Recovered: Iron Sun Theories

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:34 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "junglelord"

No not a Tesla Coil.

His work beyond the Tesla Coil led to the Impulse Longitudinal Radient Energy Generator. In all respects a Z Pinch. I may be the first person to publicly state that or make that connection but the evidence is undeniable.

Please take the time to digest the history of his work.
<Mod Note: old forum link no longer valid; however this one may suffice if not the same as original: http://thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/v ... p?f=3&t=53>
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Man lives in the sunlit world of what he believes to be reality. But there is, unseen by most, an underworld, a place that is just as real, but not as brightly lit... a Darkside."

Last edited by junglelord on Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:57 am; edited 2 times in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:51 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

- MM, thanks for the detailed answers. The flattened star mentioned by Thornill was the sun, I'm pretty sure.
- The reason I asked if the sun might be a ball of water and or ice is that I was trying to think of a source of oxygen to produce the sulphur on the sun. I didn't give it a lot of thought, so that was just a quick idea that came to mind. Since Io seems to have a mostly solid ice surface, with areas of hills or mountains of sulphur [I don't remember if they're considered purely sulphur, or a mixture], I thought it might be remotely possible for the sun to have an icy surface with even more sulphur, esp. since I've also heard a theory that the sun is progressively cooler toward the center. It seems a pretty far-fetched idea [an icy sun], but I think it's worth bringing up such ideas anyway sometimes. I'll have to check out what Kervran said, so I can see if there might be a way to go from H, He, Ne, or Ca to O and Fe. Aren't those the layers O.M. suggested? I think Calcium can go to Silicon to Iron. I don't remember the route to Oxygen or Sulphur yet.
- Why can't the sun's surface below the photosphere be molten or semi-molten, instead of solid?
- Why don't you ask Thornhill what he thinks of your iron sun model and your reasoning for it? I think you can write him via his website at holoscience.com. Don Scott probably does not consider the neutron star core model of the sun plausible [neither do I so far], but he did indicate that he's open to the possibility of an iron or solid surface sun. Thornhill is or was open to a solid surface on Jupiter and maybe Saturn and, since he considers them brown dwarf stars or remnants, it doesn't seem he should be too opposed to a solid surface sun.
- It seems like there ought to be a much faster way to get all you pros to organize your arguments in simple form and come up with a probability for each theory based on least contradictions of known data. I'm referring to your theory, O.M.'s, Brant's [upriver], Thornhill's, Don Scott's and maybe David Thompson's at least.
- What keeps all you folks from collaborating to determine the answer to what kind of electric sun we have?

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:36 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

Would the solid portion of Birkeland's terella be considered mere solid?

Yes. IMO I see myself as a Birkeland "purist". In other words Birkeland's terella experiments contained a hollow sphere with a solid metallic surface. I am proposing that the sun has a mostly metallic crust. In that way it is exactly like Birkeland's model. The magnetic core that Oliver proposed many decades ago would also tend to align with Birkeland's powerful EM core inside his terella. It's pretty much Birkeland's model, from the magnetic core to the solid surface to the plasma atmosphere that electrically interacts with the ISM. It's pretty much a pure Birkeland model.

Or could an electrified solid be considered a solid plasma? Or would the plasma just be flowing through the solid structure?

I would think that most people would think of the wire as a solid that conducts a plasma stream of electrons. In the case of solar activity it's just plasma streams of electrons flowing through various ions that serve the same function as the wire.

Yes, I would have to agree with you Michael. If you want to know how the sun works, just look at Birkelands work, and take it literally.

A metal(center hollow, thick wall)sun with a magnetic field that is internally generated by a current flow in a solenoidal direction.

Now heres that part where I'm having a little problem.

Assuming a radial electrical field(inward moving electrons), you basically have to say for every electron that goes out, one has to go in....

How strong would the field have to be to power something like a quasar or some other high output object that is a "star". It seems like the outward flow would be so strong as to overwhelm the inward flow, especially with a disc around it.

Thats why I propose a resonance system where the sun receives longitudinal waves(not affected by ordinary matter) from the galactic center, and transforms them into outward flowing electrons(electricity) kinda like a radio antenna works.
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[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:54 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

Junglelord, since your so into Tesla(coils) and such, I thought I would share what I though to be the correct explanation as to what they are and why they work. I also believe this to be the correct aether theory out of all the ones that I have read. If you know of any that I have not, please let me know.....

