Comet 67-P the result of 2 body fusion

[madkevo]

hi all,
guess you spotted this in the news today. I think Wal already discounted this quite a while ago.
http://news.discovery.com/space/rosetta ... 150928.htm
Cheers,
MK

[moonkoon]

Comet 103-P/Hartley, which was visited by NASA's Epoxi mission in 2010 also has a lobed shape but compared to 67-P, its neck is longer, making it more of a dumbell shape.



If these two comets are examples of fusion of two previouly separate bodies then perhaps one might expect a rotational axis about the neck, no?

[willendure]

Most comets we have visited so far have this shape. I think the chances of a prevalence of two body collisions in comets are very slim. On that alone, I do not believe this hypothesis.

I think it is more likely that electrical effects have eroded then into this particular shape.

[Frantic]

So the description is : Two bodies collide, the colliding sides warm up sort of squish together, and then refreeze.

So I slam two ice cubes together, i can try over and over and over, but they either break or slide off each other, don't know why I can't make it work. I mean obviously it works, right?

Edit : forgot, it is dirty ice, so that explains it. The dirt compresses, heats the pockets of ice, the pockets of ice burst, they jet out into each other, and refreeze. right?

Is there a scenario for anyone that this fusion makes sense?

[seasmith]

Don't know about ice cube fusion, but most EU-minded folk reckon that comets acquire a distinctive charge in their travels. Is it possible for two space-traveling crustal fragments to have, or acquire, relatively opposing charges ?
Do we know that the lobes are "fused" ? Maybe they are just mushed together electro-statically and the crumby union is hidden by all the dust and debris?
I don't know.

[Frantic]

I think we need to understand the processes sculpting the shape of these comets. I think once that is understood, only then can we begin to theorize whether it is one or two bodies.

What is causing the pits, what is causing the dust jets? I haven't heard an answer that makes any sense. Seems convenient to just say they fused and not answer the questions.

There are clearly active processes sculpting the comet. I believe the irregular shapes are trying to tell us something important and we are not listening.

[seasmith]

Frantic wrote: What is causing the pits, what is causing the dust jets? I haven't heard an answer that makes any sense.

Dusty comets ...

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... &start=720

Wouldn't matter act differently under high-E, low-G conditions ?

[moonkoon]

There is a discussion on this NASA page about the variability of comet Hartley's 'jet' composition. One ends emits carbon dioxide and ice while the neck region emits water vapour. But the picture is complicated by ground based observations which suggest that the coma composition does not change with the varying composition and volume of emissions.

... Beyond that, Mumma says, "this tells us that the overall composition of the gas in the coma did not change." Taken by itself, this might seem to imply that the core of the comet is uniform. But when the findings of the EPOXI science team are considered, the picture gets more complicated. The fact that the gases all vary together is somewhat puzzling, because EPOXI found a large variation in the release of carbon dioxide relative to water," ...

... It is speculated that the variability may be due to a "hodge-podge of mini-comets come together to form the core for a comet". ...

This speculation begs the question as to why the composition of the proposed 'mini comets' might vary.

Note also that plumes/jets observed to be erupting from icy Enceladus resemble superficially at least the comet jets. They are said to be mainly sodium rich water but also contain silica and methane. Perhaps a similar process is responsible for both phenomena?

[willendure]

I believe the irregular shapes are trying to tell us something important and we are not listening.

I totally agree.

It is unlikely to be a coincidence that such a high proportion of comets we have visited have this 'peanut' shape. I think it is telling us that the comet is being eroded more from the middle than the ends.

They are charged, and are rotating, inducing a magnetic field. I think the solar wind is being guided along the magnetic field lines and being concentrated onto the middle section as a result, causing more erosion there. After a long enough period of time has passed, the result is a peanut shape.

Comets that do not have this shape could be younger comets, because they have not been around for long enough to be eroded into this shape.

[moonkoon]

Some thoughts on the 'jets'.

The fact that
a) the 'jets' appear to emit a preponderance of H2O and CO2 together with a certain amount of CH3 and other organics,
b) the 'jets' appear to emanate from an apparently dry and dusty/rocky surface, or within centimetres of the surface,
c) the surface appears to be predominately composed of actual dust and rock, i.e. silicates, which is largely Silicon and Oxygen and
d) the surface itself is showing signs of erosion,

invites speculation (well it does to me anyway ) about alternatives to the radiative warming explanation for the origin of these 'jets'.

One possible alternative which I think has been mentioned on this forum previously is some type of induced or spontaneous transmutation process which converts the Silicon to Carbon and Hydrogen (Oxygen is present in the silicate), ...a sort of low energy cold fission. And such a thing does actually exist, cold fission has been demonstrated in heavy elements, so it is not just a theory.

Cold fission ... is defined as involving fission events for which fission fragments have such low excitation energy that no neutrons or gammas are emitted. Cold fission events have so low a probability of occurrence that it is necessary to use a high flux nuclear reactor to study them. ...

If something like cold fission is occurring then it is most likely taking place in the presence of an electron cloud as the products are observed to be complete atoms or molecules. So the process would include normal electron based chemistry but with some added fission chemistry for good measure.

Would Otto Hahn approve of the idea? I don't know, but I suspect he would give it more than a passing glance.

[seasmith]

Willendure wrote: It is unlikely to be a coincidence that such a high proportion of comets we have visited have this 'peanut' shape. I think it is telling us that the comet is being eroded more from the middle than the ends.

That's the hypothesis put forward lat year, and the one i favor as well.

However, they have detected a "100 amp electric current" around the comet, fwiw...

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 3&start=75

[Osmosis]

Have the few passes/landings on comets or asteroids resulted in direct magnetic field measurements? If so, were they total field or vector magnetometers?
Osmosis

[Frantic]

I think they had basically detected no magnetic field, or magnetization of the 67P comet.

[Osmosis]

If there is current flow to/from the comet, there is a magnetic field generated by the current.

Osmosis

[seasmith]

If there is current flow to/from the comet, there is a magnetic field generated by the current.

Osmosis

Perhaps irrelevant, but it is "around" the dielectric body.
Transistor 'gate' current ?