Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

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Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:44 pm

Two years ago I proposed a possible approach to some questions raised by Bob Johnson at the EU 2013 Conference ‘The Tipping Point’. At question was the nature of the Electric Sun model, not the mainstream fusion model, in particular, the model initially proposed by Ralph Juergens in 1972 (1) and subsequently developed by Earl Milton, Don Scott and Wal Thornhill.

Bob Johnson had hoped to stimulate discussion in trying to resolve some outstanding issues that he identified with the Juergens Milton Scott Thornhill (JMST) model which would ultimately lead to a consistent Electric Sun model.

Two years on and using available data from SOHO, Ulysses, Cassini and IBEX missions I’m presenting a revised and updated approach that may lead to a workable Electric Sun model; in light of this data I have reassessed my original assumptions but my starting points, as before, are the sunspot and Hale solar magnetic cycles which this proposal views as key to understanding how the Sun is powered by its environment; none of the 4 authors above fully address both cycles and Bob Johnson claims that one explanation (Wal Thornhill’s) concerning the timing of sunspots and the Sun’s equatorial torus is at odds with the data.

The Negative Anode

In his original work (1) Ralph Juergens suggested that the Sun was highly negatively charged but its environment carried an even greater negative charge, as a result the Sun functioned as an anode in an electrical discharge of galactic proportions. In order to sustain the discharge Ralph Juergens assumed that charges were separated on a galactic scale with a gradual transfer of charge between regions of differing potentials. Since that time we now know that the interstellar plasma is far more filamentary; is it possible that current filaments directly impinge on the solar surface to sustain the discharge and if so, how?

The Sun’s Orientation

In order to appreciate the approach I am suggesting a brief understanding of the Sun’s orientation as it moves around the Milky Way Galaxy is needed. A common misconception is that the Sun’s rotational axis (North and South poles) is aligned with the rotational axis of the galaxy (North and South Galactic poles). This is not the case, the Sun’s rotational axis is inclined some 63 degrees (2) from the rotational axis of the galaxy; the Sun and the solar system are effectively tipped over on their side with the Sun’s north pole pointing in the direction of motion (see: image below). A similar situation exists in the solar system were Uranus’ rotational axis is tilted (some 98 degrees) in relation to the Sun’s axis. Interestingly, given that Uranus’ axial tilt is more closely aligned to that of the galaxy is this an indication that Uranus is a captured former brown dwarf?

Galactic Tilt C.jpg


Current Filaments

In the Plasma/ Electric Universe model helical Birkeland currents (3) flow through the arms of a spiral galaxy (see: http://www.ice-age-ahead-iaa.ca/small/electric_galaxy_dynamics.jpg). As the Sun is located in one of the spiral arms of the Milky Way galaxy it is reasonable to assume that a degree of interaction must occur between it and any Birkeland currents present in the Local Interstellar Medium (LISM). The possibility of interaction is greatly increased given the size of the Sun’s heliosphere. The spacecraft Voyager 1 was reported to have left the heliosphere and entered interstellar space at a distance of approximately 18 billion kilometres or ~122 AU (Astronomical Units), now a sphere with a radius of 122 AU could contain all the stars of 2 Milky Way sized galaxies!

Due to the helical nature of Birkeland currents any point of contact between the current and the heliosphere will be a varying one (see: below).

Galactic Tilt D.jpg


Now, from this illustration we can see that relative motion between the Sun/heliosphere and a (rotating?) helical Birkeland current (helicity of which is represented by zigzag or saw-tooth line) will vary cyclically. At one point of the cycle the local current will impinge on the heliosphere at an angle that is not too dissimilar to the Sun’s equatorial plane. As the cycle progresses current flow will impinge on the heliosphere at increasingly high solar latitudes, eventually the current will once again be focused at the equatorial regions, having passed through every angle in-between.

One way to visualise the idea in 3 dimensions is to imagine a table tennis ball as representing the heliosphere, held in the centre of a stretched-out slinky (spring) which represents helical Birkeland current filaments.

Solar Cycles: Minimum

Alfven Circuit A.gif


Arbitrarily starting at this point the solar magnetic field North (positive) is located in the solar northern hemisphere likewise magnetic South (negative) is located in the solar southern hemisphere. This is Solar Minimum, the Sun’s magnetic field is dominated by its dipolar component, very few sunspots are visible and the heliosphere is dominated by the Fast Solar Wind (FSW) (750km/s). Coronal holes appear that exhibit ‘open’ magnetic field lines suggesting a connection with the distant heliopause. The composition of the Fast Solar Wind closely matches that of the photosphere. The Sun appears dark in X-ray images and total solar irradiance falls slightly. At this time the corona adopts a lenticular form or forms an equatorial torus of energetic particles in a region that is now dominated by the Heliospheric Current Sheet (HCS) and Slow Solar Wind (350km/s). Unlike the FSW the composition of the Slow Solar Wind (SSW) closely matches that of the corona. (4) Before the Ulysses mission it was known that two types of solar wind existed: a slow wind (SSW) which was considered typical and a fast wind (FSW) which was considered to be unusual. Ulysses found that the FSW is present throughout the whole 11 year Solar Cycle and only ‘disappears’ at Solar Maximum. So the FSW is the ‘rule’ whilst the SSW is the ‘exception’.

