"Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

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"Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by MGmirkin » Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:42 pm

(Scientists Detect Cosmic 'Dark Flow' Across Billions of Light Years)
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/new ... _flow.html
http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Scien ... s_999.html

(Scientists Detect "Dark Flow:" Matter From Beyond the Visible Universe)
http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/23 ... -universe/

(Papers)
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/pdf ... ct2008.pdf
http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/pdf ... npress.pdf
"The clusters show a small but measurable velocity that is independent of the universe's expansion and does not change as distances increase," says lead researcher Alexander Kashlinsky at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "We never expected to find anything like this."

Kashlinsky calls this collective motion a "dark flow" in the vein of more familiar cosmological mysteries: dark energy and dark matter. "The distribution of matter in the observed universe cannot account for this motion," he says.

[...]

Using the cluster catalog and WMAP's three-year view of the microwave background, the astronomers detected bulk cluster motions of nearly 2 million miles per hour. The clusters are heading toward a 20-degree patch of sky between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela.

What's more, this motion is constant out to at least a billion light-years. "Because the dark flow already extends so far, it likely extends across the visible universe," Kashlinsky says.

The finding flies in the face of predictions from standard cosmological models, which describe such motions as decreasing at ever greater distances.

Cosmologists view the microwave background - a flash of light emitted 380,000 years after the big bang - as the universe's ultimate reference frame. Relative to it, all large-scale motion should show no preferred direction.
Another kick in the teeth for the big bang model?

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substance
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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by substance » Wed Sep 24, 2008 4:43 am

I saw that in some astronomy blog, but didn`t read any further, because I thought it was just another theory in the tone of dark matter and dark energy.
So basically a really large clump of matter is moving at a steady pace? This discovery does come a little confrontational to the big bang theory, but it has not much to offer to plasma cosmology too, I think. :|
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JohnW
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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by JohnW » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:13 am

This is really interesting. From the space.com article:
[A] team of researchers led by Alexander Kashlinsky ... found it when they studied a huge catalogue of 700 clusters, reaching out up to 6 billion light-years, or half the universe away. They compared this catalogue to the map of the CMB taken by NASA's Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe (WMAP) satellite.

They discovered that the clusters were moving nearly 2 million mph (3.2 million kph) toward a region in the sky between the constellations of Centaurus and Vela. This motion is different from the outward expansion of the universe (which is accelerated by the force called dark energy).
This seems to be saying they have come up with an independent way to measure the motion of a cluster without relying on redshift, in effect using the CMB as an absolute frame of reference. Is this new? Doesn't it present enormous implications?

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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Wed Sep 24, 2008 11:33 am

... says lead researcher Alexander Kashlinsky at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "We never expected to find anything like this."
How many times have we read this? And, worse still, how many times have we yet to read it? :roll:
Maybe some of you younger guys will live to read of scientists finding something they did expect. :shock:
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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by MGmirkin » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:33 pm

Grey Cloud wrote:
... says lead researcher Alexander Kashlinsky at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center in Greenbelt, Md. "We never expected to find anything like this."
How many times have we read this? And, worse still, how many times have we yet to read it? :roll:
Maybe some of you younger guys will live to read of scientists finding something they did expect. :shock:
Hmm, well, they found filamentary currents flowing between the sun and Earth as expected by Kristian Birkeland a hundred years ago (based upon his experiments with electricity in rarefied gases [plasma]). Granted, he has nothing to do with the Big Bnag! Probably because he was an experimental empiricist... Rather than one to force-fit observations to preconceived mathematical notions.

(The Norwegian Aurora Polaris Expedition 1902-1903 - Chapter VI. On Possible Electric Phenomena in Solar Systems and Nebulae)
http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.ph ... nd_Nebulae

(NASA Spacecraft Make New Discoveries About Northern Lights)
http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/themi ... ights.html
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Many of Alfvén's predictions have been verified as well (galactic magnetic field, Alfvén waves, double layers, etc. etc.).

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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by MGmirkin » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:45 pm

JohnW wrote:This seems to be saying they have come up with an independent way to measure the motion of a cluster without relying on redshift, in effect using the CMB as an absolute frame of reference. Is this new? Doesn't it present enormous implications?
On the one hand, yes, on the other hand no. The answer probably lies somewhere in the middle.

They claim to have figured out a way to determine direction of motion, yes. However, comparing it to the "CMB" as part of the process might be problematic. Some have suggested that the CMB is "local microwave fog" generated by local currents, as opposed universal microwave fog. Also, if any of the distance measurements were based on redshift assumptions, then the "distance to target" may be off as well? Seeing as how "intrinsic vs. cosmological redshift" is still a hot-button issue.

(Twinkle, twinkle electric star)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=x49g6gsf

(Nobel Prize for Big Bang is a Fizzer)
http://www.holoscience.com/news.php?article=d4fsrk24

(Holes in Space)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2007/ ... nspace.htm

(Dark Matter -- Dark Currents)
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(Expanding Uncertainty about the Hubble Constant)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2006/ ... tainty.htm

(Is the Universe Electric?)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... ectric.htm

(Big Bang Cosmology: Going Down a Black Hole?)
http://www.thunderbolts.info/thunderblo ... mology.htm

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"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by edcrater » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:47 am

Hot on the heels of the discovery of 'Dark Flow', astronomers have discovered 'Dark Time':
Dr Tosspotsky explains: "We were trying to study the flow of time just outside the universe - you know, whether it was expanding or not, whether it had mass or not, routine simple things that we astronomers do every day - and we were not getting any readings. And then we knew, of course, that that was evidence for Dark Time. There is no doubt. And anyway, our computer simulations confirm it. There are enormous implications, and whole new areas of research will open up, I'm happy to say".

