Ok, you lost me there. Please explain why you think the Moon should be pulled away from Earth.Zyxzevn wrote:The sun could easily remove our moon from our planet, but it does not do that.
Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
-
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:29 pm
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
- Zyxzevn
- Posts: 1002
- Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:48 pm
- Contact:
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
I was biased here, due to seeing too many instable simulations.querious wrote:Ok, you lost me there. Please explain why you think the Moon should be pulled away from Earth.Zyxzevn wrote:The sun could easily remove our moon from our planet, but it does not do that.
The orbits are chaotic, but stable for millions of years.
Earth itself is older than that (>4 billion years), so it will be interesting to find out if its
orbit might have changed. If we simulate accurately with time going backwards we may see it.
I want to implement accurate calculations for planetary (and moon) orbits for different models of gravity,
to see how they differ.
More ** from zyxzevn at: Paradigm change and C@
-
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:29 pm
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbit_of_ ... _evolutionZyxzevn wrote:I was biased here, due to seeing too many instable simulations.querious wrote:Ok, you lost me there. Please explain why you think the Moon should be pulled away from Earth.Zyxzevn wrote:The sun could easily remove our moon from our planet, but it does not do that.
The orbits are chaotic, but stable for millions of years.
Earth itself is older than that (>4 billion years), so it will be interesting to find out if its
orbit might have changed.
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Aside from the circular reasoning... why don't all the nucleus end up away from the center of mass, if the whole system is set up by a positive feedback originating in the London force? I mean, it would seem from his description that that is just as likely.kaublezw wrote: But I'm confused at around 40:00. He seems to suggest that gravity pulls the nucleus of atoms towards the center of mass, thus causing a small electric dipole within the atom, thus causing gravity? It seems to be a circular reference. What am I missing? Is it that the London force gets things started?
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
I think he said that during free fall the nuclei would return to the centre of the atoms, so the dipole is no longer present. But if the dipole is responsible for the force that we experience as gravity, then there would be no acceleration during a fall would there?kaublezw wrote: Later on he suggests that if we are falling, during our fall, we have no mass? I was confused by that as well.
This theory of gravity is utter nonsense.
- D_Archer
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Tying gravity to matter is not nonsense.willendure wrote:This theory of gravity is utter nonsense.
Wal correctly ascribes gravity as a surface phenomena, which is correct. Miles Mathis does the same thing in his theory.
---
Only thing i really did not like was saying that a star on one side of the galaxy has to be able to "see" a star on the other side, whih FTL or something. A strange proposition since in EU you already have the greater (A Birkeland Current) dominating the motions, the stars are in the same maelstrom, no "direct" connection needed.
Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
-
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:29 pm
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Willendure,willendure wrote:I think he said that during free fall the nuclei would return to the centre of the atoms, so the dipole is no longer present. But if the dipole is responsible for the force that we experience as gravity, then there would be no acceleration during a fall would there?kaublezw wrote: Later on he suggests that if we are falling, during our fall, we have no mass? I was confused by that as well.
This theory of gravity is utter nonsense.
You forgot that kaublezw also said... "I'm not interested in reasons why you think the theory is wrong."
So please stick to thinking up ways to make this theory workable! Maybe the Aether just wants to get out of the way of falling objects, creating a vacuum that sucks things down? Why not?
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
But that would be an entirely different theory..?querious wrote: Willendure,
You forgot that kaublezw also said... "I'm not interested in reasons why you think the theory is wrong."
So please stick to thinking up ways to make this theory workable! Maybe the Aether just wants to get out of the way of falling objects, creating a vacuum that sucks things down? Why not?
Sorry, I just feel Thornhill's presentation is as full of holes (circular reasoning, arguments that defy logic) as the standard model of the sun. Indeed, he has some great presentations on the sun and it was one of his videos on the sun that got me interested in EU. But this presentation on gravity is so bad as to be almost an embarrassment. I don't think it helps at all in getting EU ideas accepted, its just material that critics can point at and label us all as crackpots.
