Plasma Science...

Plasma formations in the ancient sky. The role of planets as charged bodies in these formations. Ground-rules for drawing reliable conclusions. A new approach to the mythic archetypes: is a unified theory of world mythology possible?

Plasma Science...

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:41 pm

~
Origins of Myth...

Greetings All,

As Peratt and co's. [Anthony L. Peratt, Fellow, IEEE, John McGovern, Alfred H. Qöyawayma, Life Member, IEEE, Marinus Anthony Van der Sluijs, and Mathias G. Peratt] in depth and well documented investigations [especially: "Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Parts I & II" ] ] seem to be the most recent and important sources, for the current participants of the discussion at hand;
may I submit that those 2 articles might well be the starting block for a reasoned analytical approach to this forum topic ?

Respectfuly,
Seasmith

~
:?:
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby Millennium » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:31 pm

kia ora, Seasmith,

however you inadvertently left out the URL for Peratt et al:

"Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Parts I & II"

can you post the URL?
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:52 pm

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:57 pm

Millennium wrote:kia ora, Seasmith,

however you inadvertently left out the URL for Peratt et al:

"Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Parts I & II"

can you post the URL?


Links are from the Los Alamos web site (no log-on or account required):

Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current, Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity
(Part I, 2003)
http://plasmascience.net/tpu/downloadsC ... 003clr.pdf (just under 12mb)

Characteristics for the Occurrence of a High-Current Z-Pinch Aurora as Recorded in Antiquity Part II:
Directionality and Source

(Part II, 2007)
http://plasmascience.net/tpu/downloadsC ... 4-2007.pdf (3.4 mb)

Other various papers:

http://plasmascience.net/tpu/papers.html
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby seasmith » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:21 pm

arc-us,

Part I was published in late 2003.
Part II was published late 2007, and bears the title addendum: "Directionality and Source". I have 1 and 2 as pdf files, which i am happy to share, with souces duly credited.
A Part III is apparently in the works.

[Rumor has it that Part II is now available on the web as free print.]

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:33 pm

Thanks, s. I updated my post above with the link to the other paper, which was lurking just underneath the other at the Los Alamos site and I hadn't noticed the sub-title.
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby davesmith_au » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:04 pm

Thought this topic could use its own thread, to save derailing Dave Talbott's topic.

I should be noted that I have seen nowhere in the public record which indicates Anthony Peratt's position with regard to EU. His work is simply pure Plasma Science in a Plasma Laboratory and nothing more, and it should not be implied whether or not he supports the EU position as such. Peratt has simply followed the evidence of his own research into plasma instabilities wherever it has led.

Having said that, his work is a fantastic representation of comparative methodology and how it can be utilized by EU proponents as evidence that 'real science' does appear to lend some degree of support to our hypothesis.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby David Talbott » Sat Apr 05, 2008 5:50 am

Thank you for that Dave Smith.

I do not know of any activity in plasma science today more important than Peratt's work. We must NEVER imply an endorsement by Peratt of any reconstruction involving planets. Peratt has never read Velikovsky, who inspired my own work, and I myself have no influence on Peratt whatsoever, apart from the fact that I was the one who, in the first place, directed his attention to plasma formations on rock art.

One reason for vigilance here is that there are now a couple of Inquisitors who, despite a complete absence of training in plasma science, have shown they'll do everything in their power to destroy anyone associated with us. For this reason we keep all communications with accredited scientists confidential, and if the Inquisitors knew how many well qualified scientists have come into our circle in the past couple of years, they'd have a nervous breakdown.

As for Peratt, his work is strictly scientific and independent of personal "theories and models." The results will come from supercomputers reading massive volumes of rock art data gathered in the field, to reconstruct what was seen from different vantage points on Earth. It's objective science at it's best, and it's a prodigious endeavor. In the end it will provide definitive answers to many questions, and if anything has the power to correct our own erroneous conclusions--wherever they may have occurred ;) -- it's Peratt's work.

