Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun Spots

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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upriver
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Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun Spots

Unread post by upriver » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:19 pm

It looks like the Solar cycle is tied to the Conjuration and Opposition of Saturn and Jupiter.

Tall Bloke did some work in this area but
https://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2 ... ej_w01.pdf
I dont think that he simplified it like this.

You can see that every sun spot cycle occurs when Jupiter and Saturn have a certain geometric relationship, and not even necessarily in or out of the current sheet as I had first suspected. Although there does appear to be a role by the current sheet in auroral planetary activity and cometary activity.

JPL Small-Body Database Browser
http://ssd.jpl.nasa.gov/sbdb.cgi?sstr=h ... ;cad=0#orb

Using the light curve data I was trying to see if I could predict sunspots based on heliospheric current sheet position.
Certain Light curves allow you predict the orbit of the comet allowing you to discern the outline of the Heliospheric current sheets(flux tubes, incoming Birkeland currents) area of influence, assuming that the electric field interpretation of comets lighting up in the Efield of the sun is a perfect sphere based on some distance from the sun..

Saturn and Jupiter are so large that they appear to influence the sun on a macroscopic scale.

The other planets also have resonances coinciding with the effects of J and S.

So the Sun has a basic input Esun. Whether its Birkeland currents or antenna like resonance.
This basic input is transformed into the solar wind, heat and radiation.

This output Eout from the sun is affected by the planetary position which modulates the sunspot cycle by providing a current/energy sink.

So basically the sun is in glow mode all the time. When S and J are in position then the sun goes into Abnormal glow mode on certain areas of the sun i. e. Sun spots!...

This affects the solar wind output which directly affects the Biosphere of the planets.
However I dont think this is the end of the story as evidenced by my Kinetic Energy hypothesis.
I think all physical systems are just carriers of kinetic energy(motion) from end to end.

Brant

upriver
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by upriver » Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:54 pm

Here is a butterfly diagram that can be used for applying dates to the JPL orbit app.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... _graph.gif

celeste
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Location: Scottsdale, Arizona

Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by celeste » Sun Aug 21, 2016 9:46 pm

upriver wrote:It looks like the Solar cycle is tied to the Conjuration and Opposition of Saturn and Jupiter.

You can see that every sun spot cycle occurs when Jupiter and Saturn have a certain geometric relationship, and not even necessarily in or out of the current sheet as I had first suspected.

Brant
Yes, and it really does belong in this thread http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =3&t=16299

The most important point here, is that the solar cycle has nothing to do with Jupiter and the Sun, and then independently with Saturn and the Sun. That is, we are not seeing one solar cycle that has to do with Jupiter's orbit, and another one due to Saturn's orbit. We are seeing one solar cycle that depends on both planet's positions. It is the orbit of the sun that matters, and then all the planets see the effects of that orbit at once.

Are you seeing the significance of this? For those who wanted to put the sun at the center of some filament, we should see one cycle as Jupiter approaches and recedes from the sun (and see this cycle mostly at the surface of Jupiter), and another cycle as Saturn approaches or recedes from the sun(seen mostly at ?Saturn,etc). What we see (and there can be no arguing with this), is one solar cycle, that is determined by the motion of the sun around solar system barycenter. For example, we see on Earth, an influx of charged particles, at one point in the solar cycle. It has nothing to do with where Earth is relative to the sun, only where the sun is relative to the solar system barycenter. This is important.

So absolutely, can we agree that it is not where a planet happens to be in the "sun's current sheet" that matters? If this was the case, we should have different "solar cycle" for each planet, not a single solar cycle based on the orbit of the sun.

upriver
Posts: 542
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by upriver » Mon Aug 22, 2016 6:54 pm

Assuming the the sun spot number has remained constant, then that implies some other factor than gravity has to be taken into account for the suns variability over the last 400 years...

