Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

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flyingcloud
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Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by flyingcloud » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:06 am

Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 174617.htm
Images from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope reveal 14 young, runaway stars plowing through regions of dense interstellar gas, creating brilliant arrowhead structures and trailing tails of glowing gas. These arrowheads, or bow shocks, form when the stars' powerful stellar winds, streams of matter flowing from the stars, slam into surrounding dense gas. The phenomenon is similar to that seen when a speeding boat pushes through water on a lake.

"We think we have found a new class of bright, high-velocity stellar interlopers," says astronomer Raghvendra Sahai of NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, Calif., and leader of the Hubble study. "Finding these stars is a complete surprise because we were not looking for them. When I first saw the images, I said 'Wow. This is like a bullet speeding through the interstellar medium.' Hubble's sharp 'eye' reveals the structure and shape of these bow shocks."

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junglelord
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by junglelord » Thu Jan 08, 2009 8:38 am

What mechanism of gravity would allow for that?
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earls
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by earls » Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:17 am

"The high-speed stars were likely kicked out of their homes, which were probably massive star clusters," Sahai says.

There are two possible ways this stellar expulsion could have happened. One way is if one star in a binary system exploded as a supernova and the partner got kicked out. Another scenario is a collision between two binary star systems or a binary system and a third star. One or more of these stars could have picked up energy from the interaction and escaped the cluster.

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StevenJay
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by StevenJay » Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:29 am

Sounds to me like an example of "stars scattering like buckshot" as Wal has mentioned.
It's all about perception.

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Ion01
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by Ion01 » Mon Jan 12, 2009 3:48 pm

I don't see how they can miss the obvious connection between comets and these stars.....of course if you think a comet's tail is from a dirty snowball....... :(

Lloyd
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Plasma Guns Shoot Stars & Quasars

Post by Lloyd » Wed Jan 14, 2009 12:42 pm

* That's exciting news about stars going ballistic. Wal had said some years ago that stars are formed in plasma guns that shoot them out at high speed. When he first mentioned that, he referred to a recent finding at that time of a star that was found to be moving at high speed within our galaxy. Wal may have developed his theory based on Halton Arp's previous finding about quasars.
* Arp found that quasars are formed within AGNs, or active galactic nuclei, which is the central ball-shaped part of a galaxy. He said the quasars start out massless, or nearly massless, and shoot out at very high speed, as much as 10% or so of the speed of light. They shoot out in pairs in opposite directions usually at the poles. Someone, I guess Halton or Wal, said they're also highly ionized initially. They soon begin to gain mass and lose velocity. I think they gain mass via Marklund Convection, which is I think what lightning is. Marklund Convection involves scavenging surrounding space for matter and moving the matter to the central axis of the convection current. This leaves the surrounding space largely devoid of matter with the central axis highly concentrated in matter. This is apparently how the great voids in space were produced.
* The quasars eventually become either galaxies or groups of smaller globs of stars. I forget what they're called, something like B Lac Objects. They lose all their outward velocity and then start moving back toward the mother galaxy, but I don't know how close they return. The Milky Way is said to have come from the Andromeda Galaxy and to be moving toward it now. Apparently the Milky Way must have a twin galaxy on the other side of Andromeda M31, or triplets or something.
* Wal later explained this phenomenon as a plasma gun effect. The AGN is the plasma gun and quasars are plasma bullets. He said quasars are highly ionized positively charged. Many of the electrons are stripped off of atoms in the plasma gun. The electrons linger behind at first, then shoot out in jets, I think, behind the quasars, eventually catching up and neutralizing them, at least by the time they become galaxies.
* Wal said stars form in a similar way, but I don't remember reading details about star-forming from him. I'm not sure what the plasma gun is for stars, but I think it's planetary nebulae. In this case planetary doesn't refer to planets, but to central stars, I believe. Brant, aka Upriver, has suggested that pulsars are the source of new stars and they are found in planetary nebulae. He thinks the sun is from the Vela pulsar, because we're moving away from it. I suppose the sun has a twin sun or triplets etc on the opposite side of the Vela pulsar. One electrical engineer or the like said some years ago that the sun probably formed in one filament of a Birkeland current, while the Saturn System formed in the other filament, but I don't know why the two filaments would have come together, bringing the Saturn System into the Solar System.
* I got the above info from one of Arp's books a little over a year ago and from Wal's website and maybe a few other EU sources.
* I think we can guess quite a bit of details about how stars and galaxies form by comparing the two processes. The Birkeland currents in which stars move are pretty obvious; they're the galactic spiral arms. The currents that the galaxies move in are harder to detect, but I think the various kinds of detectors being used now, IR, UV, Xray, etc, are beginning to make those currents detectable too.