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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by robinson » Thu Sep 25, 2008 7:11 pm

edcrater wrote:Hot on the heels of the discovery of 'Dark Flow', astronomers have discovered 'Dark Time':
Dr Tosspotsky explains: "We were trying to study the flow of time just outside the universe - you know, whether it was expanding or not, whether it had mass or not, routine simple things that we astronomers do every day - and we were not getting any readings. And then we knew, of course, that that was evidence for Dark Time. There is no doubt. And anyway, our computer simulations confirm it. There are enormous implications, and whole new areas of research will open up, I'm happy to say".
That made me laugh. In return, let me share some more insights into these dark matters. I beg your forgiveness if this level of levity isn't appropriate for the forum.

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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by MGmirkin » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:48 pm

Alternately:

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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by Solar » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:47 am

Hot on the heels of the discovery of 'Dark Flow', astronomers have discovered 'Dark Time':
Dr Tosspotsky explains: "We were trying to study the flow of time just outside the universe - you know, whether it was expanding or not, whether it had mass or not, routine simple things that we astronomers do every day - and we were not getting any readings. And then we knew, of course, that that was evidence for Dark Time. There is no doubt. And anyway, our computer simulations confirm it. There are enormous implications, and whole new areas of research will open up, I'm happy to say".
This is pure 'trickery' in language wherein finding nothing is regarded as significant. I remember Dave Smith (of the fabulous Smiths) wrote a Thunderblog on this type of loose lingo. Now they've found "dark time" :shock: because they weren't "getting any readings" and that's significant enough to usher in a new era of science :?: :roll:

Hahahaha... well he certainly got me with it.
...astronomers detected hundreds of galaxy clusters that appear to be carried along by a mysterious cosmic flow. The bulk cluster motions are traveling at nearly 2 million miles per hour.

...They found this motion is constant out to at least a billion light-years. "Because the dark flow already extends so far, it likely extends across the visible universe," Kashlinsky says.
It would appear that the language and understanding of Plasma Physics would have better implications as to what this "dark flow" may be. A few concepts from the book Plasma Astrophysics by Toshiki Tajima & Kazunari Shibata.

"Self-organized Critical Transport" with the "Bulk Flow" of plasma

"Plasmas are characterized by the long-ranged electromagnetic force i.e. all charged particles are affected by all the other particles no matter how far they may be."

This appears to speak to the existence of an electromagnetic continuum. This appears to be further confirmed by David Thompson's test with Scalar Waves:
Our scalar detector measures the rate of change of the magnetic flux density at a specific location. Magnetic flux density is able to change, just as ions and physical particle densities are able to change. Imagine a volume filled with Aether units (having quantum magnetic flux). These Aether units are constantly expanding and shrinking. By generating magnetic pulses, a scalar wave of shrinking and expanding Aether units is propagated.
To me that sounds like an electromagnetic propagation.

Now from the book "Plasma Astrophysics":

"In toroidal plasmas the toroidicity (the geometrical effect) induces to couple modes with each other at adjacent resonant surfaces. This leads to a chain of modes successively tied together, so much so to form a (even) macroscopic radial mode. If this large mode structure manifests itself, the spatial scale for transport across the magnetic field is characterized not by the Larmor radius, but by the larger patch or the macroscopic scale such as the temperature (or density) scale length. This leads to a relaxation of the plasma profile over this macroscopic length. If the plasma is driven by external or internal sources of heat ect., depending upon the strength of sources and the size of scale length, different equilibrium temperature (or density) profiles and temporary features (such as relaxation, oscillations) will arise."

In other words, this "dark flow" may well be one seriously large self-organized flow of plasma with co-moving "modes" of plasma systems within it (the observed galaxy clusters). This is also referred to in Plasma Physics as a "bulk flow" of plasma. It is demonstrative of the electromagnetically hierarchical nature of plasma that "modes" or systems exist within each other ("modes successively tied together") ad-infinitum. Think of it as co-moving multiple systems of bubbles within a larger bubble flowing together in one direction. They're just not spherical but can take on any 'shape' and are characterized by which ever factor dominates the electromagnetically sheathed system.
"We need a more accurate accounting of how the million-degree gas in these galaxy clusters is distributed," says Atrio-Barandela.
Well, of course you do! A million degree plasma should be causing a cosmological correction in and of itself along with the need to get rid of your "gas" problem.
Last edited by Solar on Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: "Dark Flows" Across the Universe?

Unread post by junglelord » Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:54 am

edcrater wrote:Hot on the heels of the discovery of 'Dark Flow', astronomers have discovered 'Dark Time':
Dr Tosspotsky explains: "We were trying to study the flow of time just outside the universe - you know, whether it was expanding or not, whether it had mass or not, routine simple things that we astronomers do every day - and we were not getting any readings. And then we knew, of course, that that was evidence for Dark Time. There is no doubt. And anyway, our computer simulations confirm it. There are enormous implications, and whole new areas of research will open up, I'm happy to say".
I have been talking to guys on the Pearl drummer forum about cosmology myths. I get flamed all the time. So I posted this. They thought it was real....they did not know it was a joke.
:?

Yet I get flammed for trying to help them see the light.
:roll:

I was told go to a physics site with that kind of chitchat, (not by moderators, but by irrate Pearl drummers)
I know that the people here that have gone to "respectable" physics sites have been banned for speaking of Electricity in space. In fact it seems it is not a allowed topic almost everywhere.
:evil:

Yet the man on the street is not any more aware then the so called professional. Both are closed minded and really quite insane. Yet the man on the street cannot tell a bad joke from bad astronomy. Thats sad. Astronomy has become so mythical that the average man cannot tell truth from fiction, or a joke from the truth. I blame modern astronomy for making people believe in Unicorns.


Space without Electricity is totally impossible. Yet they claim its the facts.
:cry:
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