Indeed, observations by Ulysses at Solar Minimum could be interpreted as showing that the FSW in the solar equatorial regions is being impeded by incoming current manifesting as the SSW.

Findings from the Voyager 1 spacecraft indicate that the plasma outside the heliosphere is 40 times denser than the plasma inside the heliosphere. (5) Whilst the Ulysses spacecraft found the temperature of the Local Interstellar Cloud (LIC) plasma to be 6500K. (6) If we postulate a Birkeland current entering a region of lower density then a current carrying double layer (CCDL) may well form, as: ‘the current has to pass through a region of decreased ion density. In order to prevent charge from accumulating, the current in the system must be the same everywhere. The electron density also has to be close to the ion density (quasineutrality), so there is also a dip in electron density. The electrons must therefore be accelerated into the density cavity, to maintain the same current density with a lower density of charge carriers. This implies that the density cavity is at a high electrical potential. As a consequence, the ions are accelerated out of the cavity…’ (7) The SSW is approximately twice as dense as the FSW, if the SSW is the result of impinging currents from the denser LISM then the acceleration ability of a double layer may well be the cause of the SSW ability to oppose the FSW at the heliographic equator.

If so, at Solar Minimum current is being accelerated toward the Sun and focused on a broad equatorial belt, from this image we can see how sharp the division is between the two solar winds- just as if the SSW is a Birkeland current (8). The density of the current is such that the corona displays ‘holes’ or is incomplete but changes to the photosphere are minimal. At Solar Minimum then, apart from an equatorial wedge shaped SSW containing the HCS the heliosphere is dominated by the FSW and an ordered magnetic field; the dominant mode of discharge appears to be that as described by Ralph Juergens, the FSW being analogous to the ‘Juergens Circuit’.

Solar Cycles: Maximum

Alfven Circuit B.gif


If, as is assumed here, Birkeland currents are rotating past the heliosphere in a helical motion then the intensity of any incoming currents will fluctuate in response to that motion. This is what we find, sunspots gradually appear in a band at mid to higher solar latitudes the bands first widen, then as the cycle continues move toward the solar equatorial regions. (9). The above diagram shows that the impinging current has rotated away from the equator (having passed through every angle in-between) and is arriving at high solar latitudes ,this is Solar Maximum. We find that the polar coronal holes, FSW and equatorial torus have all now ‘disappeared’ (corona now spherical). The solar magnetic field has lost its dipole structure and is in complete disarray, (10, 11) even exhibiting a four pole structure (12).

Observations have found that the Current Sheet tilts from 0 degrees at Solar Minimum to almost 80 degrees at Solar Maximum and may even be perpendicular to the plane of the solar system during magnetic reversals! This high angle means impinging currents take on a more filamentary appearance being distributed over a greater area of the photosphere were they appear as sunspots.

‘Magnetic field strengths within sunspots range from 1,000 to 4,000 Gauss, and are thousands of times more intense than Earth's average surface field strength of about 0.5 Gauss. The fields within sunspots are also much stronger than the Sun's global average field, which is around 1 Gauss. Larger sunspots have higher field strengths’ (13).

Observations by the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory or SOHO spacecraft found ‘A sunspot turns out to be a kind of whirlpool, where hot gas near the Sun’s surface converges and dives into the interior at speeds of up to 4000 kilometres per hour’ (14, 15). Sunspots are also known to rotate. SOHO found that there was a strong plasma vortex beneath the rotating sunspot and that the magnetic fields confining the sunspot appeared to be twisted beneath the surface, in the sunspot umbra the magnetic field is normal to the solar surface whilst in the penumbra the field is more inclined almost as if the very structure of a Birkeland current is being plotted on the photosphere. The Sun now appears bright in X-ray images and total solar irradiance increases slightly- as the bulk of electrons arriving at the Sun are now dispersed over the equatorial regions.

During Solar Cycle 23 SOHO discovered what mission scientists called ‘Mysterious clouds of gas falling towards the Sun’, they were ‘mysterious’ because they ‘go against the fast-moving streams of gas that pour out continuously into space, in the solar wind’ (16). From this European Space Agency (ESA) report (17) we find: ‘About 8000 inflow events have now been logged - most of them since 1998 while the Sun has been at its most active, as judged by the high count of sunspots. The inflows can start at an altitude of up to 2,700,000 kilometres above the visible surface, a distance equal to twice the Sun's diameter. Here the accelerating solar wind, leaving the Sun, has reached a speed of about 120 kilometres per second. Fighting against it, the gas clouds travel in at 50-100 kilometres per second. Typically they appear to come to rest about 700,000 kilometres out.’

