A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Credible

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CharlesChandler
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by CharlesChandler » Sat Jul 29, 2017 3:00 pm

BeAChooser wrote:The mainstream astrophysics community is unable to offer a convincing explanation for the helical winding of these filaments. If disagree, then go ahead, explain to us how that helical structure results from shock, winds and/or turbulence, as the mainstream theorists claim? I just don’t buy that explanation, Bob. It's just handwaving. I’ve not seen one model producing such helical winding in cases like this. So I don’t think you can offer a believable explanation ... whereas I can. I clearly see the interaction of two current carrying Birkeland filaments in that image.  To me, that image alone is proof that the EU theorists are right and not the gnome-loving proponents of dark matter and gravity only cosmology.
You have a false dichotomy there. I agree that Newtonian physics doesn't have an explanation for filaments. No combination of gravity pulling in, and/or hydrostatic pressure pushing back out, nor the intricacies of fluid dynamics, will produce such filaments. So I agree with the criticisms of the mainstream model.

But that doesn't "prove" that the filaments are electrodynamic, and there is another possibility that needs to be considered: electrostatics. I have demonstrated that filaments are an expected outcome in the conditions in which they are formed (i.e., gas cloud collisions). I have demonstrated the significance of them in star formation (i.e., there is a tensile force running through them that causes them to collapse, like a stretched rubber band). This and much more comes down to electrostatics, and I can show the math for it. And I can find as many problems in the electric current hypothesis as the EU community finds in the mainstream model. One of them is that they have failed to produce quantified models of their assertions. They locked down on a model over 10 years ago, and still haven't produced numeric descriptions. Sooner or later, that's going to draw the charge of hand-waving back on them. ;)

So don't assume that just because the mainstream is wrong, "the" alternative has to be right -- there might be more than one alternative. EM actually yields a wide variety of possible configurations. When gravity, hydrostatics, and fluid dynamics are thrown into the mix, there are a LOT more possible configurations. They can't all be right. :)
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BeAChooser
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by BeAChooser » Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:26 pm

CharlesChandler wrote:I agree that Newtonian physics doesn't have an explanation for filaments. No combination of gravity pulling in, and/or hydrostatic pressure pushing back out, nor the intricacies of fluid dynamics, will produce such filaments. So I agree with the criticisms of the mainstream model.
Well, that's a start.
CharlesChandler wrote:But that doesn't "prove" that the filaments are electrodynamic, and there is another possibility that needs to be considered: electrostatics. I have demonstrated that filaments are an expected outcome in the conditions in which they are formed (i.e., gas cloud collisions). I have demonstrated the significance of them in star formation (i.e., there is a tensile force running through them that causes them to collapse, like a stretched rubber band). This and much more comes down to electrostatics, and I can show the math for it.
Can you perhaps point me to these posts by you?
CharlesChandler wrote: And I can find as many problems in the electric current hypothesis as the EU community finds in the mainstream model. One of them is that they have failed to produce quantified models of their assertions. They locked down on a model over 10 years ago, and still haven't produced numeric descriptions.
That's partially true but I think a large part of the problem is a lack of funding for pursuing such research and the small matter of not being able to get what they write published in journals controlled by gnome believers.
CharlesChandler wrote:EM actually yields a wide variety of possible configurations. When gravity, hydrostatics, and fluid dynamics are thrown into the mix, there are a LOT more possible configurations.
Oh I agree. The end result will be a mixture ... but the mixture will definitely include the special properties of plasma and the effects of electromagnetism on plasma ... as demonstrated in labs. The mainstream currently ... essentially ... ignores the two. It looks through filters that rule out any cause but gravity or fluid dynamics. And as I demonstrated, doing that leaves them with absolutely no believable explanation of fundamental observations of the structure of many filaments out there. Finally, let me note that my post was in response to this statement by Bob_Ham … “If you can't even answer simple questions about a model, then you shouldn't be putting it forward as a possible explanation”, who instead of responding ran off and started another thread insisting that he’d only discuss things with people having a “physics degree”. You see, Charles, THAT is part of the problem.

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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by CharlesChandler » Sat Jul 29, 2017 5:24 pm

BeAChooser wrote:Can you perhaps point me to these posts by you?
I can supply a long list of threads on which I have participated, some of them being somewhat verbose, such as: http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 10&t=15374 but a better place to start would be the brief introduction here:
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=6630

A more detailed presentation, including a description of the mathematical model, and the results, is here:
http://qdl.scs-inc.us/?top=12692

If we're going to discuss my model to any degree beyond just a passing reference, we should take the discussion over to the NIAMI forum, since the EU forum is just for discussing (for/against) assertions made by the principle EU proponents.
BeAChooser wrote:And as I demonstrated, doing that leaves them with absolutely no believable explanation of fundamental observations of the structure of many filaments out there.
I agree. And more and more, they're preferring non-physical models. Why? Because physics questions don't come up if the topic is a non-physical model. ;)
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BeAChooser
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by BeAChooser » Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:47 am

Where's Bob? :lol:

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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by CharlesChandler » Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:31 am

BeAChooser wrote:Where's Bob? :lol:
He's out shopping for a fancy frame for his diploma. ;)
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by rasmath » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:49 am

I agree with Bob on the point that most of us are unprepared because I was spanked by him on reddit. Due to not a profound knowledge required for defending EU/PC that I see as the correct path to follow. What should I do to improve it ? And Cheers to all who argued against him. You guys looks real scientists to me.

BeAChooser
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by BeAChooser » Mon Jul 31, 2017 7:39 am

rasmath wrote:What should I do to improve it ?
Ask Bob about helically wound filaments. I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you all about them. :D

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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by rasmath » Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:12 am

BeAChooser wrote:
rasmath wrote:What should I do to improve it ?
Ask Bob about helically wound filaments. I'm sure he'll be happy to tell you all about them. :D
I am sure he was here just to prove his point. Poor boy. Maybe someday he will join us. :mrgreen:

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CharlesChandler
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Re: A Lack of Physics Knowledge Makes EU Arguments Less Cred

Unread post by CharlesChandler » Tue Aug 01, 2017 3:48 am

CharlesChandler wrote:
BeAChooser wrote:Can you perhaps point me to these posts by you?
I can supply a long list of threads on which I have participated
BTW, the thread that was specifically about the overview of my model (i.e., "Atoms, Stars, & Galaxies") is here:

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=16670

Don't anybody bitch & moan about people in the EU not doing physical modeling, and then fail to engage when somebody does. ;)
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