"No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Sparky » Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:18 am

viscount:
Ok to add to that--wouldn't there be a fuzzy ball of errant/stray photons that have collected around the BH over the aeons?


I don't think so. They either escape or are drawn in....If you assume that photons will obit the mass as larger particles do, then you would see xray and other generated photons that escape. My understanding is that energy/mass is used for those that escape, allowing the photons that gave up their energy/mass to be collected into the BH.

The stars orbiting a BH will eventually be pulled in or thrown out of their orbit.

But if the BH object is really a plasmoid, the orbiting stars are held by electric force, and their orbits will circularize. :? ithinkcauseireallydonno.. :?
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:17 am

Sparky wrote:viscount:
Ok to add to that--wouldn't there be a fuzzy ball of errant/stray photons that have collected around the BH over the aeons?


I don't think so. They either escape or are drawn in....If you assume that photons will obit the mass as larger particles do, then you would see xray and other generated photons that escape. My understanding is that energy/mass is used for those that escape, allowing the photons that gave up their energy/mass to be collected into the BH.[/quote]
Ok but according to the theory nothing can actually be observed from our reference frame to ever fall in. There will be a group of matter waiting until infinity to fall in. The black hole should be a very bright place--the opposite of black.

Sparky wrote:The stars orbiting a BH will eventually be pulled in or thrown out of their orbit.
Sure.

Sparky wrote:But if the BH object is really a plasmoid, the orbiting stars are held by electric force, and their orbits will circularize. :? ithinkcauseireallydonno.. :?
Ok but what is observed is a group of stars orbiting--all orbiting--in eccentric beehive-like swarms around the region. That defies conventional BH theory as well as leads to more questions as to what the region is, ergo, why is this behavior not scalable? Why is our galaxy and others confined to a flat disc when the "central black hole" features highly eccentric orbits of stars from every angle around the alleged black hole region? (not confined to an equatorial plane)
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Mon Jan 27, 2014 3:58 pm

viscount aero wrote:
Sparky wrote:viscount:
Ok to add to that--wouldn't there be a fuzzy ball of errant/stray photons that have collected around the BH over the aeons?


I don't think so. They either escape or are drawn in....If you assume that photons will obit the mass as larger particles do, then you would see xray and other generated photons that escape. My understanding is that energy/mass is used for those that escape, allowing the photons that gave up their energy/mass to be collected into the BH.

Ok but according to the theory nothing can actually be observed from our reference frame to ever fall in. There will be a group of matter waiting until infinity to fall in. The black hole should be a very bright place--the opposite of black.

Sparky wrote:The stars orbiting a BH will eventually be pulled in or thrown out of their orbit.
Sure.

Sparky wrote:But if the BH object is really a plasmoid, the orbiting stars are held by electric force, and their orbits will circularize. :? ithinkcauseireallydonno.. :?
Ok but what is observed is a group of stars orbiting--all orbiting--in eccentric beehive-like swarms around the region. That defies conventional BH theory as well as leads to more questions as to what the region is, ergo, why is this behavior not scalable? Why is our galaxy and others confined to a flat disc when the "central black hole" features highly eccentric orbits of stars from every angle around the alleged black hole region? (not confined to an equatorial plane)
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:18 am

viscount:
There will be a group of matter waiting until infinity to fall in. The black hole should be a very bright place--the opposite of black.


Brightness of "black" would be a function of the mass being taken in,wouldn't it? :D If there is little mass available, then it would be black. Lots of available mass would light up the exterior, out to the edge of dynamic reactions.

I see mass being gravitationally pulled toward the BH. If at some point the mass's speed reaches a level where radiation is produced, then that radiation that is directed toward the observer will have sufficient speed/energy to escape gravitation of BH, but only if is outside the Event horizon. Just outside the event horizon the radiation produced would tend to be captured by BH. Only a small portion would be vectored toward any observer. The Event Horizon, a sphere of gravity,, because of it's pull and shape would make escape very difficult for smaller masses.

Those stars that you see "swarming" will probably crash into the BH, after being perturbed by another star. That will "light" up! :D

Talking about nonsense is fun. One can say anything with conviction. :D :oops:
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:41 am

I think part of the reality ascribed to black holes is due to their fascinating consequences if they were real. As objects, like mythical beasts, the fantasy of what they would do, how they would behave, their ecology, IS fun to contemplate. It's one of the most popular things I find on science forums even if they are pure conjecture. It's "intellectual porn" :D
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Metryq » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:32 pm

Sparky wrote:Talking about nonsense is fun. One can say anything with conviction. :D :oops:


What sort of silliness are you hocking now?
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:37 pm

Metryq wrote:
Sparky wrote:Talking about nonsense is fun. One can say anything with conviction. :D :oops:


What sort of silliness are you hocking now?

Black holes :lol:
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:36 pm

What sort of silliness are you hocking now?


Sparky hawking Hawking! ;) :D
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby scowie » Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:54 pm

viscount aero wrote:The EU, as counterpoint, declares the dark region to be a dark mode "plasmoid." This would predicate that the "swarm of bees" orbiting the region were electrically attracted to it. Yet the Milky Way has a galactic plane, an equatorial zone, scaling itself up from a solar system. So why does the "black hole" feature a behavior around it that does not mirror a solar system or a galaxy? Why are the stars chaotically orbiting the "plasmoid?" Shouldn't the behavior of the stellar orbits about the plasmoid scale up to the size of the galaxy? Why doesn't it?

