The Primer Fields

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby PersianPaladin » Fri Feb 08, 2013 5:50 pm

kiwi wrote:
PanosM wrote:Hi all,

Unfortunately this guy (David LaPoint is the name he is using but may be a nickname cause there is no info about him anywhere) is very hostile to EU and rather unfriendly as a person. He also claims that he will present absolute proof that EU is crap, that stars are fusion powered, etc.--------- Clue #1 :?


I had a brief conversation with him on Google+ in which i was very enthousiastic about his work and the applications of it (I am, he did a great job) but i did the "fatal mistake" to ask him if he has any idea about the cause of these magnetic fields and their shape.

He answered to me in a not that friendly way that they are intrinsic to all matter and that i should watch the videos because he explains that in the beginning.-------- Clue #2 :roll:


I told him that i had seen the videos twice and that i asked him the question because for me the term "intrinsic" is equal to the term "i don't know what causes them". ......His answer was a "thanks for the insults" and a ban.. :)-------- :idea: If this were a TV Gameshow, my answer would be :arrow: , "Are you Bill Gaede?" :twisted:



And his last name ends in POINT.

AHAHAHA!
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:10 pm

@
Details on pending patents are addressed here:

http://www.youtube.com/user/davelapoint ... yCwbkDzYK4
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby PanosM » Mon Feb 11, 2013 10:53 am

@kiwi & Persian Saladin

Well i don't really understand what you're trying to say but if you are implying that I'm him then I can ensure you that I am not.. I don't even like the guy and I made that post just because I'm following EU for several years, I like the theory and the people and when I've seen the fuzz on FB and this thread and i thought that since i already had a bad experience with the guy, it might be a good idea to warn you..

I was writting here also in the past under another name but forgot my pass.. :-)
I'm Greek, my name is Panos and my surname start with an M (thus and the user name).. if any of you is on FB in the Electric Universe group, you'll see me there too in full and you can ask me again to verify my identity..

Nevertheless, I'm still following his work and I believe that the two theories (EU and his) are complementary with EU providing the cosmological part and the mechanisms for the creation and evolution of these fields, while his theory providing a new insight into the mechanisms of electromagnetism.. i liked his third video a lot on that..

Don't know why he is so hostile to EU but i suspect that sinse he's planning to get some pattends and money out of this, he wants to be as indipendent as possible so that no one will come asking him for credit.. i can't think of another possible cause for ignoring electricity that much in his theory (especially when he keeps talking about flows of particles)

Have fun guys and keep away from conspiracies.. :)
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby xraydela » Thu Feb 21, 2013 3:40 pm

On the whole, I am impressed with LaPoint's experimental apparatus and ability to create a professional presentation.

I'm surprised to hear he is hostile to EU ideas. After all, his focus is on magnetic fields (not gravity) as explanation of galactic formations. But then again, his focus is on magnetic fields (not electric charges). So, maybe I can see he has the same problem as those astrophysicists who speak of magnetic fields of the sun as if a magnetic field is a 'thing in itself' rather than a phenomena indicative of the presence of moving electric charges.

Because EU Theory places an emphasis on plasma physics to explain galactic phenomena, LaPoint's prominent use of a plasma apparatus gives an impression that he's an EU advocate. I haven't monitored this discussion board in a while and upon coming across LaPoint's videos I genuinely expected to discover that he was now one of the core group of the Thunderbolts Team!

However, upon hearing about his hostility to EU and having viewed his first 3 videos now, I think I understand that his plasma apparatus is but another magnetic field probe he uses. I must compliment LaPoint though in how thorough he is in the various probing methods he uses in mapping out the magnetic field of his bowl shaped permanent magnets and demonstrating the unique effects they achieve. At on point he even used a ferromagnetic fluid to show the magnetic field produces regions in the fluid which align much like the steel balls do.

In his 3rd video on his explanation of bending/refraction of light I think LaPoint has to refine his model.
In his explanation of wave pattern produced on a screen in the double slit experiment, he shows a 'string' of photons, each of which has a 'bowl shaped' magnetic field. However, as I understand it, the wave pattern will still emerge (though not visibly in real-time) even if individual photons ONE-AT-A-TIME are shot into the apparatus.
How does one photon affect the next photon (even seconds or minutes later) going thru the apparatus such that an interference pattern still emerges in LaPoint's model?