However, the LASCO instrument aboard SOHO was designed to explore the region from 700,000 to 3,500,000 kilometres from the visible surface, so it is possible that the inflows of gas descended much closer to the photosphere. Of course we are really talking about plasma not ‘clouds of gas’.

The report continued: ‘Although the gas feels a very strong pull from the Sun's gravity, this is not the decisive force acting on the inflows. The high rate at which they gather speed initially, and their eventual slowdown, suggest instead that they are firmly under the control of a magnetic force. A few inflows are a backwash from explosive mass ejections, which are sporadic events, but the overwhelming majority occur quite regularly within regions of slow solar wind.

‘A downpour of 20 inflows per day, seen on the left side of the Sun, can be followed after a lull of two weeks by a similar downpour seen on the right side. This means that the occurrences persist in a particular region on the Sun, which takes two weeks to move from left to right as the Sun rotates. The regional association can continue for months...’.

The inflow events occurred as the Solar Cycle was progressing to Solar Maximum, inflows on one side of the Sun were visible two weeks later on the other side- sunspots can take approximately two weeks to traverse the solar disc! There appears to be a correlation between sunspots and inflow events, almost as if the Birkeland currents, responsible for the formation of sunspots, are causing an avalanche of plasma from the corona toward the photosphere. Plus, the LASCO instrument could only detect inflows on the solar limb, is it possible that there never was a two week lull, rather, the inflows had simply rotated out of the view of SOHO?

The evidence from SOHO indicates that close to the Sun a constant flow of plasma toward the Sun is present. Inflow events were even observed during Solar Minimum but at a greatly reduced frequency and even with the LASCO instrument they were difficult to observe.

Mission scientists as expected, attributed the inflows to ‘collapsing magnetic loops’ rather than an electric current but as a professor of astrophysics admitted to Wal Thornhill ‘When we don’t understand something we blame it on magnetism’ (18).

I suggest that there is a common thread between sunspots, inflow events and Solar Maximum- the incoming current has rotated from low to high solar latitudes (i.e. high to low galactic latitudes) and instead of opposing the FSW at the heliographic equator the current now opposes the FSW up to the higher solar latitudes giving the impression that the FSW has ‘disappeared’.

Solar Cycles: Return to Minimum

Alfven Circuit C.gif


As the cycle continues the main Birkeland current rotates around or moves relative to the heliosphere. Closer to the Sun, in its filamentary form the current rotates around the Sun’s hemispheres and the highly inclined Current Sheet gradually returns to its pre-Maximum value. Sunspots fade, the FSW now unopposed reappears, the corona becomes more lenticular and the magnetic field regains its dipole structure only now we find the solar magnetic field South (negative) is located in the solar northern hemisphere and magnetic North (positive) is located in the solar southern hemisphere.

Cassini Belt and IBEX Ribbon

Galactic Band Ribbon 2.jpg


Cassini is a NASA/ ESA Saturn orbiting spacecraft that has been observing not only Saturn and its moons but the edge of the heliosphere since 2004.

The Interstellar Boundary Explorer or IBEX is a NASA Earth orbiting spacecraft that has been exploring the edge of the heliosphere since 2008.

Both spacecraft have made interesting observations of this boundary region, pertinent to my proposal, some of the major discoveries according to the IBEX Principle Investigator, Dave McComas include: the discovery of an Enhanced/ Energetic Neutral Atom (ENA) Ribbon and its connection to the interstellar magnetic field, the discovery of rapid (~6 month) time variations in the heliosphere’s interstellar interaction and connection to decreasing solar wind output, the discovery that the very local interstellar medium is rotating ahead of the heliosphere (19). Furthermore, according to researchers ‘the Ribbon shows the most complicated time variations, with a levelling off in the southern hemisphere and continued decline in the northern one; these may be consistent with the Ribbon source being significantly farther away in the north than in the south.’ Perhaps this is due to the helical nature of the local Birkeland current.

IBEX also discovered that the structure of the FSW and SSW extend to the edge of the heliosphere (20) and recorded changes over a five year period of what was called the ‘IBEX Ribbon’ for part of solar cycle 24 (21). I propose that these changes at the edge of the heliosphere are directly related to the sunspot and Hale solar magnetic cycles.

The 2D diagram above shows the approximate orientation of the Sun, Cassini Belt and IBEX Ribbon in relation to the Galactic equator.