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Why does a metal sheet not shield gravity, if this is all true? In the same way that a metal sheet will shield an electrical field? Thornhill claims this is not the case, because the atoms in the metal sheet will also "daisy-chain" the effect. Ok, but to daisy chain the dipole effect, the atoms need to be close together. So if the metal sheet is lying on the ground, perhaps that could happen. What if the metal sheet was suspended in the air, held perhaps by chains from above? That would air-gap the sheet from the surface and break the daisy chain. In fact, just putting the metal sheet on a table surface ought to be enough.
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Or what about calculating the trajectory of a probe sent out to explore the planets by NASA? They use Newtons equations to determine how it will be affected by the gravity of the planets. If the force were repulsive at larger distances instead of attractive, then the probes would not have travelled as expected. We got pictures back from Pluto just fine, so I think that kind of debunks that idea. Also, if gravity is determined by charge on a body, what would the charge on the probe be, coming from earth? Would it change or not as it travelled through space, and how would that affect its trajectory? What about Cassini, the probe that was zapped by Hyperion? Did that change its trajectory under gravity? No.
As I say, this is utter nonsense.
As I say, this is utter nonsense.
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Then there are the experiments where we try and measure G, by using two large metal spheres and directly measuring their force of attraction when brought close together. They do attract, but why would that be the case if gravity is polarized as in Thornhill's theory? Out of three bodies, that is the two spheres and the earth, only 2 should attract if that is the case.
-
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:29 pm
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
I totally agree, I was just being sarcastic.willendure wrote:But that would be an entirely different theory..?querious wrote: Willendure,
You forgot that kaublezw also said... "I'm not interested in reasons why you think the theory is wrong."
So please stick to thinking up ways to make this theory workable! Maybe the Aether just wants to get out of the way of falling objects, creating a vacuum that sucks things down? Why not?
Sorry, I just feel Thornhill's presentation is as full of holes (circular reasoning, arguments that defy logic) as the standard model of the sun. Indeed, he has some great presentations on the sun and it was one of his videos on the sun that got me interested in EU. But this presentation on gravity is so bad as to be almost an embarrassment. I don't think it helps at all in getting EU ideas accepted, its just material that critics can point at and label us all as crackpots.
- D_Archer
- Posts: 1255
- Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 4:01 am
- Location: The Netherlands
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Just float some aluminium on a magnet, anti-gravity right there.willendure wrote:Why does a metal sheet not shield gravity, if this is all true? In the same way that a metal sheet will shield an electrical field? Thornhill claims this is not the case, because the atoms in the metal sheet will also "daisy-chain" the effect. Ok, but to daisy chain the dipole effect, the atoms need to be close together. So if the metal sheet is lying on the ground, perhaps that could happen. What if the metal sheet was suspended in the air, held perhaps by chains from above? That would air-gap the sheet from the surface and break the daisy chain. In fact, just putting the metal sheet on a table surface ought to be enough.
Regards,
Daniel
- Shoot Forth Thunder -
-
- Posts: 605
- Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:29 am
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
Are you being sarcastic too?D_Archer wrote: Just float some aluminium on a magnet, anti-gravity right there.
-
- Posts: 564
- Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:29 pm
Re: Thornhill's Latest Gravity Presentation
D_Archer wrote:Just float some aluminium on a magnet, anti-gravity right there.willendure wrote:Why does a metal sheet not shield gravity, if this is all true? In the same way that a metal sheet will shield an electrical field? Thornhill claims this is not the case, because the atoms in the metal sheet will also "daisy-chain" the effect. Ok, but to daisy chain the dipole effect, the atoms need to be close together. So if the metal sheet is lying on the ground, perhaps that could happen. What if the metal sheet was suspended in the air, held perhaps by chains from above? That would air-gap the sheet from the surface and break the daisy chain. In fact, just putting the metal sheet on a table surface ought to be enough.
Regards,
Daniel
Hmmm, I just tried it and the aluminum just sat on the magnet. Darnit!
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 52 guests