In all, I think LaPoint has a big discovery here in terms of the geometry of the magnetic field his (proprietary?) bowl shaped permanent magnets produces and the effects on other nearby objects (which can be influenced by a magnetic field).
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Re: New video claims to invent new electric model

Unread postby MGmirkin » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:08 pm

PersianPaladin wrote:He believes that there is no (or much more minimal) external current powering stars and that the current is effectively enfolded (he's not really elaborating on HOW this happens) or "frozen in," at the atomic level.

Frozen-in currents and magnetic fields are essentially the same nonsense that astronomers keep repeating. It goes against all that we know empirically in the laboratory.

It's amazing how nonsense like this can get so much attention.


So, what, he's claiming everything is a permanent magnet? A big iron bar that's been magnetized? Or what?

I mean, it seems like that's what's implied by "electric currents" "frozen in" "at the atomic level." That seems to be the explanation of "permanent" ferromagnetism! Or am I totally missing something here??

*Facepalm!* :x

Seriously? That can't be his explanation... Everything's a big bar magnet? As someone once said (paraphrasing), 'there are precious few of those floating about in space'...

Has he read about Classical Electromagnetism? 'Cause, at least from your description, his description (are we playing a game of telephone here?) seems exactly synonymous with the Ampere model of permanent magnetism.

(Origin of Permanent Magnetism)
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/3 ... ode77.html

...atoms consist of negatively charged electrons in orbit around positively charged nuclei. A moving electric charge constitutes an electric current, so there must be a current associated with every electron in an atom. In most atoms, these currents cancel one another out, so that the atom carries zero net current. However, in the atoms of ferromagnetic materials (i.e., iron, cobalt, and nickel) this cancellation is not complete, so these atoms do carry a net current. Usually, the atomic currents are all jumbled up (i.e., they are not aligned in any particular plane) so that they average to zero on a macroscopic scale. However, if a ferromagnetic material is placed in a strong magnetic field then the currents circulating in each atom become aligned such that they flow predominately in the plane perpendicular to the field. In this situation, the currents can combine together to form a macroscopic magnetic field which reinforces the alignment field. In some ferromagnetic materials, the atomic currents remain aligned after the alignment field is switched off, so the macroscopic field generated by these currents also remains. We call such materials permanent magnets.

In conclusion, all magnetic fields encountered in nature are generated by circulating currents. There is no fundamental difference between the fields generated by permanent magnets and those generated by currents flowing around conventional electric circuits. In the former, case the currents which generate the fields circulate on the atomic scale, whereas, in the latter case, the currents circulate on a macroscopic scale (i.e., the scale of the circuit).


Seems like he needs to better explain how his theory differs from classical electromagnetism and exactly what his beef is...

(Magnetic Monopoles)
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/e ... ode35.html

all steady magnetic fields in the Universe are generated by circulating electric currents of some description. Such fields are solenoidal: that is, they never begin or end, and satisfy the field equation

Nabla * B = 0

This, incidentally, is the second of Maxwell's equations.


(Helmholtz's Theorem)
http://farside.ph.utexas.edu/teaching/e ... ode37.html

...steady electric and magnetic fields cannot generate themselves. Instead, they have to be generated by stationary charges and steady currents. So, if we come across a steady electric field we know that if we trace the field-lines back we shall eventually find a charge. Likewise, a steady magnetic field implies that there is a steady current flowing somewhere. All of these results follow from vector field theory (i.e., from the general properties of fields in three-dimensional space), prior to any investigation of electromagnetism.


Hate to beat a dead horse to a bloody pump... But it seems like the above needed reiterating. :D
"The purpose of science is to investigate the unexplained, not to explain the uninvestigated." ~Dr. Stephen Rorke
"For every PhD there is an equal and opposite PhD." ~Gibson's law
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby Alcibiades » Tue Mar 05, 2013 8:03 pm

Looks like Mr. David LaPoint couldn't be bothered finishing what he started, maybe it wasn't as important as he thought, or maybe he's doing something more interesting now.. hmmm

The rest of the PF series has been canceled. I will leave the existing videos up. I will be posting an explanation for all of this later this week. I have many concerns, but mainly I am just too busy with work to continue any further work on these videos.


Sorry to disappoint you.