From this diagram we can see that the Cassini Belt is orientated normal to the galactic equator- the ENA detected in this region are a direct result of the interaction of the FSW with the LISM organised by the galactic Local Interstellar Magnetic Field (LISMF). Observations by Cassini reveal interesting regional changes in the intensity of ENA since 2004 and can be viewed in this document: http://www.helas.gr/conf/2015/talks/S_1/dialynas.pdf

During the descending phase of solar cycle (SC) 23 a concentration of ENA is found in the region called the ‘tail’ by researchers. The region of higher intensity gradually spreads over the high ecliptic latitudes eventually encompassing the whole belt by 2005- the early stage of Solar Minimum. This persists until 2009.

Following a spike in ENA intensity in the ‘nose’ in 2010 the region of higher intensity gradually spreads across the lower ecliptic latitudes back towards the ‘tail’ this coincides with the ascending phase of SC 24.

The onset of Solar Maximum again occurs with the region of high ENA recorded in the ‘tail’.

Therefore, ENA concentrations in the Cassini Belt in the ‘tail’ and ‘nose’ correlate with the descending and ascending phases of alternate Solar Maxima respectively, whilst high ENA concentrations globally distributed across the Cassini Belt correlate with Solar Minimum.

I suggest that this occurs because- as IBEX researchers have pointed out, the IBEX Ribbon has a direct connection to the galactic LISMF- the IBEX Ribbon either is or is influenced by the local Birkeland current. The heliosphere is directly influenced by this primary or secondary current which takes approximately 22 years to cycle past the heliosphere. Twice during this cycle the current will cross the intersection of the galactic equator and ecliptic equator, this corresponds to Solar Maximum. When the current is at high galactic latitudes then this corresponds to Solar Minimum. The global heliospheric magnetic field N-S or S-N alignment then becomes dependent on whether the main current is at high northerly or southerly galactic latitudes.

Galactic Belt Ribbon 3DB.jpg
Cassini Belt and IBEX Ribbon


Twin Peaks

Many sunspot maxima display ‘double peaks’, I suggest that it is Solar Maximum that marks the true end of one cycle and the beginning of the next. For example, assuming that the IBEX Ribbon traces the path around the heliosphere of the local Birkeland current we find that when the current is descending from high northern galactic latitudes to the galactic equator this would correspond to the ascending phase of the Solar Cycle; two peaks appearing as the current crosses the galactic equator indicating magnetic reversal. As the Birkeland current continues to high southern galactic latitudes this would correspond to the descending phase of the Solar Cycle; Minimum would then occur when the current is at its southerly most galactic latitude which would be in close alignment with the ecliptic equator. The ascending phase of the next Solar Cycle then occurs as the current returns to the galactic equator with Solar Maximum ‘double peaking’ as the current once again crossed the galactic equator and the magnetic field reverses once more. The current returns to high northern galactic latitudes corresponding to the descending phase of the Solar Cycle and a return to Minimum.

The Solar Cycle therefore, spans from the descending phase of one cycle to the ascending phase of the next; with the accompanying heliospheric magnetic field orientation dependent on the galactic latitude of the Birkeland current.

Conclusion

Earl Milton wrote: ‘That a negatively charged body like the Sun can increase its charge by emitting a proton wind is reasonable only if the space surrounding the Sun is more negatively charged than is the Sun itself!’ (22) Observations from Ulysses, SOHO, IBEX and Voyager 1 all support this premise and the JMST Electric-Sun model. The electron flow into the heliosphere, which supplies the energy the Sun radiates, takes the form of a rotating filamentary Birkeland current, in other words the sunspot and Hale magnetic cycles are due to an offset rotating 'Alfven circuit' overlying a 'Juergens circuit', with the solar wind, a flow of ions away from the Sun, carrying part of the electric current.

As I mentioned at the beginning, this is a very tentative idea intended to address some issues with the JMST Electric Sun model. Hopefully, I am not, to quote Bob Johnson “trying to modify a theory that was fundamentally flawed from the start” with one that is more so.

References:

