The Electric Sun

Plasma and electricity in space. Failure of gravity-only cosmology. Exposing the myths of dark matter, dark energy, black holes, neutron stars, and other mathematical constructs. The electric model of stars. Predictions and confirmations of the electric comet.

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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:14 am

Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 1:25 pm Post subject: queries Reply with quote
OP "Mo"

The Sun is powered by Birkland currents that have been measured
up to the orbit of Mars ? What happens further out, wouldn't the
Solar System double layer be affected by the Birkland current
travelling through it, such that it would be measured ?

Presumably this Birkland current enters one pole of the Sun and
travels around or through the Sun and exits from the other pole.
On the way around the Sun this current also produces the Solar
wind, but electrons also drift into the Sun. Is this Birkland current
made of electrons or ions, and do ions travel in both directions ?

Do Birkland currents enter the Earth's poles ? Is the current from
the drift of electrons towards the Sun of sufficient power to heat
the Earth appreciably ?

Explaining global warming to someone isn't easy !

Mo
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:14 am

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:39 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

In the EU model the sun is powered by a radial "electric field". That really means there is a small electron drift inward opposite the direction of the solar wind.

<tangent>
My question would be "what pumps the electrons from the heliosphere to the sun, and back again?"
</tangent>

I have not seen any thing that resembles a Birkeland current attached to the poles of the sun. There is a phenomenon called solar polar plumes which extend some 40AU from the poles of the sun. However there is debate(no observations) as to their extension to the heliosphere.

Observation of Polar Plumes at High Solar Altitudes
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~deforest/P ... eep-lasco/
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:17 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:48 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Krackonis"

mgmirkin wrote:
Krackonis wrote:If you do have an opportunity to laugh a bit. Do a you tube search on Velikovsky and Carl Sagan. Carl Sagan makes some much needed words on listening to all the evidence, but in the end dismisses Velikovsky. I think it's just nice to see how far we have come to turning the gavity based tides. :roll:



If I recall correctly, there's also a book available from Mikamar:

(Carl Sagan and Immanuel Velikovsky. By Charles Ginenthal)
http://www.mikamar.biz/book-info/cs-iv-a.htm

In case anyone's interested in more on the subject. I've never really gotten into the whole "Velikovsky Affair" debate, and don't really want to dredge up the past. But, for those interested in the history of it, I guess that's aimed to be a pretty definitive reference? Don't know as I haven't read it. Still, probably interesting if nothing else. Though I don't think directly related to the Electric Sun hypothesis. So, I'll leave it at that.

Shall we get back to it? (The Electric Sun, that is...)

~Michael



I recommend watching the "Bonds of the Past" video on Velikovski. It's balanced, fair, and besides the nutcases who are pretending oil was being eaten and water falls from Saturn, (!) the story of how we got to here is not complete without him.

His area is the link between Birkland/Alven and the literary history of our world. He takes the Old Testament and tries to explain it literally... Basically the first look Myth as factual records of events.
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:18 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:53 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Krackonis"

upriver wrote:In the EU model the sun is powered by a radial "electric field". That really means there is a small electron drift inward opposite the direction of the solar wind.

<tangent>
My question would be "what pumps the electrons from the heliosphere to the sun, and back again?"
</tangent>

I have not seen any thing that resembles a Birkeland current attached to the poles of the sun. There is a phenomenon called solar polar plumes which extend some 40AU from the poles of the sun. However there is debate(no observations) as to their extension to the heliosphere.

Observation of Polar Plumes at High Solar Altitudes
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~deforest/P ... eep-lasco/



The Sun's helosphere is like shaped like out magnetosphere, but it's getting it's power directly from the Galactic Arm. The Magnetic Coupling/Double Layer around the Solar System alone would likely be enough to keep the current flowing.

The 40 AU jets out of the top and bottom of the sun makes sense, perhaps a "Torodial Dip" of Interstellar Plasma reach down the magnetic pole...

Again just getting some bearings ;P
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:20 am

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:54 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Mo"

upriver wrote:In the EU model the sun is powered by a radial "electric field". That really means there is a small electron drift inward opposite the direction of the solar wind.

<tangent>
My question would be "what pumps the electrons from the heliosphere to the sun, and back again?"
</tangent>

I have not seen any thing that resembles a Birkeland current attached to the poles of the sun. There is a phenomenon called solar polar plumes which extend some 40AU from the poles of the sun. However there is debate(no observations) as to their extension to the heliosphere.

