A stream of atomic hydrogen coming from the sun

[earls]

rcglinsk, it came together to neutralize. After neutralization, it should start expanding as one would expect, but it maintained it's spatial integrity over such a vast distance because it travel some of the distance as separated attracting charges.

One would expect the cloud to dissipate or spread out much faster and much farther if it was originally ejected as neutral matter, nor would it have a trail (tail) of ions.

A sunspot, a separation of positive and negative charges "explodes" ejecting those positive and negative charges into space that then recombine and neutralize at a distance.

[rcglinsk]

rcglinsk, it came together to neutralize. After neutralization, it should start expanding as one would expect, but it maintained it's spatial integrity over such a vast distance because it travel some of the distance as separated attracting charges.

One would expect the cloud to dissipate or spread out much faster and much farther if it was originally ejected as neutral matter, nor would it have a trail (tail) of ions.

A sunspot, a separation of positive and negative charges "explodes" ejecting those positive and negative charges into space that then recombine and neutralize at a distance.

So then you'd say that we would be likely to see such atomic hydrogen pulses from most sunspot explosions? Also, if the hydrogen stayed together because it traveled vast distances as separated ions, wouldn't there have to be some macroscopic order to the separation for the electric forces to result in a net inward force on all the particles?

[earls]

I believe that's where Birkeland currents come in. Also, yes, future sunspots shoudl produce the same results... We can only wait for the next burst to reach THEMIS. I'm sure they'll be looking for it.

[Total Science]

Looks like Fred Hoyle was right again.

"... the steady-state creation of matter in the Earth's core ... [is] fueling the expansion [of the Earth]. The idea that hydrogen atoms might naturally be coming into existence was first made popular by astronomer Fred Hoyle who suggested the process might be occuring in the space between stars." -- Richard Milton, writer, 1992

[StevenO]

Looks like Fred Hoyle was right again.

"... the steady-state creation of matter in the Earth's core ... [is] fueling the expansion [of the Earth]. The idea that hydrogen atoms might naturally be coming into existence was first made popular by astronomer Fred Hoyle who suggested the process might be occuring in the space between stars." -- Richard Milton, writer, 1992

I agree that Fred Hoyle is right. There are processes which redistribute matter throughout random locations in the universe, which then become fuel again for new generations of stars. The gravitional energy of their position is finally turned into the heat of a star.

[Lloyd]

The gravitional energy of their position is finally turned into the heat of a star.

* Extremely Unlikely. What's extremely likely is that ELECTRICAL forces pull matter into electrical filaments, which forces are the source of the heating of matter.
* Haven't you folks ever read Juergens' Electric Sun Model?
http://www.kronia.com/thoth/ThoIII06.txt
* Also see Thornhill at http://kronia.com/thoth/ThotIV05.txt
* Also http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... action.htm
and http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2004/arch ... -stars.htm
and http://thunderbolts.info/tpod/2005/arch ... llstar.htm

[StevenO]

The gravitional energy of their position is finally turned into the heat of a star.

* Extremely Unlikely.

What's your justification for that statement? Gravitational energy does not exist?

What's extremely likely is that ELECTRICAL forces pull matter into electrical filaments, which forces are the source of the heating of matter.

Why is that more likely than atoms gravitating towards eachother? What would make a random collection of hydrogen and other atoms/ions and possibly electrons assemble into filaments and a star? What would be the source of the electric potential?

* Haven't you folks ever read Juergens' Electric Sun Model?

Briefly, but could'nt find out what would keep the electrons and ions at the star separate.

[mharratsc]

Why would they need to be separate at the star?

Mike H.

[StevenO]

Why would they need to be separate at the star?

Mike H.

To create this current flow that powers the star. I just have no idea how that could possibly work.

[Lloyd]

Do a google search of "site:holoscience.com" "charge separation" and "site:thunderbolts.info" "charge separation" etc. Thornhill and others have discussed how charge separation may occur.

[FS3]

Onby an abstract about the solar current (formerly called solar "wind") by Tam and Chang from 1999:

Kinetic evolution and acceleration of the solar wind

Besides a lot of useful data one should mention the weak points of this study as well:

1) They alway focus on Coloumb interaction while leaving behind known properties of plasma.

2) Again, Monte Carlo -statistics (ion resonant heating) and MHD are used to describe plasma-effects where Alfvén, Chertkov and some others have warned us - not to deal with them in cases of fully ionized, thin plasma.

3) Again, it is stated that "the flow of ions should be assumed to be current-free and quasi-neutral.

To me that argumentation of "quasi-neutrality" almost looks like if you would try to tell someone the idea that even if he counts 1000 cars moving on a highway in one direction and 1000s into the other - he should see "no cars" at all. Again we recognize that quantitfication-approach rules over the quality of the "model" always, as long as you can produce some figures, predicting a model - that will be contradicted after some new finding appears.

This attitude might be the sole reason why we do experience so many "surprises" in Astrophysics. Calculate something into a "model" and be sure that you can recalculate a new one after some time when the findings have proved too far off from the old model. And even worse: Produce a new add-on for the old calculation, based on the bogus assumption from the first math, and be sure that it is altered in the way that it somehow fits the new data.

FS3

[Tina]

I think this link is suitable to post here:

Wild Fireworks Spotted in Space
http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/20090703/ ... tedinspace

Of particular interest is the detection of surviving Hydrogen molecules and

the "comet-like knots" They cannot concede filamentary structures - so they are knots!

Anyway some fabulous images at above link plus below:

Planetary Nebula
http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/p ... 50110.html

[KickLaBuka]

3) Again, it is stated that "the flow of ions should be assumed to be current-free and quasi-neutral.

Assumptions can be a terrible thing. Let's rather assume a given--that the ionization energy of a Hydrogen (neutral) atom is -13.6eV. So the protons fly out, accelerate away from each other, and slam into the negatively charged upper corona. Even then, the Hydrogen will not be neutral until the energy is below 13.6eV.