Mysterious clumps of matter around star

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Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby Drethon » Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:41 am

Mostly mystified scientists are just bad reporting but at initial glance, it looks like scientists are seriously confused:

http://arstechnica.com/science/2015/10/closer-look-at-a-star-turns-up-mysterious-clumps-of-matter/
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby BecomingTesla » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:34 pm

"The researchers discuss a few possible explanations for this strange behavior, such as massive (but rare) asteroid-like bodies colliding and releasing dust, as well as spiral waves triggered by instabilities in the system’s gravity."

Sometimes, I really have to wonder why it seems like astrophysicists are just incapable of thinking outside of any kind of box beyond freaking gravity and collisions. Discrete clumps of matter moving in coherent patterns, as they're sitting in a giant bath of plasma, right next to a massive electrical oscillator thats ringing like a bell? The matter is moving faster the father away they are from the star? Do they *maybe* want to consider any kind of electrical explanation for what they're seeing? Just mull it over, maybe?

“One explanation for the strange structure links them to the star’s flares. AU Mic is a star with high flaring activity—it often lets off huge and sudden bursts of energy from on or near its surface. One of these flares could perhaps have triggered something on one of the planets—if there are planets—like a violent stripping of material which could now be propagating through the disc, propelled by the flare’s force.”

And of course, since there can't be anything electrical about stars - even their own magnetism - the high flare activity isn't indicative of any kind current/electrostatic fluctuations in the star, which *might* have some structural effect on the matter residing in the area. Given that it's plasma...

Y'know, not everything that the EU thinks is going to be correct. There's a *lot* that I don't buy into here. But the need to start switching our perspective from gravitation to circuit theory and electromagnetism isn't one of them. These people have all been trained to think of every problem in the exact same way, with the exact same tools, with the exact same perspective. Monocultures deplete all of the nutrition from the soil; monopolistic scientific cultures suck the creativity out of their students. These people aren't going to get anywhere.
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby scowie » Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:59 pm

Maybe it's not a disc at all — maybe it's a polar jet :?:
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby Frantic » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:07 pm

It's amazing that they can look at those images and think of gravitation theory at the same time without realizing the contrast.
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby Zyxzevn » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:59 pm

Here is another good example of how much the standard model for star forming differs from reality.

Image

Both top images are real images from hubble.
The bottom images are how they should look like according to the model.

About the real images:
They show branching clouds that join together in the star in the center.
There is even some zig-zagging in the left image.
There is no real disk.

If I would only look at the images, I would suggest that the clouds form vortices.
And these spirals might be caused by the same force that causes spirals and other structures
on the nearest star (our sun).
That force would be electricity and magnetism, in combination with nuclear fusion.

But the mainstream model is a simple disk, with no reasons for any fluctuations.
They must be blind or something.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby Metryq » Thu Oct 08, 2015 5:43 am

Remember that nebular hypothesis requires the "shockwave"—traveling through what medium?—of a nova to set an interstellar cloud to collapsing and rotating. How is a common center arranged?

Zyxzevn, maybe the real images are quantum mechanical interference patterns passing through dark matter slits. The images would look like the bottom pair if no one was observing the objects.
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby seasmith » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:28 am

We reprocessed images from the Hubble data and ended up with enough information to track the movement of these strange features over a four-year period," explains team member Christian Thalmann (ETH Zürich, Switzerland). "By doing this, we found that the arches are racing away from the star at speeds of up to about 40 000 kilometres/hour!"
The features further away from the star seem to be moving faster than those closer to it


Reminiscent of Voyager I behavior.
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby celeste » Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:20 pm

scowie wrote:Maybe it's not a disc at all — maybe it's a polar jet :?:

Absolutely! If we are seeing a rotating disk edge on, we should see highest redshift on one side, tapering as we move away from center. We should also see highest blueshift on the other side of the object, again tapering off with distance from center. That would be a rotation curve for an edge on disc.

A jet, as you propose, would have increasing redshifts and blueshifts as we move away from center. This just means that the jet is not perfectly aligned across our field of view, but is more towards us on one side (with increasing blueshift as the jet accelerates towards us), and away from us on the other side (with increasing redshift on the other side). Then of course, we just need to correct for actual acceleration/deceleration of the jets.

Short answer, of course, is that you are right. And those jets do have more apparent "clumping" of mass on one side of the object, as shown here http://www.wolaver.org/space/m87jet.htm
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Nasa finds dyson sphere?

Unread postby Influx » Mon Oct 19, 2015 7:19 pm

http://www.cnet.com/news/the-full-story-behind-the-alien-megastructures-scientists-may-have-found-but-probably-didnt/

Wouldn't it be more likely that the star's output varies because the star's electrical input is unsteady?
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Re: Nasa finds dyson sphere?

