge photons into the visible wavelength range, and so we get to see where the more dense streams of charge are.

I'm getting to the point I want to make. Because of the animate nature of charge flows, the point of connection doesn't necessarily indicate the direction of the source.
I've got a feeling you're going to say, but these are really super mega ultra high energy particles. Nothing is going to tell them where to go or divert them off their path. They are going go straight through anything, except maybe solid matter.
Well, to that I think, they are still only a proton, or an atom. In other words, not that massive.
And think of just how much magnetic field it has to pass through, to get to earth from its extragalactic source.
We are not talking a hundred thousand light years, but hundreds of thousands of light years.
I think we can safely assume the chances of an extragalatic particle striking the earth directly will be very very low.

After a full reconsideration, I'd say it is the mainstream article proposing nonsense as usual.
It falls to a little bit of critical thought, and applied basic scientific knowledge.

But it sounds so sexy.
Wow, extragalatic particles.
Problem is, getting carried away with a sexy idea will prevent them from considering more realistic options.

The other things I noticed was
a sort of surprise at finding out that the universe can far outdo what we humans can achieve.
HA, that makes me laugh.
That is followed by an admission that they don't actually know (its still under debate).
Then they make the claim, as if they know.
Their title already told us, as if it is fact.

Cheers
Paul

[kell1990]

Plasma is a State of Matter. Space is a Field of 99.9% pure Plasma.

Thank you. We already know that.

[kell1990]

"After a full reconsideration, I'd say it is the mainstream article proposing nonsense as usual.
It falls to a little bit of critical thought, and applied basic scientific knowledge.

But it sounds so sexy.
Wow, extragalatic particles.
Problem is, getting carried away with a sexy idea will prevent them from considering more realistic options.

The other things I noticed was
a sort of surprise at finding out that the universe can far outdo what we humans can achieve.
HA, that makes me laugh.
That is followed by an admission that they don't actually know (its still under debate).
Then they make the claim, as if they know.
Their title already told us, as if it is fact."


That is not what the article said. It said that they had located a source of high-energy particles from a specific location in the Universe. Had you bothered to read just the abstract, you'd have known that.

Instead, you launched off into a tirade against the article.

Just so that you'll know the entire Electric Universe theory is based on a source of power "of unknown origin." Now comes an article that presumes to locate a possible source of that power.
*****
I've read many of your posts and I am unimpressed with your intellectual prowess. If you think that Miles Mathis is right, then more power to you both. But pi will never be 4. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever!

****
I really detest being so rude, but in this case I think it is fully warranted.

[comingfrom]

Thank you, Kell.

I am willing to accept, I may need to be put in my place.

I showed my son your rebuke in this thread, and asked him, and he told me off too.
I say "we know this" too many times, he said, even though he knows what I meant by it, he said it sounds bad.
So I'll try to avoid that in future.
I should have been saying "mainstream science now knows" instead.

That is not what the article said. It said that they had located a source of high-energy particles from a specific location in the Universe. Had you bothered to read just the abstract, you'd have known that.

I did read the abstract.

Clues to their origin come from studying the distribution of their arrival directions.

Clues. That's all they got, by their own admission.

And then they say how they got them. Arrival directions.

I was trying to show some reasons why "arrival directions" can not be considered reliable.

Instead, you launched off into a tirade against the article.

Do you post and hope not to get a response?

I'm sorry if you don't appreciate my comments.
And I don't expect everyone to agree.
In fact, I'd like to hear your correction, if you see me speak a nonsense.
Intellectual prowess comes from receiving correction.

Just so that you'll know the entire Electric Universe theory is based on a source of power "of unknown origin." Now comes an article that presumes to locate a possible source of that power.

I don't think so.
They are talking of a source for some high energy cosmic rays they found.

I've read many of your posts and I am unimpressed with your intellectual prowess. If you think that Miles Mathis is right, then more power to you both. But pi will never be 4. Not today, not tomorrow, not ever!

You could just skip past my posts, if you want.

Mathis doesn't even say pi=4, really.
He is saying use 4 instead of pi in kinematic situations.
But clearly, you're not interested.

I really detest being so rude, but in this case I think it is fully warranted.

That's why I'm taking your words on the chin, or to heart, whatever the right expression is.

I'll try to do better in the future.
Paul

[comingfrom]

Related information from the CERN website.

Just how do cosmic rays reach such high energies? Where are the natural accelerators? The lowest energy cosmic rays arrive from the Sun in a stream of charged particles known as the solar wind, but pinning down the origin of the higher-energy particles is made difficult as they twist and turn in the magnetic fields of interstellar space.

Clues have come through studying high-energy gamma rays from outer space. These are far fewer than the charged cosmic rays, but being electrically neutral they are not influenced by magnetic fields. They generate showers of secondary particles that can be detected on Earth and which point back towards the point of origin of the gamma rays. Sources of the highest energy gamma rays in our own galaxy, the Milky Way, include the remnants of supernovae, such as the famous Crab Nebula; the shock waves from these stellar explosions have long been proposed as possible natural accelerators. Other sources of ultra-high-energy gamma rays lie in other galaxies, where exotic objects such as supermassive black holes may drive the acceleration. There is also evidence that the highest energy charged cosmic rays also have similar origins in other galaxies.

Cosmic rays: particles from outer space

This confirms my thoughts on arrival directions.

Cosmic rays from extra-galactic sources will be drawn into the galactic core, which is why we see great glowing plasmoids (not black holes) at the centers of spiral galaxies. Once drawn into the core they will be flung out the equator by the galaxy's angular momentum, along with all the other radiation in the galactic wind.

I agree the ultra high energy rays probably are from extra-galactic sources, but come to Sol via the galactic core.
On arrival at the solar system, the particle has to contend with the Sun's magnetic field, and then the Earth's magnetic field, by which time it can be coming in at any angle by the time it hits the atmosphere, and our detectors.

Just my thoughts
Paul