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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by Total Science » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:37 pm

So much for Isaac Newton's so-called "Theory" of Gravity which says that the stars are fixed.

"...lest the systems of the fixed stars should, by their gravity, fall on each other, he [God] hath placed those systems at immense distances from one another." -- Isaac Newton, mathematician, 1687
"The ancients possessed a plasma cosmology and physics themselves, and from laboratory experiments, were well familiar with the patterns exhibited by Peratt's petroglyphs." -- Joseph P. Farrell, author, 2007

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StefanR
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by StefanR » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:12 pm

Image
Two spectacular tails of X-ray emission have been seen trailing behind a galaxy using the Chandra X-ray Observatory. A composite image of the galaxy cluster Abell 3627 shows X-rays from Chandra in blue, optical emission in yellow and emission from hydrogen light -- known to astronomers as "H-alpha" -- in red. The optical and H-alpha data were obtained with the Southern Astrophysical Research (SOAR) Telescope in Chile.
http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2010/eso137/
“The double tail is very cool – that is, interesting – and ridiculously hard to explain,” said Donahue, a professor in MSU’s Department of Physics and Astronomy. “It could be two different sources of gas or something to do with magnetic fields. We just don’t know.”

What is also unusual is the gas tail, which is more than 200,000 light years in length, extends well outside any galaxy. It is within objects such as this that new stars are formed, but usually within the confines of a galaxy.

“This system is really crazy because where we’re seeing the star formation is well away from any galaxy,” Donahue said. “Star formation happens primarily in the disks of galaxies. What we’re seeing here is very unexpected.”
http://news.msu.edu/story/7332/
The illusion from which we are seeking to extricate ourselves is not that constituted by the realm of space and time, but that which comes from failing to know that realm from the standpoint of a higher vision. -L.H.

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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by nick c » Fri Jan 22, 2010 9:56 pm

Images from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope reveal 14 young, runaway stars plowing through regions of dense interstellar gas, creating brilliant arrowhead structures and trailing tails of glowing gas.
A comet by any other name would still look the same... :shock:

mharratsc
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by mharratsc » Fri Jan 22, 2010 10:48 pm

Well, if you take what Wal was referring to a bit further, I do believe he was saying that plasma will form instabilities like beads on a string, and they will "scatter like buckshot" when the current is removed.

Seems to me that the current dropped on these stars, the Birkeland current's magnetic field collapsed, and off these guys shot.

By contrast I see galactic birthing as the forming of a new pair of instabilities in a still-energized circuit, unlike this which appears to me to be the evidence of the collapse of one.

I don't think I've ever really heard of this notion being discussed before on the board. Rather than a stars 'fire' immediately going out after de-energizing, perhaps they can actually hang in ther for a while... perhaps on a secondary circiut that forms at a lower voltage?
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

jjohnson
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by jjohnson » Sat Jan 23, 2010 12:04 am

"Dang! There go those pesky runaway stars again, Bob!"
"That's right, Will, and you'd think we'd have learned to look for them by now, but it just seems like a whole new surprise! And this time they're goin' ballistic!! Ballistic stars are gonna be on The Hot Tamale Train in the science mags this year for sure!"

What are astronomers looking for these days? And why is such a high percentage of their observations coming in the form of unexpected, ridiculously difficult to explain, unforeseen, not predicted by our standard model, and puzzling behavior formats? If they watched this space, their model might become a little better, or at least better at predicting and explaining what those punk runaways are really doing. Collimated jets crossing hundreds or thousands of parsec are nothing new in the EU zoo, in active or Seyfert galaxies, Herbig Haro objects and quasars.