Cheers, Dave
"Some of my finest hours have been spent on my back veranda, smoking hemp and observing as far as my eye can see.”-Thomas Jefferson
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby dfinsandsr » Sat Jun 08, 2013 1:21 pm

This in combo with pond fleshman stuff already being planned around it seems. Using mag bowl and deuterium tritium. Sorry about spelling and don't know how to link with new win 8. See June 8 Huffpost video Fusion engine to get to mars... Pretty cool Don't know if it validates all of LaPoints theories but its is being put into application. Go see and show the curious.
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby oz93666 » Sun Mar 02, 2014 11:33 pm

Regarding the authors alleged hostility ,there is a possibility that the original author has been removed , disappeared by the government and replaced by an agent to answer emails.
There is also a (remote) possibility of electronic circuitry and batteries being contained inside the bowl magnets. I'd very much like to know if it's possible to construct these from using a stack of different sizes of neodymium magnet rings that are available.
His strange convention of using blue and red arrows to map magnetic force is confusing and has led to a significant error I think. For example in this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NogyJ0k8Kw at 18:33 we have the bowl full of blue down pointing arrows with a line of red upward pointing arrows along the axis; but a red up arrow is the same as a blue down arrow , if we make the change the 'ejection zone' is lost! Something fishy.
Having said all that, his explanation of the particle/wave paradox of light was groundbreaking.
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby peter » Sun Apr 06, 2014 5:03 am

I believe the color of the arrows refer to the polarity of 'micro' magnetic particles of the plasma. Blue 'South' pointing. So the blue arrows come into the bowl get flipped (the polarity) by the Flip Ring up into the containment Bowl. Other Flipped micro magnetic plasma particles get either constrained by the confinement ring or ejected out through the confinement ring and the hole in the bottom of the bowl.

I think this is the correct interpretation.
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Extended Experiements Primer Fields

Unread postby Drakekay » Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:54 pm

Yay my first post. I'm gonna start off with a big one! Ive been absorbing all the information, reorganized and reanalyzed facts that have been presented through the "Electric Universe" Theory/Model. I love it! It fascinates me as fully as many other theories Ive encountered. Have you seen the video set called Primer Fields? Found em on youtube. To sum it up, he's applied voltage through two separate Cern shaped domes inside of a vacuum, they then proceed to experiment. I about died that first night from the flood of experiments I wish they had performed. I envisioned zero gravity, varying the size of the metallic spheroids, larger vacuum chamber. Heck I even went as far to wonder what would happen to a loosely packed ball of dirt. This to me seems like a valid example of Birkeland currents. I hypothesize that we can create a small body of mass in the center of this, the body would have to be scaled down proportionately to the scale between the pinch here and a similar pinch where a planetary body is concerned. This experiment most likely would need a zero gravity environment or perhaps there is a relationship where-in we would need a larger pinch to perform a similar action. We may find that his current equipment at those scales could function with fine grains of materials. Perhaps even within earths gravity this could be accomplished, a delivery method could be imposed inside the chamber. An envelope hanging from the top with a magnet attached to the lid to keep it closed, remove its companion magnet from the outside and the envelope opens. Fill it with materials for the experiment. Would we see the material accumulate in so many electron shells as the glow indicates could be present. Would we see layers, with definite space between them, spherical in nature? I wonder how well the energies from the opposing domes will influence the material. One possibility for sure is that some of the material may simply stick to the domes. If nothing else, I would love to see a smaller vacuum sealed sphere filled with materials placed inside and held in the middle of the two domes.
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Re: Extended Experiements Primer Fields

Unread postby seasmith » Sun Jul 06, 2014 5:22 pm

~
Welcome new member Drakekay


some previous primer field discussion here:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=9210

s
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Re: Extended Experiements Primer Fields

Unread postby LongtimeAirman » Sun Jul 06, 2014 7:03 pm

Drakekay, Welcome.

The Primer Fields was a favorite for me too. When you get through it, please report if there is anything new, say over the last 6 months or so, a lot of us would be interested.

REMCB
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Re: Extended Experiements Primer Fields

Unread postby Drakekay » Thu Jul 17, 2014 12:58 pm

LongtimeAirman wrote:Drakekay, Welcome.

The Primer Fields was a favorite for me too. When you get through it, please report if there is anything new, say over the last 6 months or so, a lot of us would be interested.