AS2-13(Re-)examination of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils, Part 1: Experimental determination of its dual nature
http://www.aetherometry.com/abs-AS2v2A. ... ractAS2-13
Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils, Part 2:
http://www.aetherometry.com/abs-AS2v2A. ... ractAS2-14
Aetherometric treatment of the energy radiation output by Tesla coils, Part 3:
http://www.aetherometry.com/abs-AS2v2B. ... ractAS2-16
The indirect 'orgone effect' of Tesla radiation: ambipolar aether and blackbody radiation spectra
http://www.aetherometry.com/abs-AS2v2B. ... actAS2-17A

POWER FROM AUTOELECTRONIC EMISSIONS
Our point of departure was a serendipitous observation - made while studying sustained X-ray production - of quasi-regular discontinuities in glow discharges having a minimal positive column at very high vacua (10E-5 to 10E-7 Torr) and at low to medium voltages (10-50 kV DC). These events, which were associated with X-ray bursts, spontaneously originated localized cathode discharge jets that triggered the plasma glow in a fashion quite distinct from the flashing of a photocathode or from an externally pulsed plasma glow. It would soon become apparent that these discontinuities were elicited by spontaneous electronic emissions from the cathode under conditions of current saturation of the plasma glow, and could be triggered with much lower applied DC field strengths. The discharge was distinct from the VAD regime in that the plasma channel was self-starting, self-extinguishing, and the regime was pulsatory (79). In fact the discharge could be mimicked with externally interrupted VADs, analogous to chopped current arcs (80-81).
http://www.aetherometry.com/PAGD/Pwrfro ... chor135950

Fundamental Concepts of Aetherometry
Aetherometry, the exact science of the metrics of massfree energy (Aether), is a novel biophysical and nanometric science, or scientific discipline, developed by Dr. Paulo N. Correa and Alexandra N. Correa as a synthesis of experimental and analytical work that replicated, revised and continued the scientific contributions of Nikola Tesla, Louis de Broglie, Wilhelm Reich (orgonomy, orgonometry), René Thom (catastrophe theory) and Harold Aspden. Its object of study is massfree energy.
http://www.encyclopedianomadica.org/bin ... f_Aetherom

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[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

so I can see if there might be a way to go from H, He, Ne, or Ca to O and Fe. Aren't those the layers O.M. suggested? I think Calcium can go to Silicon to Iron.

O, N, H, He and several other trace inert gases arrive on the incoming neutral gas stream. And H(protons) are also ejected from the solar surface by thermionic emission or the "ionization"(EDM) of minerals.

All of the metals/material must be made in the local galaxy, possibly with the exception of the material brought in on a gas stream connecting an ejected galaxy.

So they have to be built up through nucleosynthesis, or fusion.

Temperatures for CNO have been observed on the solar surface.

Fusion takes place in plasma pinches of all sorts. The bigger the event the heavier the materials created. GRB's, supernova, pulsars(not neutronium) pinches on the solar surface, lightning strikes. The list goes on.
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[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Monday night astrophysics Reply with quote
OP "kovil"

MM,

Inspiration strikes.

If there is a super-dense central core of small size at the center of our Sun, would natural forces allow a semi-superfluid to surround the core so that it maintains its angular momentum more easily over time ? Then, some distance further outward the iron rich portion would begin and extend up to near the surface as we have observed, with the lighter elements mass fractionated above that, as the atmosphere etc.

The trans-300 elements would be the matter surrounding the core. Further outward would be the elements between the trans-300 elements and that of the normal matter, with which we are familar. Those short lived elements between the trans 300 and those in the peninsula of normal matter would be the semi-superlfluid, short lived in their nuclear half lives, and that is how they become semi-superfluid, as the intense gravity and pressure and heat/temperature keeps re-making them by neutron re-absorption after decay. The 'neutron soup' within the semi superfluid matter is the 'slip' that enables the superfluidity. Maybe that is how neutrons migrate from the core upward, thru the trans-300 elements and then into the semi-superfluid layer, and that maintains their semi-superfluidness; before stabilizing into the domain of stable matter, in the peninsula of 'normal matter'.

In the super-dense core the pressure-cookered electrons are playing whole-court basketball with two neutrons (as Dobson likes to metaphore it), so that Heisenberg doesn't know where they are for more than 15 minutes, and this is the state of matter beyond the massiveness of the 300 protons/neutrons in an atomic nucleus of the trans-300 elements; that of the core.

Those elements postulated in the 'island of stability' which have a longer life than the very short half-lives of the elements between the Island of Stability and those in the peninsula of stable matter, would be what is closest to the super dense core.

The next question is how does the magnetic field benefit from all of this?
And why would nature prefer the iron to not be at the core or even near the core; and nearer to the surface?

And how does this lend to the polarity reversals on an 11 year cycle or 22 year cycle, depending on how you like to view it?


