Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:33 pm

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:07 pm Post subject: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"

WARNING - DO NOT READ AFTER A HEAVY MEAL

Seriously, it almost makes me lose my lunch to read garbage like this so soon after mealtime.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 100235.htm
October 5, 2007

Shining A Light On Mysterious 'Dark Matter'

Science Daily — We've all been taught that our bodies, the Earth, and in fact all matter in the universe is composed of tiny building blocks called atoms. Now imagine if this weren't the case. This mind-bending concept is at the core of the scientific research that one Florida State University professor -- and hundreds of his colleagues all over the world -- are pursuing.

Imagine... yep!

"Recent scientific breakthroughs have shown that most of the matter in the universe -- about four-fifths -- is not made up of atoms, but of something else, called 'dark matter,'" said Howard Baer, FSU's J.D. Kimel Professor of Physics. "The evidence for dark matter is now overwhelming, and the required amount of dark matter is becoming precisely known."

There is no '"evidence" of dark matter, period.

... "For example, the gravitational effect of dark matter makes galaxies spin faster than one would otherwise expect," Baer said. "Also, dark matter's gravitational field distorts the light of objects behind it -- creating the so-called 'lensing effect.' By measuring these sorts of phenomena, we can tell that the universe is full of some sort of 'stuff' that we just can't see."

Can't see 'lectricity, but at least we know it works...

Despite this progress, the exact identity of dark matter remains a mystery.

Obviously the commentator has not heard of 'lectricity either...

"Current constraints on dark matter properties show that the bulk of dark matter cannot be any of the known particles," Baer said. "The existence of dark matter is at present one of the strongest pieces of evidence that the current theory of fundamental particles and forces, summarized in the Standard Model of particle physics, is incomplete. At the same time, because dark matter is the dominant form of matter in the universe, an understanding of its properties is essential to determine how galaxies formed and how the universe evolved. Therefore, the discovery of dark matter is among the most important goals in science today."

Current constraints on dark matter properties show that we theoretical physicists have no concept of reality whatsoever. The existence of dark matter at present is one of the wildest pieces of conjecture we have come up with, and is in serious conflict with particle physicists' understanding of real matter. At the same time, because we say dark matter is the dominant form of matter in the universe, an understanding of its properties is essential to our funding for years and years, at least until I retire...

Don't expect any conclusive data right away, Baer said.
"The identification of dark matter will most likely not be immediate, but will rather unfold gradually," he said.
Don't expect any conclusive data, ever ... the identification of dark matter will most likely not be until long after I retire, if at all... but I won't care then, lol.

Cheers, a rather queasy, Dave Smith.

:lol: 8-)
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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:06 pm

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 2:22 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Solar"

That article reminded me of the movie "Wag the Dog".
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:08 pm

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Plasmatic MnemoHistory"

I think my past comments fit here quite well:
O.K. lests see something that we arent seeing that is so effectual that it must be the most influential , prevalent thing in the universe?.....hmmmmmmm.scribbles some more math.....closes his eyes and visualizes the latest sci fi flick.......hmmmm....a radio in the back is tuned to a science show 2 guys are talking, faintly audible "plasma is

99.9 percent of the univers, its force is billions of times more powerful than gravity...............the NASA scientist still performing calculations with his eyes shut..they begin to flutter ................Ive got it there mut be an invisible dimension ,invisable ......uh... pacman eating photon pellets and matter.... uhhhhhh ...scribbles some equations ....Yep thats it , clearly my equation demonstrates if..........
In light of :
"Recent scientific breakthroughs have shown that most of the matter in the universe -- about four-fifths -- is not made up of atoms, but of something else, called 'dark matter,'"
Its almost pathological;im posting this in my "red handed" thread.
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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:19 pm

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: Re: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?... Reply with quote
OP "mgmirkin"
davesmith_au wrote: WARNING - DO NOT READ AFTER A HEAVY MEAL

Seriously, it almost makes me lose my lunch to read garbage like this so soon after mealtime.
... "For example, the gravitational effect of dark matter makes galaxies spin faster than one would otherwise expect," Baer said. "Also, dark matter's gravitational field distorts the light of objects behind it -- creating the so-called 'lensing effect.' By measuring these sorts of phenomena, we can tell that the universe is full of some sort of 'stuff' that we just can't see."

Can't see 'lectricity, but at least we know it works...

:| :cry: :shock:

*Holds it in, just barely.*

So, basically what they're saying is that by using gravity alone, they cannot explain how galaxies are spinning as fast as they actually are.