1. Juergens. Ralph. E. 1972. Reconciling Celestial Mechanics and Velikovskian Catastrophism. Pensée Vol. 2 No 3.
2. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-3BBS1yq7U7s/T-YBT2pwTVI/AAAAAAAAB5s/RQsap5O-VQA/s1600/Ecliptic+vs+Galactic+Plane.png
3. http://www.plasma-universe.com/Birkeland_current
4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_wind
5. http://www.nasa.gov/jpl/voyager/solar-wind-models-20140723
6. http://sci.esa.int/ulysses/33636-beyond-the-heliosphere/?fbodylongid=1328
7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_layer_%28plasma%29
8. http://sci.esa.int/science-e-media/img/6f/12399%20screen2.jpg
9. http://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/SunspotCycle.shtml
10. http://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2003/22apr_currentsheet/
11. http://www.thesuntoday.org/solar-facts/suns-magnetic-poles-flipped-solar-max-is-here/
12. http://global.jaxa.jp/article/interview/2013/vol79/img/img06_e.jpg
13. http://www.windows2universe.org/sun/atmosphere/sunspot_magnetism.html&edu=high
14. http://sci.esa.int/soho/28320-soho-reveals-how-sunspots-take-a-stranglehold-on-the-sun/
15. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2001/november7/sunspot-117.html
16. http://soho.nascom.nasa.gov/hotshots/2001_11_20/
17. http://sci.esa.int/soho/28996-soho-s-latest-surprise-gas-near-the-sun-heading-the-wrong-way/
18. http://www.holoscience.com/wp/sunspot-mysteries/
19. http://ibex.swri.edu/archive/2013.10.19.shtml
20. http://ibex.swri.edu/archive/2013.07.10.shtml
21. http://ibex.swri.edu/ibexpublicdata/Data_Release_7/
22. Milton. Earl. R. 1980. Electric Stars in a Gravity-Less Electrified Cosmos. SIS Review Vol. 5 No 1.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby upriver » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:25 pm

I spent a few years looking for that Birkeland current that powers the sun.... I had also thought about how the sun passing through a twisted filament might be responsible for the solar cycles..
Still not sure....

The Galactic Environment of the Sun
The heliosphere appears to protect the inner solar system from the vagaries of the interstellar medium.

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues ... -the-sun/1
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:01 am

As I understand it, and please feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken, the primary difference between the model that Alfven preferred vs the one that Ralph Juergens preferred was the notion of a significant external power source, and the amount of fusion that was taking place in and around the sun. Juergen's model allows for (predicts) some amount of fusion to take place around and inside the surface of the photosphere of the sun, about 1/3 of the power generated in Alfven's more "standard" model, but Juergen's model also allows for external currents to provide significant amounts of the overall power output of the sun. Alfven's sun was "wired" together with other "homopolar generators" inside the galaxy and all the galaxies are "wired together". The suns themselves provide the overall power in Alfven's homopolar model of a galaxy.

Where does the bulk of any external power presumably originate in your "updated" model?
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:35 am

Michael,

As you are probably aware, Juergens’ model is purely electrical as opposed to thermo-electric models favoured by Hannes Alfven and Charles Bruce, therefore the external power source is the galaxy itself- as suggested by Juergens. The main difference here is how that power arrives at the Sun.

Juergens appeared to be aware of the possibility that electric currents flow in the spiral arms of the galaxy but he considered that the electrical potential difference would be uniform on the scale of light-years. He suggested that charge was distributed non-uniformly in the galaxy, the galactic nucleus was negatively charged relative to a positively charged surrounding halo thus providing a sufficient potential difference.

What I’m suggesting is that with the data available to us now, charge separation on the galactic scale is no longer necessary and it is possible that currents flowing in the spiral arms of the galaxy do, indeed, power the Sun. These currents are filamentary and locally can be on the scale of hundreds of Astronomical Units not necessarily light-years.

Currently, it is estimated that the IBEX Ribbon is located at a distance somewhere between 140-200 AU, the Ribbon shows asymmetric hemispheric differences and does not form a ‘great circle’ around the heliosphere but is slightly off-set. I have suggested that the Ribbon is or is influenced by the proximity of a local Birkeland current.

The current which arrives at the Sun provides a potential necessary to sustain the solar discharge. If we use the size of the heliosphere as a proxy for the potential difference between the Sun and its environment then it appears that this potential is in a state of flux. For example, both Voyager spacecraft are heading out of the heliosphere in the direction of the ‘nose’- Voyager 1 is north of the galactic equator whist Voyager 2 is south of the galactic equator both are within the latitudinal extent of the Cassini Belt. Voyager 1 crossed the termination shock in December 2004 at a distance of 94 AU during the descending phase of SC 23; Voyager 2 crossed the termination shock in August 2007 at a distance of 84 AU during Solar Minimum.

Conventionally this discrepancy has been explained by suggesting that the heliosphere is squashed in certain directions. Another possibility is that Voyager 1 then located in the SSW stream in the ‘nose’ had recorded an increased potential difference that had peaked 3 years previous. By 2007 Voyager 2, during Solar Minimum, recorded a lower potential difference in the ‘nose’. In this scenario a potential difference is maintained by local currents not charge separation on the galactic scale as envisioned by Juergens. The Alfven circuit too would be a be a manifestation of the Solar Cycle being typical only at Solar Minimum when incoming current is more closely aligned with the heliographic equator.

Regards,
Robert
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Michael Mozina » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:08 am

Robertus Maximus wrote:Michael,

As you are probably aware, Juergens’ model is purely electrical as opposed to thermo-electric models favoured by Hannes Alfven and Charles Bruce, therefore the external power source is the galaxy itself- as suggested by Juergens. The main difference here is how that power arrives at the Sun.