"The two methods of counting the sunspot number—the Wolf Sunspot Number and the Group Sunspot Number—indicated significantly different levels of solar activity before about 1885 and also around 1945. With these discrepancies now eliminated, there is no longer any substantial difference between the two historical records.
The new correction of the sunspot number, called the Sunspot Number Version 2.0, led by Frédéric Clette (Director of the World Data Centre [WDC]-SILSO), Ed Cliver (National Solar Observatory) and Leif Svalgaard (Stanford University, California, USA), nullifies the claim that there has been a Modern Grand Maximum."

Corrected sunspot history fails to find modern solar maximum
https://tallbloke.wordpress.com/2015/08 ... r-maximum/
http://phys.org/news/2015-08-sunspot-hi ... tural.html

SOLAR VARIABILITY OVER THE PAST SEVERAL MILLENNIA
http://faculty.fgcu.edu/twimberley/Envi ... SolVar.pdf

upriver
Posts: 542
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by upriver » Mon Aug 22, 2016 7:07 pm

celeste wrote:
upriver wrote:It looks like the Solar cycle is tied to the Conjuration and Opposition of Saturn and Jupiter.

You can see that every sun spot cycle occurs when Jupiter and Saturn have a certain geometric relationship, and not even necessarily in or out of the current sheet as I had first suspected.

Brant
Yes, and it really does belong in this thread http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... =3&t=16299

The most important point here, is that the solar cycle has nothing to do with Jupiter and the Sun, and then independently with Saturn and the Sun. That is, we are not seeing one solar cycle that has to do with Jupiter's orbit, and another one due to Saturn's orbit. We are seeing one solar cycle that depends on both planet's positions. It is the orbit of the sun that matters, and then all the planets see the effects of that orbit at once.

Are you seeing the significance of this? For those who wanted to put the sun at the center of some filament, we should see one cycle as Jupiter approaches and recedes from the sun (and see this cycle mostly at the surface of Jupiter), and another cycle as Saturn approaches or recedes from the sun(seen mostly at ?Saturn,etc). What we see (and there can be no arguing with this), is one solar cycle, that is determined by the motion of the sun around solar system barycenter. For example, we see on Earth, an influx of charged particles, at one point in the solar cycle. It has nothing to do with where Earth is relative to the sun, only where the sun is relative to the solar system barycenter. This is important.

So absolutely, can we agree that it is not where a planet happens to be in the "sun's current sheet" that matters? If this was the case, we should have different "solar cycle" for each planet, not a single solar cycle based on the orbit of the sun.
Yep, thats what it looks like. Small scale effects like the Aurora, Climate, Lightning etc are the result of Eout.

The planets Biosphere and magnetosphere are mostly affected by the "Eout" of the sun which is affected mostly by gravity i.e. the position of the planets moving the sun to a different spot in the filament Ein.

The Total filament Ein of the sun may vary on a much larger time scale than the orbit of Saturn as the solar system travels through intergalactic space and the plasma density changes.

jacmac
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by jacmac » Mon Aug 22, 2016 8:48 pm

Upriver said:
So the Sun has a basic input Esun. Whether its Birkeland currents or antenna like resonance.
This basic input is transformed into the solar wind, heat and radiation.
I think that is a good start.
The planets Biosphere and magnetosphere are mostly affected by the "Eout" of the sun
It is my placeholder position(until something changes my mind) that the solar wind is basically a return circuit to the heliosphere and beyond.

