Regarding recent guests to our forum...

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Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby mharratsc » Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:24 pm

Ladies and gents,

I would to make the gentle reminder of the below portion of our guidelines on the TB forum:

All posts to the scientific parts of the forum should be confined to properly constructed scientific arguments either supporting or challenging published Electric Universe theory. The ONLY places we treat as exceptions to these guidelines is on "The Human Question" and "New Insights and Mad Ideas" boards.


Recently we've entertained a few guests on the site for whom the PC/EU model is not an inarguable certainty, and I would like to remind everyone how well it would reflect on all supportive members of Thunderbolts if everyone could please remember to treat others with dignity and respect, regardless of their position on cosmology, or other disciplines.

Many of us have been treated less than favorably, if not downright harshly and disreputably, on other sites dedicated to more mainstream viewpoints. I, for one, would wish that we would show our guests the courtesy we would wish for ourselves as a guest at another forum. I think it would go a long way towards inviting any 'disagreeable' guests to consider us in a better light, and perhaps encourage them to be more open-minded regarding the PC/EU model.

I am personally of the opinion that the PC/EU model simply needs a mental 'open door' to make a huge impact... but no one is going to open that door if they are being treated in an uncivil fashion. :\

Most respectfully requested,
Last edited by davesmith_au on Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Change to global.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby Shelgeyr » Sun Nov 28, 2010 4:22 pm

Amen.

I would add that unconvinceable skeptics seem to be crucial to developing a well fleshed-out theory, otherwise you're developing in an echo chamber. As long as all parties are pursuing truth as evidenced by facts (and who is to say they aren't - we don't really get to honestly judge another's motives), we will all benefit even though we will never all agree.

I heard this morning that "'Education' is moving from an unconscious to a conscious awareness of ignorance" because the more we learn of any subject the more we come to know how little we know, and how much more there IS to know.

That said, although I know I don't like having my pet postulates shredded, or my ignorance exposed by someone other than myself, or my pet ox gored..., since we're dealing with a knowledge domain that is largely unexplored there are no nigh-all-knowing mentors who can guide us - thus having critics shoot holes in our arguments is a pretty important step.

I know that my own hypotheses are outlandish. They even sound so in my own ears. I still think they're true - or to be more precise "mostly true" - but I'll never know for certain without someone happily smashing to pieces the weak points (or flat our wrong parts) of my reasoning.

So as a participant, I say Welcome Aboard, Potential Adversaries! Well met!

Please be gentle!
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby Phorce » Mon Nov 29, 2010 2:13 am

Being new to this forum, how much trouble do you have with this kind of thing ? I hope I don't blow my credibility by saying this, but I used to be a member of a forum that followed "anomalies" like Cydonia and other esoteric subjects. I saw them go on a hate campaign against the Bad Astronomer that actually made me feel physically sick. I wonder if such things have more to do with insecure people using the net as an outlet. I've seen this especially with "minority" views such as EU where some feel the need to come in and defend "the cause" against "attacks". This appears connected with the conspiracy crowd as well who appear to use emerging Scientific views such as EU to promote their agenda of proving that the "NWO" (or replace with current fashionable phrase) is "suppressing" that Science. Ironically it is exactly this behaviour that ends up suppressing the Science because it sets up conflict between the emerging theories and many of the Scientists who are qualified to actually provide a coherent critique of the emerging Science (regardless of if they are a fan of the theory or not). Thanks (takes breath).
Exploration and discovery without honest investigation of "extraordinary" results leads to a Double Bind (Bateson, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_bind ) that creates loss of hope and depression. No more Double Binds !
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby Lloyd » Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:51 pm

* Well, Phorce, most folks here seem to be independent thinkers and each person probably has a different view and theory about many things. Since few proper scientific studies seem to have been done to prove that there are no conspiracies, conspiracy theories are just as welcome on an objective scientific forum, as are mainstream and PC theories. The same applies to many "anomalies". There are even some creationists here, who are also welcome. I used to participate in the Enterprise Mission conference rooms and there were plenty of anomalies and conspiracies discussed there. I left in 01 when they started requiring a small monthly fee.
* As for this website forum, the only thing is that these other theories are off-topic, except on the New Insights board and the Human Question board. I had a conspiracy thread on the New Insights board last year myself. You wouldn't happen to be a conspirator, would you? Something seems very suspicious.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby CCCstar » Thu Dec 02, 2010 6:53 pm

:!: Excellent. I have an uncle who is a "real" astronomer, held a chair at Mt. Palmor for years, a career in study of sun spot cycle. I would hope to learn enough here to have him wade into the E Sun model. Thanks
I Grok Pollack. Dr. Gerald Pollack is going to rock your universe in Vegas!
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby rjhuntington » Thu Dec 09, 2010 7:56 am

mharratsc wrote:Recently we've entertained a few guests on the site for whom the PC/EU model is not an inarguable certainty..."