I'm still unclear what you mean when you suggest that the galaxy itself is the power source. How so?

Here's what I'm getting at:

Alfven's "electric sun" model is really a 'nuclear generator' model. The sun is it's own (fusion) power source for the most part. It even acts as a homopolar generator and converts it's own spin energy into electricity over time. It's billion year energy supply comes from inside of the core of every sun just like the standard solar model. Our own solar electrical generator can then be "wired" together with other homopolar generators in the galaxy to produce a stable excess current that could flow throughout the circuitry of the galaxy. Via that circuitry, suns in our own galaxy can even share any excess current with other galaxies as well. By design, the neutrino count of Alfven's electric sun model is necessarily exactly the same as the standard model in every respect. The power supply is internal, and yet it can share electrical energy with other suns as well.

The two solar models (Alfven/Jeurgens) begin therefore with different neutrino count predictions, and different power sources by design.

Jeurgen's however was ultimately more than a little bit "vague" about where the current to power the various suns actually comes from in his model.

What *exactly* generates stable electrical current in excess quantities in your new model that allows for suns to burn consistently for billions of years?
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby upriver » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:02 pm

"The greatest surprise was the ubiquity of filaments in these nearby clouds and their intimate connection with star formation," explains Philippe André from CEA/IRFU, France, Principal Investigator for the Herschel Gould Belt Survey.
"But there is more: these observations revealed that filaments, which may extend to several light-years in length, appear to have a universal width of about one third of a light year. This suggests that something fundamental is lurking underneath."
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-herschel-f ... milky.html

There are 20000AU in a 1/3 of light year. The Solar System is 1,921.56 AU in diameter and moves through space at 515,000 miles per hour. 8760 hours in a year. 1,860,000,000,000 miles/515,000. 412 years for the solar system to move through the average filament... Doesnt match the solar cycle...
Not real good at math so this might be wrong...

Also, how does the filament stay connected to the solar system if the solar system is moving through space?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... arrows.jpg


Looking in our local space I have yet to find a filament that connects to the solar system. And I have been searching for years. That why I came up with alternative models of powering the sun...
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby celeste » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:00 pm

upriver wrote:"
Also, how does the filament stay connected to the solar system if the solar system is moving through space?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... arrows.jpg




The solar system must travel along the filament.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby celeste » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:06 pm

upriver wrote:"The greatest surprise was the ubiquity of filaments in these nearby clouds and their intimate connection with star formation," explains Philippe André from CEA/IRFU, France, Principal Investigator for the Herschel Gould Belt Survey.
"But there is more: these observations revealed that filaments, which may extend to several light-years in length, appear to have a universal width of about one third of a light year. This suggests that something fundamental is lurking underneath."
http://phys.org/news/2015-05-herschel-f ... milky.html



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_He ... Nebula.jpg
Again the section seen in this image is thought to be about 80 ly in length, and 6 to 7 ly in diameter. I'll let you be the judge if 1/3 ly is on the order of magnitude of the individual currents circling here.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby celeste » Fri Apr 29, 2016 7:41 pm

upriver wrote:

Looking in our local space I have yet to find a filament that connects to the solar system. And I have been searching for years. That why I came up with alternative models of powering the sun...



Now, maybe you can help me. Challenge me on any one of these: 1. There is evidence that galaxies are connected like "beads on a string", which is consistent with large scale currents through galaxies. There is evidence of current flow along spiral arms, once we understand Donald Scott's filament model. There is also evidence of current through the local chimney (this would be fit within the flow of current along the closest spiral arm of our galaxy). Then, there is evidence that in the local interstellar medium, there are currents as you say on the order of ly long, but 1/3 ly across. Next, there is evidence of current flowing along the "surface" of these 1/3 ly "filamentary gas clouds". This would be the one Donald Scott uses in his correct explanation of Titius-Bode. Finally, there is evidence of smaller scale filaments running along these,(as shows up in sun spots on the sun's surface, or at the poles of planets).

"Looking in our local space I have yet to find a filament that connects to our solar system". Looking in our local space, I have yet to find a scale on which current filaments do not apply, or help to explain solar system dynamics. Please, I mean this with all due respect. You have given this some serious thought. I hope you will challenge me here.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby BeAChooser » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:33 pm

celeste wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Helix_Nebula#/media/File:False-Color_Image_of_Double_Helix_Nebula.jpg
Again the section seen in this image is thought to be about 80 ly in length, and 6 to 7 ly in diameter. I'll let you be the judge if 1/3 ly is on the order of magnitude of the individual currents circling here.