Celeste said:
The most important point here, is that the solar cycle has nothing to do with Jupiter and the Sun, and then independently with Saturn and the Sun. That is, we are not seeing one solar cycle that has to do with Jupiter's orbit, and another one due to Saturn's orbit. We are seeing one solar cycle that depends on both planet's positions.
And:
Are you seeing the significance of this? For those who wanted to put the sun at the center of some filament, we should see one cycle as Jupiter approaches and recedes from the sun (and see this cycle mostly at the surface of Jupiter), and another cycle as Saturn approaches or recedes from the sun(seen mostly at ?Saturn,etc). What we see (and there can be no arguing with this), is one solar cycle, that is determined by the motion of the sun around solar system barycenter.
While I get what you are saying I do not agree that the barycenter is paramount. I do agree that the eccentricity of the planet orbits(except Pluto) is rather modest and is therefore not a big factor in producing or causing sunspots. However, I do think the best candidate for sunspot creation is the planets, that is, the relative position of them all with respect to each other and not so much each individually with the sun. To be clear I am speaking about the electric environment predominantly and not a tidal force.
And:
It is the orbit of the sun that matters and then all the planets see the effects of that orbit at once.
I don't think the sun "orbits" the barycenter. The combined gravity of the planets makes the sun move off center so to speak, and I suppose the sun as well makes each planet move off of a nice neat elliptical orbit .
By championing the barycenter as cause you are saying that a modest(relative to the size of the solar system) gravitational force is causing a major electrical effect i.e., the sunspot cycle.
Also, I assume you are saying the large filament is remaining steady relative to the barycenter. I think it more likely that the filament would remain steady relative to the sun because electrical connections tend to hold on, so to speak, to what they latch on to. IMO.
All these things we speak of are of some influence no doubt, but I think the sunspots themselves are a result of a local event within the solar system. I pick the planets.
Why the sunspots tend to start at higher latitudes and move toward the equator, and why the polarity of the solar magnetic field flips....I donno !
Jack
Ps. And what is up with the "earth facing quiet" ?

celeste
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by celeste » Tue Aug 23, 2016 9:55 am

jacmac wrote: I don't think the sun "orbits" the barycenter. The combined gravity of the planets makes the sun move off center so to speak, and I suppose the sun as well makes each planet move off of a nice neat elliptical orbit .
By championing the barycenter as cause you are saying that a modest(relative to the size of the solar system) gravitational force is causing a major electrical effect i.e., the sunspot cycle.
Also, I assume you are saying the large filament is remaining steady relative to the barycenter. I think it more likely that the filament would remain steady relative to the sun because electrical connections tend to hold on, so to speak, to what they latch on to. IMO.
Gravitational force causing an electrical effect, is what occurs with comets, correct? It is the radial acceleration of the comet,due to that inverse square force, that causes the cometary charging/discharging cycle. The link between radial acceleration of the sun (by gravitational means), is what is linked to the solar cycle here: https://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/1207/1207.5436.pdf Now it is true as you say, that the motion of the sun compared to barycenter is modest on the solar system scale, but so is the solar cycle, at least compared to the radical changes in output we have for a comet.

At any rate, we have to stop thinking that "the filament would remain steady relative to the sun". Here, the mainstream ideas are at least a step ahead. They at least realize the sun is not the center of the solar system, and that the solar cycle somehow relates to the motion of the sun around barycenter.
If we keep think of the sun as sitting in a "sea" of charged particles, then yes, we keep coming to the wrong conclusion that all those particles should flow radially towards or away from the sun at center. The sun,however, is not in a "sea" of particles. It is contained within a filament, where all the particles are governed by the filament, at least until very near the sun. Again remember this: http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1086/300939/pdf
we have a star in what looks like a large scale current filament. The star is not at the axis of the filament, which means most of the current runs past the star . If there is any current that flows radially towards the star, it is on a scale much smaller than we see here. The flow to the star, has to not even disrupt the nice hourglass shape we see in the scale of the images there.

upriver
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by upriver » Wed Aug 24, 2016 7:19 pm

I wanted to see if this link worked but its a link to a Jacobs ladder like CME at Integrated Space Weather.

http://iswa.ccmc.gsfc.nasa.gov/IswaSyst ... 10&s_2=0_6

mythsarehistory
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:35 pm

Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by mythsarehistory » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:42 am

The late great Carl Smith and current Landscheidt.info curator Geoff Sharp have also worked in the modulating positions of Uranus and Neptune, and may have even pinpointed the exact outer planet configuration that triggered the Carrington Event.

http://www.landscheidt.info/?q=node/4

You'll find much more related info throughout landscheidt.info .