The solar iron mantle 9:47 PST additional

Like the Earth's mantle, equaling roughly 50% of its diameter and made mostly of silicon constituency; the Sun's mantle would be perhaps a little greater than 50% of its diameter and made mostly of iron and blended with other elements, in ways like the Earthly mantle is blended.

How would this affect the magnetic field, having a spherical iron shell rather than a lump in the center? Ahh, am now remembering one of the Earth problems of an iron core being non-magnetic at temperatures above 1400 F. Welding class returns! Delta iron and non magnetic, as it is becoming plastic or semi-fluid, and will not hold its atomic orientations to be a permanent magnet. Although iron may have nothing to do with the magnetic field's arising in that sense, it may react to the magnetic field but not be a part of its generation.

Perhaps the iron shell of the Sun would, by is plasticity, be a drag or have a time lag in its reaction to the magnetic field, and in this way somehow cause the magnetic field reversals ?

As per Sentient Marine's post, I too have wondered if, as the Sun moves around the Galaxy, does it cross galactic magnetic field lines and that causes the magnetic field reversals. But, how far does the Sun move in 11 or 22 years in relation to the galaxy's size? It seems to be much too small a distance, for the galactic magnetic field lines would have to be exceedingly close together in order for the Sun to be changing between field lines, that it seems not probable. So I am still looking for possible mechanisms.

Last edited by kovil on Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:42 pm; edited 3 times in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:03 pm Post subject: Red Sun Reply with quote
OP "Sentient Marine"

With regards to the 11 and 22 year cycle is there a corresponding rotation of our solar system with respect to our position in this arm of the galaxy. That is do we flip over ever eleven years like upending an electric armature through the current flow?

I know this will sound strange but using the right hand rule the electric current needs to be vertical to the plane and the rotation to be matched to the great attractor anti clockwise for the sun to act as a motor.

If the sun is the electric motor for our solar system and our arm of the galaxy the line of movement for current then a solar system rotation would keep the magnetic fields the same and yet reverse the polarity ever 11 years.

Having spin for particles may be the missing link for quantum mechanics as the action of the magnetic field for particles. It should all link together and as for the long term history of magnetic field reversals there should be an alternating pattern of rapid strong cold reversal and slow weakening hot reversal. That should be an indicator of what to expect from our sun this time around and more precisely the strength and nature of its position in the moving structure of the galaxy.
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"Nature is obliged to allow reality determine laws whereas mathematics is under no such constraint."

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Monday night astrophysics Reply with quote
OP "Raphael"

With regards to the 11 and 22 year cycle is there a corresponding rotation of our solar system with respect to our position in this arm of the galaxy. That is do we flip over ever eleven years like upending an electric armature through the current flow?

I know this will sound strange but using the right hand rule the electric current needs to be vertical to the plane and the rotation to be matched to the great attractor anti clockwise for the sun to act as a motor.

If the sun is the electric source or link for our solar system and our arm of the galaxy the line of movement for current then a solar system rotation would keep the magnetic fields the same and yet reverse the polarity every 11 years.

Having spin for particles may be the missing link for quantum mechanics as the action of the magnetic field for particles. It should all link together and as for the long term history of magnetic field reversals there should be an alternating pattern of rapid strong cold reversal and slow weakening hot reversal. That should be an indicator of what to expect from our sun this time around and more precisely the strength and nature of its position in the moving structure of the galaxy.

Quarks spin and in the battle of matter vs anti-matter, guess who wins?
Who would we proclaim winner in a world that is based primarily on visible interactions?
We anointed matter the champion, because out of every 100 million quark and anti-quark collisions ... only one quark remains standing.

This battle lead to the observation that the weak force violates parity.

Which means the universe is NOT symmetrical.
And to understand how the theorists changed their theories to reflect this...we would need to introduce Mirrors.

And mirrors suggest chiral asymmetry is paramount in an understanding of the underlying dynamics of rotation, spin, polarity, etc.
Why?

Because our L and R Hands which are in FACT chiral asymmetric mirror images thus refer primarily to left and right handedness.

Thus your reference to the 'right hand rule' is very cool. IMHO
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... -and-2012/

SMarine I misquoted the following, something you said with intent, to poise a question.
The changes I made are noted.

If Binary Star/Planet X/Cathode is the electric motor for our Sol/solar system/Anode and our arm of the galaxy the line of movement for current then a solar system rotation would keep the magnetic fields the same and yet reverse the polarity many times every 25920 years.
A direct reference to Precession of the Equinoxes[/quote]

Which makes the 4 inner metallic planets like Earth...behave like individual battery cells or capacitors, Leyden Jars?