I like this one ... in the upper right hand corner:

http://cdn4.sci-news.com/images/enlarge ... Nebula.jpg
Last edited by BeAChooser on Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby celeste » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:43 pm

BeAChooser wrote:
celeste wrote:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Helix_Nebula#/media/File:False-Color_Image_of_Double_Helix_Nebula.jpg
Again the section seen in this image is thought to be about 80 ly in length, and 6 to 7 ly in diameter. I'll let you be the judge if 1/3 ly is on the order of magnitude of the individual currents circling here.


I like this one ... in the upper right hand corner:

http://cdn4.sci-news.com/images/enlarge ... Nebula.jpg]


Brilliant! Small scale birkeland currents,right on the "surface" of a larger scale birkeland current.
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:36 am

Michael,

Michael Mozina wrote:
Jeurgen's however was ultimately more than a little bit "vague" about where the current to power the various suns actually comes from in his model.

What *exactly* generates stable electrical current in excess quantities in your new model that allows for suns to burn consistently for billions of years?


My model is not exactly my model. Instead I regard it more of an extension to the existing theorising of the authors listed in the opening paragraph and as a possible way forward following the criticism of the theory by Bob Johnson.

As for Juergens being vague about the source of the current required to power the Sun (and stars) I believe he was quite accurate- it is simply what would now be termed the LISM. Furthermore Juergens went on to explain, in electrical terms, the differing modes of discharge that power Population I and Population II stars.

Unfortunately, stability is not guaranteed when it comes to the electric sun/star hypothesis as a star’s characteristics are a product of its environment. Indeed, when we look at the Sun in x-rays it is a variable star and as I mentioned previous the size of the heliosphere may well be variable. Our notion of ‘stability’ comes from the constant(?) appearance of the photosphere but there is no reason to assume that this mode of discharge has always existed or will continue to exist indefinitely.

As for the ‘exact’ power source, if you accept the electric sun/star model as a viable hypothesis then the answer is simple- charge separation in a plasma. As I have previously stated the Sun is highly negatively charged but its environment carries an even greater charge in the negative sense. We now have an electrical potential difference and an electric current will flow and attempt to equalise the charges. A well known characteristic of plasma is the double layer and as the Sun’s potential is alien to that of its environment a double layer forms to contain the alien potential within a ‘sheath’. Now, the interstellar plasma is very tenuous, free electrons are scarce and can be captured by stray ions and dust particles hence current flow from the LISM is restricted; as the Sun does not have enough electrons in its make-up to equalise the charge imbalance the plasma of the LISM ‘attempts’ to correct this electron deficiency but its ‘attempt’ is hindered and it simply cannot equalise the two potentials. Free electrons that do make it across the sheath arrive at the solar surface making it hot and liberate a vast amount of energy in the process.

Photospheric granules, Juergens explained, are regions of further ionisation (plasma in the arc discharge mode) of the solar atmosphere which liberate yet more electrons to stabilise the discharge, effectively subsidising the insufficient number of electrons arriving from the LISM.

I am suggesting that this charge is being delivered cyclically and accounts for the observed phenomena at the solar surface and throughout the region of the Sun’s electrical influence i.e. the heliosphere.

Regards,
Robert
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby Robertus Maximus » Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:02 am

upriver wrote:Looking in our local space I have yet to find a filament that connects to the solar system.

upriver,

Thanks for the interesting Herschel link but it looks like celeste and BeAChooser have beaten me to it. What I was going to say was this, that we do have evidence of current filaments at all scales –from galactic superclusters to ‘flux-ropes’ in Earth’s magnetosphere- as celeste has pointed out.

Quite often mainstream astronomy isn’t looking for these filaments hence the continuing source of ‘surprise’.
The IBEX Ribbon was another ‘surprise’. This would not be the first time a current filament was discovered by surprise or accidentally.

Regards,
Robert
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby BeAChooser » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:04 pm

Robertus Maximus wrote:
upriver wrote:The IBEX Ribbon was another ‘surprise’.


Indeed. When it was announced, David McComas, the principle IBEX investigator, said "This is a shocking new result. We had no idea this ribbon existed–or what has created it. Our previous ideas about the outer heliosphere are going to have to be revised.” And noting that the ribbon runs perpendicular to the direction of the galactic magnetic field. McComas said "That cannot be a coincidence." But he didn't understand what it means. Instead, he remarked "We're missing some fundamental aspect of the interaction between the heliosphere and the rest of the galaxy." I'll say. What he and the other investigators were/are missing are the physics that Alfven and the electric universe community have been trying to point out to them for 50 years. They're still thinking in terms of neutral particles, mechanical effects and gravity. They just keep making the same mistake over and over and over.