I should hope there will be many more visits from multitudes of curious guests. It is the newly convinced who go out and enthusiastically rock the Standard Model boat. For that and other reasons we need to be very careful to treat all posters with respect. Of course, it should be easy for us PC/EU folk to be magnanimous since we are not the ones with careers invested in the Standard Model and thus have little at risk compared to the mainstreamers. In view of that, we should also be careful not to react unbecomingly to the exasperated expressions of cognitive dissonance that naturally result when the next Big Banger's cherished theory is reduced to shards on the floor, as surely it must be.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby kiwi » Sat Dec 25, 2010 6:16 pm

CCCstar wrote::!: Excellent. I have an uncle who is a "real" astronomer, held a chair at Mt. Palmor for years, a career in study of sun spot cycle. I would hope to learn enough here to have him wade into the E Sun model. Thanks



that would be great ... have you broached the subject with your uncle yet CCCstar?
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby KeepitRealMark » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:35 am

I have spent many hours at various science based forums. I have read thousands of opinions expressed. I find it rather interesting and a bit amusing that Most of the posters here at Thunderbolts forum express a modesty honest humble attitude of “I may be wrong”…or “I am not an expert on the issue”… All while presenting a hypothesis that I believe is accurate and real.
On the other hand.. Most of the posters at the gravity based sites express an arrogant attitude that they are absolutely correct, all while postulating what I believe is complete science fiction nonsense with no connection to reality. Black Holes being the best example of this phenomenon. Funny… isn’t it.

keep It REAL

Good Day
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby KeepitRealMark » Wed Jan 19, 2011 4:00 pm

Hey RJ

I really like the comment you posted above.... Perfect.

Keep it Civil.
Keep It REAL
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby James_stonegate » Wed Mar 30, 2011 8:34 am

Good Morning all,

I have read most all of the comment on this site (regarding elenin) this morning and find it interesting and HOPE that it is honest. I like the above posts. I am a single Dad raise young young ones and we have tons of faith.

My background in project manager for electric contractor. Thus, problem solver and thinker. No scientist. Read and throw things against the wall, see what stick and find the command thread. Read history and believe it repeats itself! Don't trust government to tell us what is real happening, the real size, real name, real orbit. Most is coming for jpl (i think nasa), which is gov. History and many civilizations have RECORD similar events and they can be ignore.

I think you all for good input and wish you all the best.

James
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby jgostomski » Tue Apr 12, 2011 7:52 pm

I will comply with this as I am very interested in the theory. Could we be looking a the glue to the unified field theory?
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby whitenightf3 » Mon May 09, 2011 7:55 am

Hi Everyone I am not a guest I have been a member here for some years now but do not post that often. I do pop in now and again to have a read and see how things are going.
My area is the study of consciousness and psychology although it is not in any professional capacity. Although, I have been in touch via the net with some very interesting scientists, who are only to happy to respond to my questions.
I even swapped e-mails with David Talbott and bought the book Thunderbolts of the God which was a really great read with some excellent photos and information that stretched back into antiquity.
In my opinion science should be transparent and open to discussion, however, I do see a negative influence in the form of censorship rearing its ugly head.
This especially happens when sceptics demand evidence for peer -review, when the author of the paper has had his paper dismissed for any number of reasons. I don't know about you but I find that deeply disturbing, and I know it happens. I have spoken to Rupert Sheldrake the Cambridge biologist about this and he was so frustrated by his work being attacked by sceptics that he set up a web page that exposed the sceptics and their methods.
It is worth checking out because the methods they employ are universal, they will employ the same methods against the EU hypothesis.

http://www.skepticalinvestigations.org/homepage.html

Honest scepticism I am all for it helps move science forward, but I have little time for the closed minded sceptic who refuse to even look at the evidence.

Just my thoughts for what they are worth.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby bobspurr » Fri May 13, 2011 12:08 pm