I would say that the chaotic orbits of these stars reflect their temporary nature. They don't exist at that location long enough for stabilising forces to flatten out their orbits. I would suggest that stars spiral towards the galactic centre and keep some of the oscillation above and below the galactic plane that they had when they were further out. I'd say those stars are in their death throws, about to fall into Sagittarius A* to be disintegrated, with their matter then getting spewed out into the intergalactic medium, hence...

It is no surprise to me that these "black holes" are found to spew out the main constituents of stars, iron! ;)

Btw, another problem for mainstream theory and black holes is the complete absense of any gravitational lensing of the stars that closely orbit Sag. A*. If there is such a thing as gravitational lensing, this should be the most obvious place to find it.
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Tue Jan 28, 2014 8:34 pm

scowie wrote:
viscount aero wrote:The EU, as counterpoint, declares the dark region to be a dark mode "plasmoid." This would predicate that the "swarm of bees" orbiting the region were electrically attracted to it. Yet the Milky Way has a galactic plane, an equatorial zone, scaling itself up from a solar system. So why does the "black hole" feature a behavior around it that does not mirror a solar system or a galaxy? Why are the stars chaotically orbiting the "plasmoid?" Shouldn't the behavior of the stellar orbits about the plasmoid scale up to the size of the galaxy? Why doesn't it?

I would say that the chaotic orbits of these stars reflect their temporary nature. [/quote]
Yes I agree. I may have alluded to that.
scowie wrote:They don't exist at that location long enough for stabilising forces to flatten out their orbits.
yes
scowie wrote: I would suggest that stars spiral towards the galactic centre and keep some of the oscillation above and below the galactic plane that they had when they were further out. I'd say those stars are in their death throws, about to fall into Sagittarius A* to be disintegrated, with their matter then getting spewed out into the intergalactic medium, hence...
so you believe in black holes


scowie wrote:It is no surprise to me that these "black holes" are found to spew out the main constituents of stars, iron! ;)
so you believe in black holes

scowie wrote:Btw, another problem for mainstream theory and black holes is the complete absense of any gravitational lensing of the stars that closely orbit Sag. A*. If there is such a thing as gravitational lensing, this should be the most obvious place to find it.

So you don't believe in black holes ;)
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby scowie » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:52 am

I don't believe in black holes. I believe it is the electric force rather than gravity that is pulling these stars in, i.e. a negatively charged plasmoid attracting positively charged stars. I imagine there would have to be a lot of matter at Sag. A* anyway, or maybe a concentrated flow of it, I just don't believe there has to be an event horizon.
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby quantauniverse » Thu Jan 30, 2014 6:24 am

The galaxy's center is a collective supernova phenomena. magnetic fields steer charged particles towards the center vortex, and bipolar jets accelerate them away. It's a scaled up supernova. There is no center of a spinning moving galaxy. The temps are near absolute zero, practically the same as superfluid helium, which is used to mimic the math in special relativity. The anti-gravity of superfluids explains the confusion of a gravitational singularity. Labs show how all types of radiation are produced when lasers hit it. The phony labeled black hole is this phase change under high mag fields and pressures. Stars form only up to largest sizes near the galaxy center because only cold gas triggers star formation when this phase change occurs quickly. Black holes only consume or accrete cold inflows, and spew out all hot gas. Galaxies, superclusters, hyperclusters, are all the same phenomena without black holes. The plasmoid is included in the superfluid black hole.
The idiotic spaghetti effects of an astronaut falling into it really needed to be discarded.
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jan 30, 2014 7:27 am

It has been unclear whether the jets are caused by the spin of the rotating black hole, or if they originate from the disk of matter that surrounds the black hole.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencen ... z2rtHpRPy1


A BH would be a sphere, wouldn't it.... :? Why would it spin? :?

And how does a disk surround a sphere.... :roll:

Sounds like 2D thinking.... ;) :D
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby viscount aero » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:52 am

Sparky wrote:
It has been unclear whether the jets are caused by the spin of the rotating black hole, or if they originate from the disk of matter that surrounds the black hole.

http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencen ... z2rtHpRPy1


A BH would be a sphere, wouldn't it.... :? Why would it spin? :?

And how does a disk surround a sphere.... :roll:

Sounds like 2D thinking.... ;) :D

I imagine theoretically its angular momentum would be conserved and the so-called event horizon would simply be a an orbital region, like any planet has around a star. Except in the case of the BH, the "accretion disk" would be analogous to planets. But wait... how did the alleged BH get to the exact center of the galaxy and why? Why would a star only collapse into a BH there?

In other words, there is an inherent problem with cause and effect. Is it the assumption that, at a point in time, there were no black holes at the centers of galaxies and then for some reason one star at the center decided to collapse into a black hole? And this behavior is repeated at the center of every galaxy? Why?

Moreover, there is no accretion disk observed at the center of the Milky Way (unless it is in non-visilbe wavelengths). But there is a cadre of eccentrically orbiting stars from every angle around the region. Why? This is never explained in press releases and contradicts the mainstream's very assertions about an orbital plane around a BH. At Sag A there isn't one.
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Re: "No Black Holes" says Hawking!

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:09 pm

angular momentum would be conserved


Momentum from when? The star goes through an inflation, implosion to singularity.

would angular momentum be part of that? :?


No accretion disk!!!! Maybe an accretion sphere or "region". :?

Of course there would be no "jets" of matter.. :?

First Cause? Galaxy was oval. One of the first stars went BH. Centering all other objects on it.... :? 8-)

:D













?
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