What happens when the anode and cathode are placed closer to each other?
As the two binary objects move toward each other?
Can we consider two suns ... one to be the anode and other, its 'binary companion a cathode?

Question

namaste
_________________
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/

Last edited by Raphael on Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject: Re: Monday night astrophysics Reply with quote
OP "Raphael"

With regards to the 11 and 22 year cycle is there a corresponding rotation of our solar system with respect to our position in this arm of the galaxy. That is do we flip over ever eleven years like upending an electric armature through the current flow?

I know this will sound strange but using the right hand rule the electric current needs to be vertical to the plane and the rotation to be matched to the great attractor anti clockwise for the sun to act as a motor.

If the sun is the electric source or link for our solar system and our arm of the galaxy the line of movement for current then a solar system rotation would keep the magnetic fields the same and yet reverse the polarity every 11 years.

Having spin for particles may be the missing link for quantum mechanics as the action of the magnetic field for particles. It should all link together and as for the long term history of magnetic field reversals there should be an alternating pattern of rapid strong cold reversal and slow weakening hot reversal. That should be an indicator of what to expect from our sun this time around and more precisely the strength and nature of its position in the moving structure of the galaxy.

Quarks spin and in the battle of matter vs anti-matter, guess who wins?
Who would we proclaim winner in a world that is based primarily on visible interactions?
We anointed matter the champion, because out of every 100 million quark and anti-quark collisions ... only one quark remains standing.

This battle lead to the observation that the weak force violates parity.

Which means the universe is NOT symmetrical.
And to understand how the theorists changed their theories to reflect this...we would need to introduce Mirrors.

And mirrors suggest chiral asymmetry is paramount in an understanding of the underlying dynamics of rotation, spin, polarity, etc.
Why?

Because our L and R Hands which are in FACT chiral asymmetric mirror images thus refer primarily to left and right handedness.

Thus your reference to the 'right hand rule' is very cool. IMHO
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/2007/1 ... -and-2012/

SMarine I misquoted the following, something you said with intent, to poise a question.
The changes I made are noted.

If Binary Star/Planet X/Cathode is the electric motor for our Sol/solar system/Anode and our arm of the galaxy the line of movement for current then a solar system rotation would keep the magnetic fields the same and yet reverse the polarity many times every 25920 years.
A direct reference to Precession of the Equinoxes

Which makes the 4 inner metallic planets like Earth...behave like individual battery cells or capacitors, Leyden Jars?

What happens when the anode and cathode are placed closer to each other?
As the two binary objects move toward each other?
Can we consider two suns ... one to be the anode and other, its 'binary companion a cathode?



namaste
_________________
http://kachina2012.wordpress.com/about/

Last edited by Raphael on Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:01 pm; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:42 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "junglelord"

Well this is good stuff indeed. Revelations and ideas coming together. I have another. If the metal sphere of the sun runs as a Tesla Z Pinch then the entire mystery is solved. Tesla's Impulse Transformers were restrictive capacitors on both primary and secondary. He used sphereical and conical shaped copper shapes to achieve the best Coronal Whitefire Star Light with his Direct Current discharges. The outward radient pressure is well described by Tesla and cannot be shielded by a Faraday Cage. The electrostatic watts to volts with no current in the coil allows huge amounts of volts with no magnetic induction.

Therefore the Four Field Theory of Electricty now starts to come together.
Four Currents: Transverse Electromagnetic: DC + AC
Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric: Impulse + Oscillating

The Sun is merely a Oscillating Tesla Impulse Transformer Z Pinch with all the phenomenon of those waves. The Corona and the voltage of the corona is one specific expectation, the other is the pressure wave. The reversals are unipolar as expected but I do not know why. The theory ventured was a good idea on galactic terms. If I remember correctly the difference in the pole temperature would be based on the type of electricity we are dealing with. Longitudinal Magneto Dynamic is DC and is temperature different at the two poles. I believe the conicol shape of the innear faster moving section of the sun is interesting when considered on its own.

The Meyl model of Vortex Electric Field Theory best explains the fundamental state of matter/antimatter and energy. The Field takes over the function of the Aether.
_________________
Peace, Live Long and Prosper.

Man lives in the sunlit world of what he believes to be reality. But there is, unseen by most, an underworld, a place that is just as real, but not as brightly lit... a Darkside."