From the very first a problem has been nagging me and since I've never found a viable solution I'm bringing it to you because you were very friendly and helpful to me [a man whose IQ is no higher then the summer temps in some parts of the world] through your response to my earlier contact with Thunderbolt .
Over the decades I've read a lot of material produced by the BB'ers and from there printed work, interviews and as moderators of TV science programs I've got to know at least there public persona. Granted there are a number of Zanies [with colossal brains] in your sandbox as well as a good number of Peerage-want-to-be types but for the most part I saw people whose heads were firmly screwed on their shoulders. They seemed to be perfectly normal people who have the common sense to call a spade a spade when they run across one. I can't buy the idea that ALL these BBpeople are cloistered in ivory towers or that they are akin to religious fanatics. There has to be some sort of more fundamental real-world reason the Physics Community does not involve themselves in EU dialogue.
What if all the people on Steven Hawkings level know that the BB theory has proven to be a dead end and that the Electric Universe Theory is becoming more and more its possible successor? Just what could they do? Everyone on that level is at the very pinnacle in the world of Physics. In order to reach that level of existence first and foremost they need to be very deeply connected to governments, businesses and social institutions not the least of which, in Steven Hawkings case, was the university he served for 30 years. Cambridge in the world's eyes represents absolute and unquestioned truth and for centuries parents have sent their off spring there to learn just that, the truth. How would all those parents feel if they learned otherwise. How much would it effect all of the world's great universities's grants and endowments? Would not the armies of administrators and trustees also come under public scrutiny? What would the man behind the "big" desk do if Steven Hawkings had gone to him and openly admitted the BB theory is wrong. If that "revelation" went one step further, how would that man's personal place in this world be impacted? Before Professor Hawkings "Chair" got cold the man would have compiled a mental list of the hugely powerful, global corporations and even governments associated with the university, on a purely business level, who would be directly and perhaps immediately affected by this news becoming an official public declaration. How much time, energy and hard to get money would be spent on accelerators to find the famous "missing piece" of what Steven Hawkings [in my little scenario] just admitted was a non-existent puzzle or for that matter what about cold fusion since as it turns out suns [and everything else] run on electricity not nuclear fusion which EUers knew before the first billion left the presses.
Even more interesting, how do we dismantle a scientific discipline? It's far more then just a state of mind although that part alone permeates nearly every aspect of human society to one degree or another although I doubt most people realize the fact. Some areas would loose all connection to society both physically and socially. They simply would not apply anymore. Since the BB began as a reconciliation between science and religion what affect would the knowledge have on that institution?
Once the news was official, would legions of scientists fix there attention on the clean electric energy which not only happens to be within spitting distance but in an infinitely larger supply than will ever be needed to run a whole world of creative geniuses and of equal importance, it will never run out as long as the world stands. This alone is a powerful motivation towards globally supported research projects. If that sounds naive, I remember boarding a lot of short-hop planes whose rear end sat on a tiny back wheel and stewardesses handed us gum on boarding. Kennedy was in office at the time and one day right out of the blue he motivated us so profoundly we put the first man on the moon and in such a small space of time it still amazes me.
I'm not talking about any sort of conspiracy here, that would imply organization and people doing something to reach a given end. The BBer's appear to be doing the opposite, sitting on their hands perhaps to put off the end. I'm nothing but a dumb ol'farm boy and as I've told you before my only degree is in cow milking but if there is any truth in what I surmise, I'm far better off then the world's most brilliant scientist working under those circumstances. You have the chance to make history and at the same time help your fellow scientists who, unlike you, can't escape BBism.
Again if any of this is actually the way of things then our approach to the BBers is all wrong. We chide and taunt them for not coming to the middle of main street for a shoot-out but in reality they can't come out. We don't present facts we turn them into weapons against the BBers which only serves to isolate us and alienate them even further. Granted you boys have the science down pat but going to war isn't working. They are as smart as you boys, know what you know they simply are not where you are. What we might need is someone who can change our image. Make you into "fellow" scientists not antagonists and since I've watched TV from the moment it was mass produced [around 1948] it could be useful if EU become media friendly.
The object of all this is to raise our position so that the first step the BBers make is not a 1000 foot fall from the top of the tower and instead is a short lateral move to our side. You've got the science down, perhaps mastering the necessary social skills will help you pull off one of the most profound moments in human history.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby georgia » Thu May 19, 2011 4:03 am

First posting by a newcomer. In reply to - - by bobspurr » Fri May 13, 2011 12:08 pm - - Just wanted to acknowledge your posting on two counts. This octogenarian exited farm life as a teenager after collecting a lot of hens eggs, followed a lot of draft horses from the rear, mucked out a lot of stalls and pulled a lot of cow udders. Became a senior development engineer for several decades without formal education credentials. So I think we share much.

Feeling that extravagant claims need a place for germination to consolidate and find a following to produce extensive evidence. Also have the feeling those avenues for sharing are far more open now, than in the past. Limitations due to peer review in current pubs will likely be transcended by alternate publishing avenues, and these may also ultimately develop the need for peer review by suitably open-minded panels. Some of this may be occuring.

Funding of maverick science seems like a more difficult obstacle. Perhaps for good reasons. Perhaps it has been a traditional hurdle. Some 'deep pockets' have been needed to try new approaches in the area of 'the educational establishment' as an example with an outcome TBD.

Just for openers as a response, Georgia.
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Re: Regarding recent guests to our forum...

Unread postby mharratsc » Fri May 20, 2011 9:35 am

Bob,


You joke that your intellect is not the equal of most of the posters here, but your wisdom is unmatched, I think.

You've given us wise words, and I am going to try and take them to heart. I hope that many of the others here do also.

You've shown us a viewpoint that not many have looked through, regarding how 'up-against-the-wall' some scientists in these fields may feel right now, and likewise given us a way to help them 'transition', as it were.

Wise and kind both.

You're a good man, sir. :)

Mike H.
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