New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

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Michael Mozina
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New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

Post by Michael Mozina » Tue May 30, 2017 8:18 pm

https://www.sciencealert.com/nasa-set-t ... ver-before
In addition to the heat shield, the US$1.5 billion Solar Probe Plus (SPP) will use an active water circulation system to help protect instruments that will measure the corona's electric and magnetic fields, electron temperatures, and plasma density.

And of course, there'll also be an imaging system to take a few holiday snaps while spending such quality time under the Sun.

"Understanding the activity of the Sun and predicting weather from it is crucial if we really want to have humans explore space more, including working and living on the Moon and Mars," says Tucker.

Getting a grip on how particles are whipped into high speeds will also give researchers a better idea on how objects move through space. Tucker pointed out that the Kepler Space Telescope is steered by solar winds.
Hmmmm. I'm intrigued by the fact that NASA is looking to measure the sun's electric fields. They might finally realize 100 years after Birkeland experimentally explained to them that it's the sun's the electric field which accelerates charged particles, not just the sun's magnetic fields. :)

2018 is shaping up to be a very important year for solar physics as well as for cosmology theory with the launch of the James Webb telescope. Solar physics theory and cosmology theory are about to get a major upgrade. :)

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Metryq
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Re: New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

Post by Metryq » Wed May 31, 2017 3:25 am

It will be interesting.

Does the probe carry a roll of duct tape for repairing all those broken magnetic field lines? (You know, the ones that exist entirely without electricity?)

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Re: New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

Post by Michael Mozina » Wed May 31, 2017 12:57 pm

Metryq wrote:It will be interesting.

Does the probe carry a roll of duct tape for repairing all those broken magnetic field lines? (You know, the ones that exist entirely without electricity?)
LOL!

I'm actually encouraged that NASA seems to believe that they can measure electric fields during this mission. I'm not sure exactly how they are trying to measure them since I haven't spent much time researching the hardware yet, but at least they're thinking about electric fields and trying to measure them. That's definitely a step forward.

I can't even look at SDO solar images anymore and not "see" the influence of electric fields. I don't even know how anyone can even look at x-ray images of the sun and not realize the implications as it relates to electricity. Magnetic fields are a function of current flow. They are *caused by* current flow. Only current flow would sustain those coronal loops at million degree temperatures for hours and days on end.

Magnetic reconnection theory was made obsolete and irrelevant decades ago when Alfven wrote his double layer paper. The mainstream refuses to acknowledge that point, and they continue to peddle what Alfven called "pseudoscience" till the day he died.

The mainstream got it "pseudo" correct in the sense that EM fields are responsible for those high energy solar atmospheric processes, but they blew it big time by trying to put the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse.

Over 100 years ago, Birkeland and his team *physically demonstrated* that the electric field is responsible for both the kinetic energy of the sun's corona and the Earth's aurora. There's no *experimental* doubt about it.

Just like the Chapman/Birkeland debate, the mainstream continues to cling to a math formula which they "think" is very 'elegant', yet it's the very some formula that Alfven himself rejected entirely!

I cannot for the life of me understand the mainstream as it relates to solar physics. Maybe this mission will finally open up their eyes to the role of electricity, and electric fields in solar physics. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. :)

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Re: New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

Post by Cargo » Wed May 31, 2017 5:34 pm

I challenge SAFIRE to predict what touching the sun feels like before NASA.
interstellar filaments conducted electricity having currents as high as 10 thousand billion amperes

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Magnetism vs Electricity - A historical reality check...

Post by Michael Mozina » Wed May 31, 2017 8:12 pm

Cargo wrote:I challenge SAFIRE to predict what touching the sun feels like before NASA.
I believe that SAFIRE will have to try reversing the polarity to do that properly. :)

My money is on Birkeland's cathode solar model for several logical reasons which were made all too clear from watching the NASA announcement which I was finally able to this evening.

If you watched the presentation, it was a very nice tribute to the work of Dr. Eugene Parker. Before I start to rip on the mainstream, I'd like to tip my hat to Dr. Parker as well since Dr. Parker did teach me quite a few things about plasma by reading his work, even if I disagree with him about the cause of solar wind.

It's pretty clear that the mainstream and NASA are "doubling down" on "magnetic reconnection' theory by naming this satellite after a *living* scientist. Evidently that's a first for NASA.

What struck me the most is that everyone kept (erroneously) claiming that Dr. Parker was the first person to predict solar wind in 1958. That's simply incorrect and it is historically inaccurate. Kristian Birkeland predicted (and simulated) the existence of high speed solar wind particles about five decades earlier. Like Parker, Birkeland originally called them corpuscles (where did Parker get that term from anyway?) which consisted of both types of charged particles which flowed from the sun and into the Earth. Birkeland even wrote a paper defending his position on the composition of solar wind, and the fact that solar wind contained *both* types of high speed particles flowing from the sun. Parker's famous paper came about 50 years later, and yes, it also predicted high speed solar wind, but Parker certainly wasn't the first individual to mathematically (and physically in Birkeland's case) predict the existence of high speed charged particle flow from the sun. NASA's claim that Dr. Parker was the first individual to predict solar wind is just not an accurate portrayal of the historical facts. Granted Parker was closer to the right speed than Birkeland, because Birkeland actually overestimated the speed by underestimating the density.

I think the reason that Parker's original paper eventually caught on with the mainstream is because his paper came out only a couple of years before satellites in space actually verified the existence of high speed solar wind. His paper was just 'newer' and more current than Birkeland's work, and of course it's based upon putting the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse.