The filamentation observed at the boundary of our solar system is not what was expected by the mainstream. But it was anticipated by electric universe theorists. Here is a report on the largest computer model the mainstream had built for the universe up till 2007: http://www.physorg.com/news116170410.html . While noting that "much of the gaseous mass of the universe is bound up in a tangled web of cosmic filaments that stretch for hundreds of millions of light-years", the report didn't ONCE refer to the material in the filaments as being "plasma", nor did it recognize that electromagnetic effects naturally tend to organize plasmas into long filaments. The model didn't include any of those effects ... only gravity. And THAT is the problem with the mainstream. They have their head in the sand. There is now so much imagery of helically wound filaments and even stars forming along such filaments, that there can be no other explanation for their not seeing the obvious by now.

For example, here's a great image that shows stars forming along filaments ... indeed, helically wound pairs of filaments if you look close:

http://www.esa.int/var/esa/storage/imag ... ky_Way.jpg

Here’s an even better image from the Hershel database of filaments in that star nursery (From http://inspirehep.net/record/1255052/plots ):
 
http://inspirehep.net/record/1255052/files/fig8.png
 
Look at the bottom filament.  If you don’t see the characteristic spiraling double helix structure of Birkeland filaments, you’re downright blind.  If you don’t see the stars forming along those filaments, you’re downright blind.

Here’s another Hershel image (from http://phys.org/news/2013-11-stars-born ... weigh.html ):
 
http://cdn.phys.org/newman/gfx/news/hir ... orninf.png
 
Again you can clearly see the spiraling helix Birkeland filaments (indicating electric current) and stars forming along them.  But sadly, the source states that “the Herschel Space Observatory has revealed that the star forming sites across the Milky Way are riddled with filaments: tube-like structures of gas and dust that span tens of parsecs [1 parsec = 3.26 light-years] within molecular clouds. Although the existence of such structures has been known for quite a few years, this is the first time that we can resolve them and start exploring their nature and properties, thanks to this ESA satellite. Despite the fact that we do not really understand how filaments are formed their importance in the star forming process is apparent as we observe most of the embryonic stars to be located on such structures.

Since modern day astronomers have been taught (indoctrinated) in sterile university environments controlled by Big Bang believers, they likely never even heard of Birkeland currents, Bennet pinches, and the theory Plasma Cosmologists like Hannes Alfven.  So it’s no wonder they don’t understand how filaments are formed (they thinks it by gravity or *wind*) or see their importance in forming stars.  It’s no wonder they are just now even getting around to even taking a close look at filaments.  It’s no wonder they publish garbage like this, http://herschel.esac.esa.int/SFaxz2014/ ... HacarA.pdf , which doesn’t even contain the words plasma or Birkeland.  It’s no wonder they miss the significance of multiple what they call “subcritical” filaments making up what they call “critical” filaments (i.e., the ones that form stars).  It’s no wonder they miss the significance of polarization vectors along the filaments that are perpendicular to filaments 

http://inspirehep.net/record/1273530/fi ... e_fig3.png

(they indicate electric currents are traveling down the filaments and producing magnetic fields).   It’s no wonder they miss the significance of the spiral/helix structure in those filaments (even though it’s been staring them in the face for 30 years). They miss all that because their *education* has the words “gas” and “gravity” bouncing around in their Big Bang brainwashed brains and little else.  That and “dark matter” and “black holes”. :roll:
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Re: Alfven and Juergens Circuits, a Reconciliation? 2.0

Unread postby upriver » Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:29 pm

Robertus Maximus wrote:
upriver wrote:Looking in our local space I have yet to find a filament that connects to the solar system.

upriver,

Thanks for the interesting Herschel link but it looks like celeste and BeAChooser have beaten me to it. What I was going to say was this, that we do have evidence of current filaments at all scales –from galactic superclusters to ‘flux-ropes’ in Earth’s magnetosphere- as celeste has pointed out.

Quite often mainstream astronomy isn’t looking for these filaments hence the continuing source of ‘surprise’.
The IBEX Ribbon was another ‘surprise’. This would not be the first time a current filament was discovered by surprise or accidentally.

Regards,
Robert


Oh absolutely... There are filaments at all scales.
I am looking for this structure in particular. This is the EU structure...
http://www.holoscience.com/wp/wp-conten ... onment.jpg


In my travel I looked at Solar polar Plumes as the starting place for an input to the sun. It turns out that the solar polar plumes are an outflow.
http://solarphysics.livingreviews.org/A ... lese2.html

You would think that even in dark mode the should be some sort of detectable signal from a Birkeland current. Most of them emit some sort of IR.

Heres a nice graphic with a distance scale...
http://sredfield.web.wesleyan.edu/image ... hic_07.jpg

But I did find these papers today.
CORRECTING THE RECORD ON THE ANALYSIS OF IBEX AND STEREO DATA REGARDING VARIATIONS IN THE NEUTRAL INTERSTELLAR WIND
http://astro.uchicago.edu/~frisch/2015F ... record.pdf

EVIDENCE FOR AN INTERSTELLAR DUST FILAMENT IN THE OUTER HELIOSHEATH
http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.00353v1.pdf
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