Observation of Polar Plumes at High Solar Altitudes
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~deforest/P ... eep-lasco/


Hopefully we can get other opinions on this.
My understanding is that the Sun is positively charged and so there
is a drift of electrons to the Sun, but then there is also that the
galaxy is powered by Birkland currents, and spin-offs of these
currents power the spiral arms and a spin-off of this current
comes to Earth.

I was reading Wal's view on this and I think that he has Birkland
currents powering the Earth. Shoot me if I'm wrong, please.

Mo
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:22 am

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:09 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

[Dave Thompson said I could post this for him. - LK]
> Does longitudinal (Tesla waves) electricity exist?
> Is this a possibility in the EU model??


Dave replied:
Absolutely. I have proven this in an experiment I performed in Feb 2002.


http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/FlatS ... dCombo.htm
The standing waves on the top load at the above page are caused from longitudinal electric waves. I'm presently working on an experiment to perfect the production of longitudinal electric waves. It is quite tricky because the longitudinal waves are not inductively coupled to the primary/secondary driver system.

Dave

David W. Thomson
Quantum AetherDynamics Institute


[Dave didn't know initially that the questions were leading to a question about Tesla waves powering the sun from the galactic core. I thought you folks might like to see the experiment link. He said he's planning to do it again and put it on video. - LK]
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:23 am

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 6:23 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "thunderbolt2012"

With so many topics here, it is difficult to know if I am in the right place, but I will figure it out eventually.
I have been thinking lately when considering the whole electric sun/ electric star notion as to the relevance of the unique electrical characteristics of a spherical capacitor in relation to those of any other geometry.
If for instance I calculate the capacitance between a pair of straight wires or a pair of coaxial concentric cylinders and I then allow the plate seperation to to go to infinity, I end up with 0 capacitance in the limit.
However, if I derive the capacitance expression for concentric spherical shells and allow the separation radius to approach infinity, I get a non-zero residual capacitance dependent only on the radius of the inner sphere.
This would seem to imply that the electrical influence of an electrically charged spherical object extends without bound, whether it be a planet, a star or whatever.
Does anybody have any thoughts on the physical meaning of a sphere as a single plate capacitor ? How would I represent something like this on a circuit schematic ?
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:25 am

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:18 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

thunderbolt2012 wrote:With so many topics here, it is difficult to know if I am in the right place, but I will figure it out eventually.
I have been thinking lately when considering the whole electric sun/ electric star notion as to the relevance of the unique electrical characteristics of a spherical capacitor in relation to those of any other geometry.
If for instance I calculate the capacitance between a pair of straight wires or a pair of coaxial concentric cylinders and I then allow the plate seperation to to go to infinity, I end up with 0 capacitance in the limit.
However, if I derive the capacitance expression for concentric spherical shells and allow the separation radius to approach infinity, I get a non-zero residual capacitance dependent only on the
radius of the inner sphere.



Since your concentric spherical shell is directly related to the model we're discussing, you probably want to skim through the following discussions:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... ae542ddd1f
http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... 869bb57d46

You might also visit this website since it's based on that specific model, namely concentric circles of double layered plasmas surrounding an iron "shell" at .995R.

http://thesurfaceofthesun.com/index.html?

This would seem to imply that the electrical influence of an electrically charged spherical object extends without bound, whether it be a planet, a star or whatever.



I would presume that this range of influence is much like "gravity' in that respect, only the distance of significant influence would be far greater.

Does anybody have any thoughts on the physical meaning of a sphere as a single plate capacitor ? How would I represent something like this on a circuit schematic ?



You might checkout the work of Hannes Alfven. If such a schematic exists, he's probably the guy that created it. You might also checkout the work of Dr. Kristian Birkeland since he did lab experiments related to this topic.
http://www.catastrophism.com/texts/birkeland/
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:27 am

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

Mo wrote:
upriver wrote:In the EU model the sun is powered by a radial "electric field". That really means there is a small electron drift inward opposite the direction of the solar wind.

<tangent>
My question would be "what pumps the electrons from the heliosphere to the sun, and back again?"
</tangent>

I have not seen any thing that resembles a Birkeland current attached to the poles of the sun. There is a phenomenon called solar polar plumes which extend some 40AU from the poles of the sun. However there is debate(no observations) as to their extension to the heliosphere.