Another interesting revelation in that presentation is that in 1958 Parker also met with a lot of resistance from the mainstream, because everyone in 1958 still seemed to believe that interplanetary space was basically a big vacuum with only minor slow speed particle flow from the sun. All the speakers pretty much confirmed that this was the prevailing theory prior to 1958, 50 years *after* Birkeland first *predicted* and simulated the existence of high speed solar wind particles from the sun. Parker's claim of high speed solar wind was still so controversial in 1958, apparently the APJ rejected Dr. Parker's paper too. :)

As much as I admire Dr. Parker, he was 5 decades too late to have actually been the 'first' person to predict solar wind. Parker even originally used the very same term as Birkeland, scalling it corpuscular radiation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m58-CfVrsN4

In 2017, the mainstream still remains perplexed by solar wind, even though Birkeland not only "predicted" it's existence a hundred years ago, he actually simulated the process in his lab.

The mainstream could *never* create a full sphere working model of solar wind based on magnetic reconnection theory to this very day. Birkeland did it over 100 years ago using electric fields however.

It's really just amazing to me just how ignorant of Birkeland's work that the mainstream remains to this day. The fact they can even "believe" and publicly state that Parker was the first scientist to predict solar wind just shows you how out of touch with historical reality that they've become. It also shows you how entrenched they remain in terms of insisting on putting the magnetic cart in front of the electric horse. They literally doubled down on magnetic reconnect theory with that presentation, decades after Alfven's double layer paper that made the whole concept obsolete and irrelevant.

The mainstream really does have a very skewed and twisted understanding of history, and that presentation just underscores that point.

I look forward to the data from the new satellite, but I'm already cringing with respect to the mainstream's portrayal of solar physics research, and their complete lack of historical accuracy.

The mainstream overlooked Birkeland's work on aurora for 60 years before they grudgingly accepted his work on aurora, and it may be another 60 years before they *finally* figure out he was right about the electrical aspects of solar physics.

I sure hope that this mission gives NASA some incentive to embrace something other than "pseudoscience'. I'll have to spend some time trying to understand how they intend to measure the electric fields. That's probably the only piece of equipment that could force them to change their models.

This really does have the Chapman/Birkeland debate feel about it too. Like Chapman's math only approach to physics, Parker was able to use "math" to predict a full spherical emission of solar wind, whereas Birkeland not only predicted it with math, he actually *simulated* it in his lab. IMO 1 test is worth a 1000 expert opinions, and I know for a fact that Birkeland's model works in the lab. The mainstream remains entirely phobic when it comes to laboratory experimentation. That's been their primary undoing historically speaking. Will the mainstream *ever* put real effort in creating real solar physics experiments in the lab?

SAFIRE should *not* be the only large scale solar physics laboratory experiment. It's downright embarrassing that Birkeland did more lab work with different configurations and combinations than anyone alive on Earth today. That's just sad IMO.

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Metryq
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Re: New Mission to "Touch The Sun"

Post by Metryq » Thu Jun 01, 2017 2:17 am

I would love to see a documentary made from Lucy Jago's The Northern Lights—say maybe a PBS Nova episode, or a NatGeo production. It might even be a wake-up for many professional scientists, who may be understandably swamped in learning all the "current thinking" in physics. They'll say, "I never knew about this guy. Why weren't we taught this in class?"

Time to introduce the world to a new type of "current" thinking. Amp it up.

Michael Mozina
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Good paper about the equipment

Post by Michael Mozina » Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:33 pm

https://link.springer.com/article/10.10 ... 014-0059-1

FYI, this is a pretty great resource in terms of describing the various instruments on the Parker Solar Probe. I'm still slogging through the paper at the moment, but it looks like they're idea of 'testing" various potential causes of particle acceleration is based upon particle properties that are measured at probe, and predictions made by different models. I'll have to read through some of those papers to get an idea of what they predict in terms of the properties of various particles. I'm still trying to figure out if the Parker Probe can directly measure electric fields, and over what distances.

It occurs to me that we (as a community) might also want to start to make some predictions about the types of particles, the direction of the particles, and the relative speed of various particles that are likely to be present, if only to differentiate between the various EU/PC solar models among ourselves, and to "test" those predictions based on real measurements.

Birkeland's cathode model would tend to predict that there will be a steam of high speed electrons coming from the sun (strahl), along with slower moving particles of all kinds (solar wind). In terms of the ions present, I'm going to assume that the solar wind ion composition will be primarily based upon the charge to weight ratio of the various elements with mostly Hydrogen+1, Helium+2 and Helium+1 in that order. I'd assume there would be quite a smattering of different elements present in the solar wind particles in the corona, but it will mostly be composed of the lightest elements with the greatest charge. I'm pretty sure (I'll have to reread his experiments) that Birkeland's model will predict the strongest outbound flow of electrons will occur away from the equator, and closer to the poles. If I recall correctly, it should also predict a circular flow of particles in rings around the equator region (Parker Spiral region). Again, I need to reread some of Birkeland's material before I get too carried away.

One awesome thing about NASA, they always build very cool hardware, and this mission certainly looks to be no exception. I"m pleased by what I'm reading in terms of the hardware, but I'm not much impressed in terms of the theory side of this paper with respect to isolating the cause solar wind of course. :)

I'm "assuming" (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong) that an anode solar model would predict a mostly inbound (toward the sun) flow of high speed electrons, and a mostly outbound flow of positively charged ions? It might be really useful to apply some of SAFIRE's findings to the solar wind predictions.

This will of course be somewhat messy because there's probably both an inbound flow and an outbound flow of electrons in both models, particularly in and around coronal loops where the flow patterns of the various particles are related to relative charges on the surface. It doesn't look like the PSP is going to get that close to the surface however, so I doubt that particular problem is going to be much of an issue.

This looks to be a *great* NASA mission that is on par with sophisticated satellites like SDO. I'm excited. :)

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