In order to use an "electrically-neutral" / "electrically-sterile" model and only rely on "gravitation," they have had to invent a fictitious entity "dark matter" to magically add mass that has not actually been observed at all.

And in order for the model to work, dark matter must compose some odd 21+ % of the energy in the universe? Not to mention the 70+ % "dark energy." So, they're saying that unobserved / fictitious entities have overtaken actually observed / verifiable entities as the prime movers and shakers in the universe in their models? Shouldn't that be the first indicator that there are grave problems with the "standard model?"
InTheDark2.jpg
InTheDark2.jpg (11.11 KiB) Viewed 15798 times
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... matter.htm
InTheDark1.jpg
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/ ... energy.htm

http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/ ... anding.htm
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/ ... galaxy.htm
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/ ... e-dark.htm

Why can't they just admit they were wrong for inventing hypothetical, fictitious stuff with no observational basis in order to cover up their lack of true understanding. Now they're trying to use any and every means possible to retrofit observations to their notions of "dark matter" and "dark energy" to prop them up, so they don't have to go back to the drawing board (and have to consider large scale electrical interactions; likewise, the plasma effects, magnetic fields, etc.). Circular reasoning on their part to be sure...

We're chasing a ghost with taxpayer dollars.

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:20 pm

Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 11:19 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP ""Discipline

That article did absolutely nothing to prove anything. It did not explain Dark Matter as a theory and it did not shine any light on anything.

It is just inflated hype.
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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:22 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:24 am Post subject: Re: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?... Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"
davesmith_au wrote: Cheers, a rather queasy, Dave Smith.

:lol: 8-)

Well Dave, at least it's good to know that I'm not the only one that wants to hurl every time I hear about another great "discovery" some cosmologist has made about "dark matter" from images of objects that are light years away. Considering that the stuff is reported to be so plentiful, you think they could at least round up a bucket full of the stuff, or a *controlled* experiment to demonstrate that it's not a figment of their overactive imagination, and a cosmic fudge factor of epic proportions,. But NOOOOOO........

It seems that any wild idea is "respectable" *except* anything related to 'lectricity. :idea:
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:24 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:31 am Post subject: Re: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?... Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"
mgmirkin wrote: *Holds it in, just barely.*

So, basically what they're saying is that by using gravity alone, they cannot explain how galaxies are spinning as fast as they actually are.

In order to use an "electrically-neutral" / "electrically-sterile" model and only rely on "gravitation," they have had to invent a fictitious entity "dark matter" to magically add mass that has not actually been observed at all.

And in order for the model to work, dark matter must compose some odd 21+ % of the energy in the universe? Not to mention the 70+ % "dark energy." So, they're saying that unobserved / fictitious entities have overtaken actually observed / verifiable entities as the prime movers and shakers in the universe in their models? Shouldn't that be the first indicator that there are grave problems with the "standard model?"
Ya think? Smile ROLF. That one made me chuckle out loud. Imagine being in any other field of science and claiming that whatever the cause of the observation in question, it's not related to electricity and plasma physics, instead it's related to invisible elves and magic faeries, and normal matter makes up a mere 4% of the effect that's being observed.

Why can't they just admit they were wrong for inventing hypothetical, fictitious stuff with no observational basis in order to cover up their lack of true understanding. Now they're trying to use any and every means possible to retrofit observations to their notions of "dark matter" and "dark energy" to prop them up, so they don't have to go back to the drawing board (and have to consider large scale electrical interactions; likewise, the plasma effects, magnetic fields, etc.). Circular reasoning on their part to be sure...

We're chasing a ghost with taxpayer dollars.

The part that irks me the most is the last part. It's bad enough they live in Lala land at their own expense, but hearing this nonsense from people that my tax dollars go to support really irks me no end.

Taxation without representation has never gone over well in this country. Smile Time for a science revolt. I'm tired of watching my tax dollars wasted on chasing elves and faeries.
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:27 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:55 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

Yes, I did grab my bucket before I read that one.......

Wow, flabbergasted, confused? Wait I have a better idea...

"For example, the gravitational effect of dark matter makes galaxies spin faster than one would otherwise expect," Baer said. "Also, dark matter's gravitational field distorts the light of objects behind it -- creating the so-called 'lensing effect.' By measuring these sorts of phenomena, we can tell that the universe is full of some sort of 'stuff' that we just can't see."

My head is spinning faster, could it be that I have invented a darkmatter detector....

Warning Will Robinson...
Holy Egg shaped galaxy Batman....
Up and Atom... Atom Ant...
Never fear Underdog is here..I will save you Polly...
Go Speed Racer GOOOOOOO.....
May the Force be with you.....
Go ahead Make My Day.....
Carpe Diam........
And So On....