Observation of Polar Plumes at High Solar Altitudes
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~deforest/P ... eep-lasco/


Hopefully we can get other opinions on this.
My understanding is that the Sun is positively charged and so there
is a drift of electrons to the Sun, but then there is also that the
galaxy is powered by Birkland currents, and spin-offs of these
currents power the spiral arms and a spin-off of this current
comes to Earth.

I was reading Wal's view on this and I think that he has Birkland
currents powering the Earth. Shoot me if I'm wrong, please.

Mo



There are at least two things I can think of that fully support the idea that the surface of the photosphere is more positively charged than the universe in general, namely the coronal loop activity that works just like Birkeland's experiments, and the fact that the positively charged particles coming from the sun are actually being accelerated away from the surface as they leave the surface. That would be reasonably easy to explain if the heliosphere is more negatively charged than the photosphere, but it's pretty tough to explain any other way.

http://thesurfaceofthesun.com/videolinks.htm?

If you scroll down that page, and look at the images on the right, you'll find some images of solar plumes at the south pole. These plumes look very much like the images Birkeland created with his terella experiments.

http://www.catastrophism.com/texts/birkeland/
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:29 am

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:00 pm Post subject: Macroscopic mass defects Reply with quote
OP "thunderbolt2012"

In "EMRP", when talking about core mass "shadowing " of external gravitational forces, we must consider the Principle of Equivalence.
Is the INERTIAL mass shadowed in the same way as the GRAVITATIONAL mass? If not, then the Equivalence is no longer valid and there are two different kinds of mass. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to verify equivalence for the Sun unless we analyze the wobble in it's motion caused by the orbits of all the planets and verify that it implies a mass equivalent to the apparent gravitational mass.
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:30 am

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

thunderbolt2012 wrote:With so many topics here, it is difficult to know if I am in the right place, but I will figure it out eventually.
I have been thinking lately when considering the whole electric sun/ electric star notion as to the relevance of the unique electrical characteristics of a spherical capacitor in relation to those of any other geometry.
If for instance I calculate the capacitance between a pair of straight wires or a pair of coaxial concentric cylinders and I then allow the plate seperation to to go to infinity, I end up with 0 capacitance in the limit.
However, if I derive the capacitance expression for concentric spherical shells and allow the separation radius to approach infinity, I get a non-zero residual capacitance dependent only on the radius of the inner sphere.
This would seem to imply that the electrical influence of an electrically charged spherical object extends without bound, whether it be a planet, a star or whatever.
Does anybody have any thoughts on the physical meaning of a sphere as a single plate capacitor ? How would I represent something like this on a circuit schematic ?



One-Terminal Capacitor

The Capacity Changer, in all its simplicity, is a pulse-converter of the Coulomb charge upon one plate of a two-terminal capacitor, which becomes a capacitor having only one terminal when the plasma stream inside of a glass tube (commercially available ultraviolet lights) extinguishes. The plasma serves as the disappearing capacitor terminal of the Capacity Changer device.
http://www.rexresearch.com/hiddink/hiddink.htm
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:32 am

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:13 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "upriver"

Michael Mozina wrote:
Mo wrote:
upriver wrote:In the EU model the sun is powered by a radial "electric field". That really means there is a small electron drift inward opposite the direction of the solar wind.

<tangent>
My question would be "what pumps the electrons from the heliosphere to the sun, and back again?"
</tangent>

I have not seen any thing that resembles a Birkeland current attached to the poles of the sun. There is a phenomenon called solar polar plumes which extend some 40AU from the poles of the sun. However there is debate(no observations) as to their extension to the heliosphere.

Observation of Polar Plumes at High Solar Altitudes
http://www.boulder.swri.edu/~deforest/P ... eep-lasco/


Hopefully we can get other opinions on this.
My understanding is that the Sun is positively charged and so there
is a drift of electrons to the Sun, but then there is also that the
galaxy is powered by Birkland currents, and spin-offs of these
currents power the spiral arms and a spin-off of this current
comes to Earth.

I was reading Wal's view on this and I think that he has Birkland
currents powering the Earth. Shoot me if I'm wrong, please.

Mo



There are at least two things I can think of that fully support the idea that the surface of the photosphere is more positively charged than the universe in general, namely the coronal loop activity that works just like Birkeland's experiments, and the fact that the positively charged particles coming from the sun are actually being accelerated away from the surface as they leave the surface. That would be reasonably easy to explain if the heliosphere is more negatively charged than the photosphere, but it's pretty tough to explain any other way.

http://thesurfaceofthesun.com/videolinks.htm?