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby MGmirkin » Mon Apr 07, 2008 4:40 pm

David Talbott wrote:Thank you for that Dave Smith.

I do not know of any activity in plasma science today more important than Peratt's work. We must NEVER imply an endorsement by Peratt of any reconstruction involving planets. [...]


Save that endorsement (in the public domain) which he himself has given of Dwardu Cardona's book God Star? Granted, it was not an endorsement of any specific model but rather of the excellent scholarship of the book, I'm sure... ;)

Anyway, I think Peratt's work is pretty awesome in its own right. Love his PIC (particle-in-cell) simulation that gives a rather interesting approximation of galaxy formation, which is itself a newer version of Bostick's plasmoids...
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby David Talbott » Wed Apr 30, 2008 3:28 pm

Time to update this thread a bit.

Here’s a thought on the relationship between plasma science and historical evidence. Can we be confident that a unification of two radically different fields of investigation is within reach?

My own confidence is based on a forensic approach to historical evidence, and I've claimed that this approach can lead to many reliable conclusions about the past. But It's essential that the historical reconstruction maintain the integrity of its independent methodology. It's conclusions must not be subordinated to any claims within the theoretical sciences. To let conventional science set the boundaries on historical investigation would be a disaster, excluding in advance the possibility that ancient witnesses observed things unknown to science. (In fact, on this matter I'll always be emphatic: the most important thing for astronomers and planetary scientists to hear is the message of ancient mythology. :) )

On the other hand ...
We can only gain by cross-referencing the historical reconstruction with dependable data in the physical sciences. I’m not talking here about popular scientific myths, but incontrovertible data. If the claimed events occurred, how could the planets involved not reveal to us tell-tale markers outside the explanatory power of standard models? Look at the picture I offered of the “White Crown” configuration, for example, and the hemispheric discharge of Mars that it requires (The Crowns of Sages and Warrior-Kings (Part 3):
WC_spaceCU.jpg

Remember that the configuration was formulated with virtually no attention to the geology of Mars. But how could this hemispheric discharge have occurred in the implied fashion without removing an immense amount of material from Mars, up to miles deep?
Would it not be logical to look for an anomalous hemispheric discontinuity in Martian geology? Here is an elevation map of Mars--
MarsSurfaceElevation.jpg

Well, it's at least enough to provoke further questions. The northern hemisphere of the planet is severely depressed. :) But standard models of planets evolving in isolation offer no framework for understanding such an irregularity. And what if it's not just the surface that is depressed in the north? Is there evidence that the crust itself has been eaten away to a dramatic degree? Now that would be quite an interesting detail! Here's a NASA map of crustal thickness. (I'm not vouching for the validity of assumptions going into their construction of the map):
MarsCrustalThickness.jpg

This is a crustal thickness map from pole to pole, north pole on the far left. How do you suppose, short of imagining some selective erosive force at work, the NASA folks will explain this?

Take the cross-referencing a step further. The rotating column of the hemispheric discharge as reconstructed appears to be a close analog to the rotating columns that create circular craters. And that's interesting too. Based on the hemispheric discharge evidence, imagine the profile of the entire northern hemisphere as a single crater--the lip of the crater lying at the equator, and the central bump so typical of electrical discharge cratering, lying at the north pole. Then as you continue back to the equator on the other side, you get the full profile of an electrical discharge crater. It really is a perfect match.

Well that's enough for a beginning.

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby David Talbott » Wed Apr 30, 2008 5:30 pm

Martian north pole geology

Another item in the list of Martian geologic anomalies. Some readers have seen this illustration from a video presentation in development, showing entwined twin filaments reaching upward from the pole of Mars toward a gathering of planets in an unstable, close congregation:
Planet Opening(TN).jpg

That unicorn-like horn is the essential attribute of the cosmic thunderbolt in its many variations. And as we've noted in Thunderbolts of the Gods, the warrior-hero himself is indistinguishable from his thunder-weapon.