And my favorite... Dont let the smoke out out of the amplifier, otherwise you have to send it back to the factory to put the smoke back in...

I have always wanted to do this....
:lol: :) :cry: :o :shock: :? 8-) :lol: :x :P :oops: :cry: :evil: :twisted: :roll: ;) :arrow: :idea: :?: :!: :!: :!: :!:


I hope this helps......
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There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:29 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:15 am Post subject: Never fear... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"

Of course, a family favorite from Lost In Space... a show nobody admitted watching yet everybody watched...

"Never fear... SMITH is here..."
8-)

And of course that usually meant pending disaster... Laughing

Cheers, Dave SMITH.
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There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:34 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 10:49 am Post subject: More of the same, hold on to your lunch... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"

Giday all...

Uh oh... urmph.... urrrmmpph... ... ... uurrrrrmmmmmpphh... ... ...
Rrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllphphphphphphphphphph!

er... sorry I brought that up! *wipes chin*


:lol:


Check this out. I did a silly thing and followed a link from the Science Daily story from my first post, to yet more mind-numbing, gut churning, blood-pressure raising garbage. Sorry, but I really am sick of being polite about this rot we have sold to us under the banner of science.
colourellipsesmaller.jpg
"What's that?" You may well ask. Well, let me tell you...

"The ellipse shows the region of sky where the dark galaxy was found - image taken by Cardiff Astronomers using the Isaac Newton Telescope on La Palma."

"But I can't see anything inside the ellipse, which differs from anything outside the ellipse... what's the image of, exactly?"

I understand your question. I answer with "you didn't hear me correctly... I said, IT'S A DARK GALAXY! Look, Science Daily told us so."

February 25, 2005

Seeing The Invisible. First Dark Galaxy Discovered?

Science Daily — A British-led team of astronomers using The University of Manchester's Lovell Telescope in Cheshire have discovered an object that appears to be an invisible galaxy made almost entirely of dark matter -- the first ever detected.
colourellipsesmaller.jpg
The ellipse shows the region of sky where the dark galaxy was found - image taken by Cardiff Astronomers using the Isaac Newton Telescope on La Palma

A dark galaxy is an area in the universe containing a large amount of mass that rotates like a galaxy, but contains no stars. Without any stars to give light, it could only be found using radio telescopes.

[ ... ]

Dr Robert Minchin from Cardiff University is one of the UK astronomers who discovered the mysterious galaxy, named VIRGOHI21, and explains: 'From the speed it is spinning, we realised that VIRGOHI21 was a thousand times more massive than could be accounted for by the observed hydrogen atoms alone. If it were an ordinary galaxy, then it should be quite bright and would be visible with a good amateur telescope. But, even using the large Isaac Newton Optical Telescope in La Palma, no trace of stars was seen ' it must thus contain matter that we cannot see ' so called dark matter.

:roll:

It really does beggar belief doesn't it? '...have discovered an object that appears to be an invisible galaxy made entirely of dark matter...'

Consider the wording here:

"have" not may have, or could have, but a definite have...

"discovered" another definitive, positive thingy... (just because I stuffed around at school doesn't mean I don't know what it means, even if I don't have a major in English...)...

"object" not a nothing, but a something, 'ob' implying we can see it...

"appears" if it appears, we must see it, it has appearence...

"invisible galaxy" what the?... after the four definitive, solid, almost tangible descriptors, we can't see it after all... yet it's a whole galaxy?

"made of dark matter" yet we know this nothing is made of dark matter - no question...


How is it that modern science has come to this? For those with a really strong stomach the paper by Dr. Robert Minchin mentioned above can be downloaded here.

And it's all because we fail to acknowledge electricity. Something known, proven, usable, tangible (careful how much of it you touch though), yet totally ignored by modern astrophysics. Shame, shame, shame!

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:37 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:27 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Solar"

Wait a sec... haven't we seen this?
dk.jpg
VirgoHI21
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:39 pm

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:28 pm Post subject: Revolting scientists... Reply with quote
OP "davesmith_au"
Michael Mozina wrote:
Time for a science revolt.

Reminded me of The Wizard of Id...

"Sire, the scientists are revolting!"

"Yes, they are..."

:lol:

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:40 pm

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:39 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Ion01"
Without any stars to give light, it could only be found using radio telescopes.

But wait.....in the first article it said.
Because they don't emit or reflect electromagnetic radiation the way atomic, or baryonic, matter does, these dark matter particles haven't been directly observed.