If such correlating data indeed adds up, one would imagine that other proponents of Sun-Earth "space weather" events would be highly interested in potential advance forecasting of CMEs, et al, per careful examination of the ecliptic longitude and latitude of the outer giants . . . ;)

Webbman
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by Webbman » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:57 am

makes sense to me. The spots themselves look like some sort of charge/discharge effect.

I imagine all the planets can generate the spot effect in some form. My thought is that the planets actually help stabilize the sun and their magnetic (not gravimetric) orbits maximize this effect.

so a sun with no or few planets=unstable
a sun with many planets = stable or more stable
its all lies.

jacmac
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 12:36 pm

Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by jacmac » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:40 pm

I have taken a quick look at the Landscheidt. info site.

I wish to share this quote;
Wolf's method of recording 10 for a group and then 1 for each spot gives a much greater bias to single smaller spots.
It is my suggestion that recording 10 for a group gives a greater bias to the group. The opposite of the quote.

I suggest the group is one big electric current event and the footprint on the photosphere has broken up and has become a group. To get an accurate idea of the number of "events" one needs to know the number of groups, counted as ten. This is not broken out in any data that I have seen. Any help with that would be great.

Just a quick comment for now.
I need to spend more time with this topic.
Jack

JouniJokela
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Re: Conjunction and Opposition of Jupiter and Saturn = Sun S

Unread post by JouniJokela » Wed Dec 14, 2016 3:32 am

mythsarehistory wrote:...and may have even pinpointed the exact outer planet configuration that triggered the Carrington Event.

http://www.landscheidt.info/?q=node/4

You'll find much more related info throughout landscheidt.info .

If such correlating data indeed adds up,
Well, ok. I'll just do this to You;
Carrington event;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859
From August 28 to September 2, 1859, many sunspots appeared on the Sun. On August 29, southern auroras were observed as far north as Queensland, Australia.[5] Just before noon on September 1, the English amateur astronomers Richard Carrington and Richard Hodgson independently made the first observations of a solar flare.[6] The flare was associated with a major coronal mass ejection (CME) that travelled directly toward Earth, taking 17.6 hours to make the 150 million kilometre (93 million mile) journey. It is believed that the relatively high speed of this CME (typical CMEs take several days to arrive at Earth) was made possible by a prior CME, perhaps the cause of the large aurora event on August 29, that "cleared the way" of ambient solar wind plasma for the Carrington event.
With this tool;
http://cosinekitty.com/solar_system.html
(choose "ecliptic") we can find out that Eclitptic Longitudes werw at;
Sun Aug 28 1859 20:22:50 GMT+0200
Venus 135° 16' 14.5"
Mars 135° 16' 14.5"
Saturn 136° 34' 36.2"
And
Sun Aug 28 1859 22:51:40 GMT+0200
Mercury 334° 58' 21.1"
Earth 334° 58' 21.2"
And
Mon Aug 29 1859 16:06:10 GMT+0200
Venus 136° 36' 23.6"
Mars 135° 37' 59.7"
Saturn 136° 36' 23.6"
And
Thu Sep 01 1859 01:50:00 GMT+0200
Venus 140° 31' 01.4"
Mars 136° 41' 37.4"
Saturn 136° 41' 37.7"
And
Fri Sep 02 1859 16:14:20 GMT+0200
Mercury 355° 37' 59.2"
Neptune 355° 37' 59.5"
...I found this info above

As the Solar equator rotates in 24.5 Day cycle;
The 3 day 3 hour from 28.Aug to 1.Sept, it Rotates it ie; 45.9 Degrees.

Maybe some one could make a drawing or simulation about this.

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