Here too, I must emphasize that I had reconstructed the theme of twin filaments spiraling up the axis between Mars and Venus long before I saw this image of the Martian north pole:
NorthPole.jpg


Of course, a dipolar vortex is the last thing that most planetary scientists would want to hear about. But that is now becoming a major issue emphasized by electrical theorists in studies of Saturn, Venus, and Mars. Here is NASA's 3-D rendering of the north polar mountain:
MarsNPolarMt.jpg


My point here is to emphasize a principle we all recognize but do not always act upon. Truth is unified. Where contradictions occur, the underlying truth of the matter is not to be blamed. The problem lies with the limits of human understanding. Contradictions are always an invitation to look more deeply, to seek out the basis for reconciliation.

Things remembered by human beings in ancient times, brought to light through points of cross-cultural agreement, are going to help re-write the history of the solar system. And that process can be accelerated by grabbing hold of the reconstruction and forcing issues as to what planetary scientists should find if the reconstruction is fundamentally sound.

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby David Talbott » Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:02 pm

Last item for tonight.

I know that many folks have been following the work of plasma scientist, Anthony Peratt, in his study of global rock art.
http://plasmascience.net/tpu/downloadsC ... 4-2007.pdf

For us, the value of Peratt's work is that, 1) it is an independent, rigorously scientific inquiry with no ties to the Thunderbolts Project, and 2) it is not a theoretical adventure. Supercomputers, digesting thousands of petroglyphs from around the world, and using the precise global position of the rock carvings, are simply recognizing patterns where they are present and reconstructing a 3-D model of what was seen.

If the computer generates meaningful images from thousands of rock art images, drawn from different positions on Earth, the one thing you can be certain of is that it could not be accidental.

Peratt's stupendous undertaking involves dozens of scientists and field researchers. And there is one fact that could never be overlooked: the work has the potential to completely demolish every claim of our own reconstruction--IF we've headed in the wrong direction.

With that said, one of the first things I'd assume you'd want to know is whether the immense plasma spheres of charged bodies--which would be certain to show up if the rock artists were recording electrical activity of planets--have been detected by the computer analysis. I'll let you decide this for yourself. Here is the graphic reconstruction presented in Peratt's latest paper, noted above:
PlasmaSpheres.jpg

The caption to Peratt's fig. 66 reads, "Virtual image of the intense auroral plasma column as determined from FOV directivity, viewing angle of inclination, and GPS surveys of worldwide petroglyph 'pixels.' Not to scale."

According to the article the "two egg-shaped plasmoids are found at 306,000 and 266, 000 km, respectively. The farthest limit of the reconstruction (top) is located 701,000 km from Earth."

So I ask you, does anything here look familiar to you?

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby Plasmatic » Wed Apr 30, 2008 8:15 pm

Man Dave , I gotta say this video is shaping up to be a tour de force of concrete explanation of mythology. I cant wait to sit back , press play , and watch folks mouth drop open! I like it...
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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby MattL » Thu May 01, 2008 2:27 pm

Plasmatic wrote: I cant wait to sit back , press play , and watch folks mouth drop open!

Including mine! Many thanks, Dave, for your frequent contributions!
According to the article the "two egg-shaped plasmoids are found at 306,000 and 266, 000 km, respectively. The farthest limit of the reconstruction (top) is located 701,000 km from Earth."

Regarding the above distances, I found interesting the various distances b/t the moon and earth:
Perigee 363,300 km
Mean 384,400 km
Apogee 405,500 km

Cheers

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Re: Plasma Science...

Unread postby David Talbott » Thu May 01, 2008 7:00 pm

Thanks Plasmatic and Matt.

Having noted Peratt's independent work, I might mention for those who are not aware of the story a key turning point in the research.

As of the year 2000, certain phases of the Polar Configuration seemed entirely beyond experimental data available to us. Particularly elusive was a form I had called “the chain of arrows"--a series of embedded cones stretching up the axis between Mars and Venus. In the mythical expression of this theme an ancestral warrior or hero launches arrows toward the sky, and each arrow or arrowhead embeds itself in the one above it. The chain of arrows then becomes a ladder by which the hero ascends to heaven.