Last edited by junglelord on Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 3:48 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "StefanR"

Fundamental Concepts of Aetherometry
Aetherometry, the exact science of the metrics of massfree energy (Aether), is a novel biophysical and nanometric science, or scientific discipline, developed by Dr. Paulo N. Correa and Alexandra N. Correa as a synthesis of experimental and analytical work that replicated, revised and continued the scientific contributions of Nikola Tesla, Louis de Broglie, Wilhelm Reich (orgonomy, orgonometry), René Thom (catastrophe theory) and Harold Aspden. Its object of study is massfree energy.
http://www.encyclopedianomadica.org/bin ... f_Aetherom

Everybody his preferences of course and it might give a good discription of a lot of phenomena , but when they are talking about Gravitons they lost me.
Also refering to :

Aetherometric Natural Philosophy
Aetherometric natural philosophy owes its fundamental roots to the thoughts of Baruch Spinoza, Friedrich Nietzsche, Henri Bergson, Wilhelm Reich, Gilles Deleuze and Felix Guattari. Reality is a physical multiplicity, a complex multiplicity, not because its substratum is material but because it is energetic. The composition of the physical multiplicity of the Real is the infinite work-process of physical and biological systems of machines. Machines and systems are either closed (mechanisms) or open (or autopoietic).

Shivers down my spine.

Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric: Impulse + Oscillating

Maybe some sort of resonance is established with the as broadband transmitter acting galactic core?
_________________
"And surely struggle against him we must in every possible way who would annihilate knowledge and reason and mind, and yet ventures to speak confidently about anything."
Plato, Phaedo

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "biknewb"

Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric: Impulse + Oscillating

Maybe some sort of resonance is established with the as broadband transmitter acting galactic core?

This might be a promising line of thought: longitudinal energy transfer over galactic distances!
I have been trying for a while to imagine longitudinal electromagnetic waves (not very succesful).

regards
and I don't believe in gravitons too..

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:30 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "arc-us"

....I have been trying for a while to imagine longitudinal electromagnetic waves (not very succesful).
....

For me, the best I can manage is analogy with an EM ocean or sea. With, and without, gradient density interfaces like "surface" manifestations and ... "bubbles," particulate matter, and such. For whatever that's worth ... or not.

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:56 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "junglelord"

Water is a good illustration. Meyl calls it the Hydromagnetic Field.

Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric Energy travels as a Potenial Vortex in this Field. In this point vortex fields clearly differ from the transverse propagating electromagnetic waves!

The electron and the positron are both vortex fields of opposite rotation. The electron/positron vortex pair can account for all mass particles and the massless two particle Photon. Without potential vortices no stability, no matter, no energy nor information would exist!

It reveals to us a basic principle basing on duality in which the dual partners mutually dictate target values and goals. This principle convinces by its simplicity and efficiency.

Apart from the "self regulation" it obviously also has the fundamental possibility of a "self organization" and the "generation of information". The field equations of the hydromagnetic field thus are the starting-point for the formation not only of matter and energy, but also of information.

Information is nothing but a structure of electromagnetic vortex fields!

Only the vortex and not the wave exists in two forms of formation dual to each other, and the principle of duality again is the prerequisite for the formation of information, of self organization and finally for the evolution.
_________________
Peace, Live Long and Prosper.

Man lives in the sunlit world of what he believes to be reality. But there is, unseen by most, an underworld, a place that is just as real, but not as brightly lit... a Darkside."

Last edited by junglelord on Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:30 am; edited 1 time in total

[bboyer]

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 11:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "arc-us"

Water is a good illustration. Meyl calls it the Hydromagnetic Field.
Longitudinal Magneto Dielectric Energy travels as a Potenial Vortex in this Field. The electron and the positron are both vortex fields of opposite rotation. The electron/positron vortex pair can account for all particles and the two particle Photon.

I need to read some of the material you've posted/referenced regarding Meyl. Stefan had first mentioned him months ago, I think, in the Cymatics thread and had posted a video link. But I couldn't grasp very much from the translation that I'd found there.

[Off Topic soapbox - against my better judgement ] Perhaps a large part of the difficulty in the proliferation of so many theorists, each with their own lexicon of technical jargon to first learn and de-cipher, is the Tower of Babel thing. A multitude of voices, each speaking their own terminology, and the message just ends up floundering in a sea of noise. I am reminded of the Taoist viewpoint (paraphrased): the Tao that can be spoken is not the (real/true/authentic) Tao.

Maybe one day will come when the chorus of voices will find their choir-master and the dischordance will transform to some semblance of harmonious music to both choir and audience. And, no, it's not the notion of something akin to a messiah to which I refer. [/soapbox]

Best,
Arc-us
(We are the ones we have been waiting for - Hopi Elders. Corrollary: "You are the one you have been waiting for" - @rc-us)

Best,
Arc-us