REMCB



I had not realized my hastily submitted post did not emphasize the new concepts I had in mind clearly enough. Forgive me, :D I felt a necessity to submit at least one topic or reply quickly. Knowing that I typical process my responses more slowly than I absorb & process new knowledge. However, that extra time I spend is simply double and triple checking my own work. lol I finished the series before I joined the forums.

Considering the activity and parameters in Primer fields & in Mr2tuff2's experiments. I am designing a set of experiments, schematics and a whole list of combined discipline theories. I'm very interested in relationships over scale differences. Are there distinct boundaries in the electromagnetic fields that material can be trapped within? Are these boundaries more observable at larger(than us or our perspective) scales? Like prisms of glass with slightly different angles side by side. I can't stop my self from thinking of Lagrangian points, Electron shells or an article I read about magnetic bubbles being born at the edge of the suns heliosphere.

First, I would like to create a spherical vacuum chamber. This chamber needs to have a mechanism to allow volumes of material to be completely contained within during the experiment but also to be readily removable. It may also need to be resistant to high temperatures. I'd like to apply surface voltage, magnetic fields, and other effects to the sphere and its contents(with the intent of experimenting with various delivery mechanisms to simulate celestial patterns). I can't help but imagine the material reorganizing and forming discreet layers within layers, especially when relating to the differences of inherent magnetic properties of each of the material types within the sphere. The ultimate result would be all the material converging around a central point. I can even picture a discreet outer layer of the gasses inside the chamber. Though I imagine we would need to run the experiment with the intent of nullifying external influences.
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby LongtimeAirman » Fri Jul 18, 2014 11:36 am

Drakekay, If I understand you correctly, I can envision a vault containing a large vacuum chamber within which we could place the experiment. Please consider:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=10653

CharlesChandler wrote: Here was my design to test the cathode model.

Solar Cathode Test, http://qdl.scs-inc.us/2ndParty/Images/C ... deTest.pdf

Of course this is a current posting so you may already be far ahead of me. Clearly it would be hard to keep up with you.

As I understand it, the cage walls and center electrode materials determine whether it acts as either a cathode or an anode, corresponding to rival solar models. I could easily be mistaken, not having studied it in any detail.

Like you, I would like to see a cern-like dome magnet option available to experiment with as well. I recall LaPoint used a birdcage sized experimental assembly, but would’nt it be great to create an anti gravity chamber, incorporating superconductor elements, and a strong upward charge flow, but that would probably overwhelm the interaction of charge strength, electricity, magnetism that you may be aiming for. We certainly need more experiments of these sort.

You asked a lot of questions I can only wonder at. Double walls between adjacent plasma volumes seems to answer one. I believe E/M behavior to be scale independent, I would swear I saw miniature nebulae.

I agree that it would be much more beneficial if we could interact with more civility. Our behavior seems suspiciously tribal.

REMCB
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Re: The Primer Fields

Unread postby Drakekay » Fri Jul 18, 2014 3:10 pm

First I would like to apologize if I came across as sounding in any way pompous or arrogant. I in no way believe myself to be smarter or faster than anyone in anyway. I believe comparing intelligence is like comparing two vast seas of variables, an Endeavor of futility to be sure and getting caught up with that is a game in egotism.

Yes it would seem CharlesChandler was also trying to elaborate a method to deliver electric charges. :D His method would cascade charges from an inner sphere outward or could be redirected inward. I could see lining that with material to observe those effects. I can also see duplicating this design for each of the planets, mounting them into their orbits using a mechanical stellarium(haa haa would have thought that word to be in the spell checker). Then applying a charge through the sun to illuminate the connectivity between it and the planets. However, I am curious about the suns outer, or greater connectivity, how does it or our solar system in general interrelate to the galaxy. Does the sun merely receive energy along its poles then emit that energy through its equator? Is the glow of light surrounding us actually glow that reached us from the sun, or is it the result of a charge hitting one side of the planet and exiting the other or both? Does this indicate that spherical bodies in space can act as both anode and cathode? Is this what we see in the relationships in a Rodin Coil, or the Z pinches? I even wonder if the frequency each planet vibrates at has anything to do with its orbit. All of these can be tested at much smaller scales. I was thinking a softball sized sphere. The scaled electrical charges on that could be much easier to manage.
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