In the Kathlamet legend of a hero named "Many Swans," this great ancestor launches a stream of arrows heavenward, these forming a ladder of ascent to the sky. Numerous examples will be found in the Americas alone, but corollaries occur from Africa and India to the South Pacific. In the Hindu Ramayana the arrows of Arjuna form a chain capable of carrying the mighty Hanuman, the traveler between worlds. But the Greek tale of giants assaulting heaven, stacking one mountain peak upon another, presents the same basic form.

The global theme mocks every attempt of comparative mythologists to understand it. But it was clear to me that the "arrow chain" formed not just the "ladder of heaven" or a stack of mountain peaks. Gathered around these motifs in texts and art are numerous other themes, including: backbone of the sky, tower of heaven, flared skirt of the mother goddess, pyramid or steps of ascent, bound serpent or dragon, severed limbs of the serpent or dragon, and more. In the course of assimilating this material, it became clear to me that a simple evolutionary sequence explained the full range of symbolic connections, if one allows for the three-dimensional perspective of an observer on earth.
ArrowChainDark.jpg

(Sometime in the next few weeks I expect to have the time to summarize the converging lines of evidence.)

Despite my confidence in the reconstruction of this unique form, I could find no references to such a form in plasma research, though curiously enough, Wal Thornhill and I had been discussing this just a few days in advance of a conference in September 2000. Wal had said he was sure it was a plasma discharge form and would look into it. And at that very event we were presented with an answer, one that provided a quantum leap forward.

We were in a private gathering with several pioneering scientists including astronomers Halton Arp and Tom Van Flandern--and Tony Peratt. At one point Tony drew out a plasma discharge form he had documented in the laboratory. He called it the "Christmas tree." It was precisely the form I’d puzzled over for so long.

“You just drew “the chain of arrows,” I said. He had never heard the phrase, but he asked me how it formed. I described twin filaments winding up the polar axis, dividing into embedded toroidal cones, then taking the form of a stack of toruses. It turns out that this peculiar description - which I’d reconstructed only from mythologic elements - was in fact the evolution of what is called ‘The Peratt Instability’, a high energy plasma discharge configuration documented in the laboratory by Tony Peratt himself, but almost unknown outside the advanced plasma research community.

So Tony insisted that I send him the rock art images. And the first image I sent him did the trick. This is a carving on stone found in Kayenta, Arizona:
Kayenta.png

Tony immediately recognized it as a plasma discharge form. The similarities between this carved image and the plasma form, recorded in his laboratory, were too precise to be accidental.
KayentaExplained.png

The Kayenta image combines two primal forms found everywhere in mythology: the ladder or backbone of heaven and another extraordinary form--the eye mask--at its base. This too I had puzzled over, but with virtually no success.

So the chain of arrows became a talking point as I was deluging Tony with rock art images. At one point I mentioned to him that an interesting variation on the chain of arrows form occurred between Mars and Earth. In this case, a parallel series of arrow chains is indicated, well illustrated in this image from the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
Egypt_MarsArrows.jpg

Tony said he'd never seen such a form in the laboratory and suggested that the artists may have been recording a single arrow-chain in rotational motion--not a bad suggestion. But for a variety of reasons, I expressed confidence that the parallel chains were in fact exactly what was seen in the sky.

This was a prompt for Tony, who designed an experiment using a more spherical electrode. A day or so after the experiment I received a phone message from him: "You won't believe what I got--multiple chains of arrows."

So there's a moral here. Properly assimilated, historical testimony not only counts as evidence; it must be treated in its own right, through independent principles of reasoning. Instead of theoretical science imposing the "limits of plausibility" on historical investigation, there will be times when reliable conclusions from the historical reconstruction will alter the direction of scientific investigation. I'll always remember Tony's willingness to consider a new possibility as a symbol of the best in science.

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