Wiki - "In astrophysics and cosmology, dark matter is hypothetical matter of unknown composition that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation to be observed directly, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter."

So they saw dark matter using a radio telescope but its dark matter because it doesn't emit or reflect electromagnetic radiation which means it can only be observed through its gravitational effects......yet they saw it with a radio telescope?

Truely unbelievable!
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:46 pm

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:46 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "mgmirkin"
davesmith_au wrote: Giday all...

Check this out. I did a silly thing and followed a link from the Science Daily story from my first post, to yet more mind-numbing, gut churning, blood-pressure raising garbage. Sorry, but I really am sick of being polite about this rot we have sold to us under the banner of science.

<snip>

"What's that?" You may well ask. Well, let me tell you...

"The ellipse shows the region of sky where the dark galaxy was found - image taken by Cardiff Astronomers using the Isaac Newton Telescope on La Palma."

"But I can't see anything inside the ellipse, which differs from anything outside the ellipse... what's the image of, exactly?"

I understand your question. I answer with "you didn't hear me correctly... I said, IT'S A DARK GALAXY! Look, Science Daily told us so."

Cheers, Dave Smith.

For more mind-numbing-ness, see the "extended cut," which is of course the cruelest cut of all:
http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/news/darkgalaxy/

The emperor truly has no clothes (perhaps we'll call her the Empress; otherwise known as the "Queen of the Sciences"). And she's dancing The Watusi in her birthday suit!

Didn't need that image... ;)
Ion01 wrote:
Without any stars to give light, it could only be found using radio telescopes.

But wait.....in the first article it said.
Because they don't emit or reflect electromagnetic radiation the way atomic, or baryonic, matter does, these dark matter particles haven't been directly observed.

Wiki - "In astrophysics and cosmology, dark matter is hypothetical matter of unknown composition that does not emit or reflect enough electromagnetic radiation to be observed directly, but whose presence can be inferred from gravitational effects on visible matter."

So they saw dark matter using a radio telescope but its dark matter because it doesn't emit or reflect electromagnetic radiation which means it can only be observed through its gravitational effects......yet they saw it with a radio telescope?

Truely unbelievable!

Damn, you beat me to it!

"Dit-to!"

I love the irony, and was about to point it out myself.

So, dark matter is supposedly dark because it doesn't emit or reflect EM radiation, and can't be directly observed. But they're claiming that this stuff can be observed directly. Thus they violate their own logic. If it CAN be observed directly it's NOT dark matter! It's simply a NORMAL hydrogen cloud that's radiating due to physical excitation. Which, again, dark matter doesn't do, by definition...

They seem to be confusing themselves with their own terms and definitions. Just because something doesn't radiate in the "visible" part of the spectrum does not make it "dark matter."

Dark matter, the idiotic stuff that it is, is essentially defined as matter that can be put anywhere (even photoshopped/shoehorned into other images if necessary) to save a gravitation-only model. It doesn't reflect or emit EM radiation, but has just enough mass to make the gravity-only model "magically work." 'Cause if the Dark Matter wasn't there, the gravitation-only model would simply fail to predict/explain the actual observations, rotational velocities, and why matter doesn't go flying off into space, etc...

Now, I may have "paraphrased" slightly. But I think that's a pretty apt description of the Empress' "dark matter" (invisible, non-interactive) clothes.

Kwicky the Koala says (to the Empress of the Sciences):
KwickyTheKoala.jpg

"Get a clue! You're naked!"


Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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Re: Recovered: Quick - Upriver - Where's that bucket?...

Unread post by bboyer » Thu Mar 20, 2008 9:51 pm

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2007 10:12 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "mgmirkin"

Speaking of nauseating moments, how about this one?

(How I found a comet)
http://www.astronomy.com/asy/default.aspx?c=a&id=5377
Comet-hunter Don Machholz tells how he found Comet 96P (Machholz) 21 years ago - using homemade binoculars - and how to spy the dirty snowball when it returns this April.

They seem intent on reinforcing the idiotic verbiage "dirty snowball," despite the fact that it was never used elsewhere in the article, and Stardust has all but refuted the "dirty snowball" model...

Kwicky the Koala chimes in (doing his best Charlton Heston impersonation):
KwickyTheKoala.jpg
"Damn dirty apes! Get it through your head, there's no such thing as a damn dirty snowball! Just a giant hunk of space rock under stress from the sun's radial electric field."

Well said, Kwicky... Well said! Smart little Koala, ain't he?

I have a feeling we'll be having Kwicky on the show as a guest star far more often from now on...

Cheers,
~Michael Gmirkin
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad

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