Unread postby Pi sees » Mon Oct 19, 2015 10:11 pm

I reckon it could be a gigantic array of teapots...
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Re: Nasa finds dyson sphere?

Unread postby Metryq » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:29 am

Actual facts: erratically flickering light curves from a distant star
Assumptions: things orbit stars, so something must be "transiting" the star—along our line of sight, of course
Conclusion: alien-made Dyson sphere

And they say EU proponents make wacky, incredible proposals. Once upon a time, Venus was a jungle planet with dinosaurs, and all redshift is due to the Doppler effect because we said so, even when it does not dovetail with all observations.
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Re: Nasa finds dyson sphere?

Unread postby Regulus » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:57 am

Just as an aside; would there even be enough matter in a solar system to make a complete sphere? Or would you be stretching it to build a ring like the one in Larry Niven's 'Ring World' books? Which I really enjoyed btw.

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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby Influx » Tue Oct 20, 2015 7:05 pm

On second thought, it could just be "star spots." Since the dimming is not consistent. Won't a massive "star spot" dim a star? And because the star rotates it will cause an illusion of something transiting in front of the star.
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby saul » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:03 pm

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1509.03622v1.pdf

Bear in mind the observation is from the Kepler satellite and is solely a flux (light) vs. time curve. The light from the star drops off up to 80% on occasion. This is weird, but one should first look at theories that allow for stellar variability before intervening matter, right?! Right?! Anyone out there??
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Re: Mysterious clumps of matter around star

Unread postby allynh » Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:44 am

Here is an article that goes with the first arxiv paper, from September 2015.

Citizen scientists catch cloud of comets orbiting distant star
By Jacob Aron
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn ... tant-star/

(Image: NASA)

A crowdsourced group of planetary detectives may have spotted a massive cloud of comets orbiting a distant star.

NASA’s exoplanet-hunting Kepler space telescope spent four years carefully watching the same patch of sky, looking for any stars that dipped in brightness. These dips happen when an orbiting planet crosses in front of the star, and measuring their size and timing provides astronomers with data about the planet.

Most Kepler data is processed automatically by algorithms looking for repeating patterns, but a website called Planet Hunters lets citizen scientists inspect the data by eye in an effort to spot anything unusual.

Data from one star, known as KIC 8462852, was so strange that people started labelling it “bizarre” and “curious”. Orbiting planets block their stars’ light for a few hours or days at regular intervals that correspond to the duration of their orbit. But this star seemed to have two small dips in 2009, a large, weirdly asymmetric dip lasting a week in 2011 and a series of many dips during three months in 2013, some reducing the brightness of the star by as much as 20 per cent.

Explaining the signal

“It was kind of unbelievable that it was real data,” says Tabetha Boyajian of Yale University, who led a team of astronomers investigating the signal. But after checking and double checking for anything that could have gone wrong with the telescope, they decided the signal must be real – and were forced to come up with an explanation. “We were scratching our heads. For any idea that came up there was always something that would argue against it.”

With the aid of ground-based observations, the team ruled out variability from the star itself or interference from other nearby stars. Instead they decided the star was being covered by clumps of dust. But where did the dust come from?

Collisions within an asteroid belt around the star, or a smash-up between two larger bodies like the one thought to have produced the Earth and moon in our solar system, wouldn’t produce all of the dips in starlight.

Having worked through the other possibilities, the team concluded the most likely explanation is a family of exocomets that veered close to the star and were broken up by its gravity, producing huge amounts of dust and gas in the process. If the comets are on an eccentric orbit passing in front of the star every 700 days or so, further breaking up and spreading out as they go, that could explain all the dips in the data.

Cosmic-scale fireworks

KIC 8462852 is about 50 per cent larger than our sun, so if this comet explanation is correct, the dust cloud would be pretty big. It would be an impressive sight up close, says Boyajian. Something that size in our solar system would blot out a significant amount of sunlight. When Earth passes through the debris clouds left in interplanetary space by passing comets, we get meteor showers. There’s no evidence of a planet in the KIC 8462852 system, but someone standing on such a world as it passed through the dust cloud would see quite a light show, says Boyajian. “The scale of the meteor shower would be huge, like cosmic-scale fireworks.”

More data will help pin down the true nature of this strange signal. Kepler stopped working properly in 2013, so the team haven’t been able to track the star as well as they would like. There were no observations of the star in April 2015, when the next dipping events might have occurred, but the team are planning to keep an eye out in May 2017. “It’s really frustrating that the light curve got really, really exciting right before the Kepler mission died,” Boyajian says.

Still, the team says Planet Hunters was instrumental in finding this signal in the first place. There could be more oddities hiding in the data we already have.

“Planet Hunters have gone through maybe about half of the Kepler light curves, so there is still a whole lot to be viewed and classified,” Boyajian says.

Reference: http://arxiv.org/abs/1509.03622
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