If you scroll down that page, and look at the images on the right, you'll find some images of solar plumes at the south pole. These plumes look very much like the images Birkeland created with his terella experiments.

http://www.catastrophism.com/texts/birkeland/



Abnormal Glow Discharges
In the normal glow increasing current (over a range of 2 – 3 magnitudes) in a discharge tube leads to a very slow change in voltage. As mentioned above, the current density to the cathode remains constant, and the current increases by covering a greater cathode region. Once the whole
surface of the cathode is covered by the discharge, the only way the total current can increase further is to drive more current through the cathode by applying more voltage, and moving away from the Paschen minimum. The cathode fall potential increases rapidly, and the dark space shrinks. Except for being more intensely luminous, the abnormal glow discharge appears very similar to the normal discharge. Sometimes the structures near the cathode blend into one another providing more or less uniform glow. As the current and voltage increase, the cathode current density also increases, ultimately heating the cathode and causing incandescence and thermionic emission. Once the cathode is hot enough to emit electrons thermionically, the discharge will change to an arc regime.
http://science-education.pppl.gov/Summe ... charge.pdf
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:33 am

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:14 pm Post subject: EU and Velikovsky Reply with quote
OP "nick c"

It seems that many posters here don't fully appreciate the contribution of Velikovsky to EU, preferring to think of him as a peripheral contributor or a minor footnote. Keep in mind that V wrote a monograph in the early 1940's called "Cosmos Without Gravitation," all that are interested in the EU should take the time to read this short paper, keeping in mind the time in which it was written, it reveals the intuitive genius that was Dr. V. While "Worlds In Collision" (1949) was criticized, for resorting to unknown forces that could do just what the author needed them to do, (my paraphrasing) it is now clear, taking all his work in context, that the "unknown force" is electricity.
One of the pioneers of the Electric Sun theory was Ralph Jurgens, and how many here know that Jurgens was one of Dr. V's earliest supporters? co authoring the book "The Velikovsky Affair" (with de Grazia and Stecchini.) So it can be concluded that V was well aware of, and it can be implied that he subscribed to the theory of an external power source for the Sun (Stars) as the whole EU theory is certainly much more compatible with the thesis in "Worlds in Collision" than the conventionally accepted gravitational model.
So don't sell V short, and don't categorically dismiss the possiblilty that human survivors were kept alive with manna from heaven, or that there was deluge of water (in some form or another) associated with the demise of Kronos (Saturn.)
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:35 am

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 3:37 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Michael Mozina"

upriver wrote:Abnormal Glow Discharges
In the normal glow increasing current (over a range of 2 – 3 magnitudes) in a discharge tube leads to a very slow change in voltage. As mentioned above, the current density to the cathode remains constant, and the current increases by covering a greater cathode region. Once the whole
surface of the cathode is covered by the discharge, the only way the total current can increase further is to drive more current through the cathode by applying more voltage, and moving away from the Paschen minimum. The cathode fall potential increases rapidly, and the dark space shrinks. Except for being more intensely luminous, the abnormal glow discharge appears very similar to the normal discharge. Sometimes the structures near the cathode blend into one another providing more or less uniform glow. As the current and voltage increase, the cathode current density also increases, ultimately heating the cathode and causing incandescence and thermionic emission. Once the cathode is hot enough to emit electrons thermionically, the discharge will change to an arc regime.
http://science-education.pppl.gov/Summe ... charge.pdf



It seems to me that the photosphere is in "glow" mode at all times due to the current flow through the sun. The coronal loops however are in arc mode which is why we see x-rays and gamma rays from these structures. Alfven talked about plasmas forming concentric "tubes" of flowing currents, based on the ionization potential of each element. Streams of flowing plasmas form Inside these concentric tornado-shaped funnels, that arc from one surface point to another based on the local (relative) charge in each area.

FYI, I always appreciate your links and your feedback. It seems to me that each of us understands a small part of puzzle, and this exchange of ideas is helping to clarify the issues and reveal the processes. This is the way science is supposed to function. :)
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Recovered: The Electric Sun

Unread postby bboyer » Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:36 am

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:29 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Plasmatic MnemoHistory"

So don't sell V short, and don't categorically dismiss the possiblilty that human survivors were kept alive with manna from heaven, or that there was deluge of water (in some form or another) associated with the demise of Kronos (Saturn.)



Im not sure why you felt this thread was somehow selling V short ? Or that most dont appreaciate his contribution?
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