Total Science, in Newton's time and way before, the stars moved so imperceptibly slowly relative to one another that they appeared to be in a never-changing relationship with each other. They were known as the fixed stars as far back as the Mesopotamian and Egyptian civilizations (especially Canis Minor). Those stars that were observed to have obvious motions relative to the field of fixed stars were called the wanderers, or planets, from the Greek word. Newton certainly got the "immense distances apart from one another" right.

Mike - I've thought about pulling the plug and what ensues, too. I am not sure how fast that might happen, since time scales up along with length scales as one goes to plasma currents over cosmological distances. We have no idea how long the intergalactic web of filamentary currents has existed nor what its rate of change is, nor how long it will last or anything. If the current failed, perhaps there is a lag or capacitive effect that acts more like a dimmer than a switch. On the other hand, there is Don Scott's example of a star's changing its color and temperature and brightness and wandering around unpredictably on the H-R diagram in the course of two years! (see The Electric Sky, FG Sagittae, p. 160).

If stars ever go out through insufficient electrical stress (w/m²) my thought it would "...not with a bang, but a whimper." What would be left would be a cooling, very large, gravity-bound gas giant. (someone's conjecturing here). In the dark. Could it collapse gravitationally? I do not believe it would, because if you plot the pull of gravity toward the center of a (homogeneous or isotropic) sphere, its pull decreases from the measure of the acceleration at the surface to zero at the center - a straight line relationship. No power, no logarithms, no supernova collapse and rebound through retarded shocks or any of that. If the EU is right and there is no fusion furnace at the center of the Sun, then all that high temperature and radiative pressure isn't actually there, and must not be needed to keep the hydrogen and helium + minor elements from collapsing inward. Maybe gravity yields a kind of surface tension; I don't know. It doesn't seem reasonable to me to extrapolate surface tension phenomena on a water globule floating in the shuttle up to a cooling sun ball. I'm pretty far out on the 3-meter board here.
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Journeyman
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by Journeyman » Sat Jan 23, 2010 5:11 am

Images from NASA's Hubble Space Telescope reveal 14 young, runaway stars plowing through regions of dense interstellar gas
I'm just wondering why nobody has picked up on the word 'young' & asked where the stars could have originated if they are so early in their lives? The potential incompatibility between the standard view of cosmology & the idea that young' stars can collapse, ignite, grow & evolve & get ejected so far from any obvious source seems quite large & rather obvious.

Is it desperation to hold onto the 'safe' paradigm that makes them so willing to ignore the obvious question?

Or am I being naive & there's some obvious way 'young' stars could have achieved so much in their short lives?

mharratsc
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Re: Hubble Finds Stars That Go 'Ballistic'

Post by mharratsc » Sat Jan 23, 2010 9:46 am

Personally, I think mainstream is so far down the road of 'blind faith' that most of them literally have no training in thinking for themselves. They are given positions on teams after graduation by the Old Guard, and told to watch the skies. If they see anything odd or interesting, they are told to broadcast it in their special 'What is it?' channel, and wait for one of the Old Guard 'thinkers' to tell them how to believe in it. :roll:

Say Jim- consider this:

A young, electrically hot star shoots off under the impetus of the power released from the collapsed magnetic field of a de-energized Birkeland current.

It would exhibit cometary flaring as it flies off through the (galactic or inter-galactic) plasma medium. It's total charge is going to start dropping as it goes, and the cometary effects will slowly fade as will it's position on the H-R diagram! It would eventually thus fade down to a brown dwarf.

At a much lower energy state, it might eventually cross paths with an energized Birkeland current feeding an active star- presumably, long range attraction would draw the runaway towards the energized star.

Perhaps as it neared the new star, the rest of it's charge might get pulled off when a secondary circuit formed between them, and our little dwarf adopted this new star as it's primary. Now it has ended it's journey as a gas giant in orbit around another star on a more stable intra-galactic circuit path.

Do you think this might be the story of how Saturn ended up a partner with old Sol not so long ago? :?:

Maybe these 'stellar capture events' aren't so much a fight, but might actually be more of a rescue mission and adoption? Plausible? o.O
Mike H.

"I have no fear to shout out my ignorance and let the Wise correct me, for every instance of such narrows the gulf between them and me." -- Michael A. Harrington

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