NASA moon capsule running late, full of problems

[junglelord]

http://technology.sympatico.msn.ca/NASA ... &date=True

Yeah I am going out a limb here and calling their bluff....like they already went to the moon. I am not buying it. That was a good sell but a mad idea...and we all bought it. NASA, Never A Straight Answer....

With todays technology and materials science and the "experinece" of NASA, I fail to see how they could be behind schedule or have tons of problems...it does not add up. It should be a walk in the park, unless you never actually ever visited that park.

[bdw000]

I used to be sort of convinced that NASA did not send people to the moon.

I still consider that a possibility, but claim no knowledge.

The problem is that the claim is based on inconsistencies found in what NASA says.

But if the claim is that NASA is inherently dishnonest (as any government can be assumed to be), then it makes no sense to pretend that all of their reports and statements are going to be consistent with each other. It is a sort of catch 22.

One author from years ago thought that NASA had gone to the moon, but was lying about what it was like (that gravity was about the same as on earth, for example). He used high school level physics to analyze the video and come to that conclusion. If that is the case, then there will be statements that NASA eventually makes that don't add up.

These days, I tend to guess (no claim to knowledge here!) that they simply are not telling us anything at all about what is really going on, therefore we cannot treat even a report of "project delays" as relating to reality: it is all just cover stories.

[bdw000]

Has anyone here seen "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon" video available here:

http://www.moonmovie.com/

There are many conjectures in the first part of the video, but the part about the astronauts faking a view of the earth from the moon SEEMED pretty damning.

Even with today's video technology, to fake that video so completely, and that well, seems unlikely.

Who knows.

My primary suspicion is: how in the world could a video like that ever get out? That it was simply a "mistake" also seems unlikely. Unbelievable, in fact.

[BullSchmutz]

how many people would have to be involved... how many man hours to fake it all...

and then no one ever says a word about it after? How many thousand people would need to keep the same secret.




And how would you have kept the Russians from knowing about it.

[kevin]

Bullschmutz,
"How many people"
Not that many in a compartmentalized system, only the few at the top of a pyramid shape organisation will actually KNOW the whole picture.
"The Russians"
Maybe , just maybe , they are part of that top of the pyramid organisation?
How many accronyms are their in Nasa?
Would you risk your future, pension , life, family?
Kevin

[junglelord]

how many people would have to be involved... how many man hours to fake it all...

and then no one ever says a word about it after? How many thousand people would need to keep the same secret.




And how would you have kept the Russians from knowing about it.

I believe its called National Security....from what I can tell people will die to protect it if they have been granted need to know, thats why they are trusted. I know the USA can use deadly force if you walk into area 51...so its no game either way, dispite the propaganda. National Security is no laughing matter and how do we know what they are doing and did not do?

We can only do what we do, make some conclusions. I would say the video of the astronaunts with the fake pic of the earth in the window when according to the time and date on the video they were half way to the moon....and were actually in low earth orbit at the time....well that video did get leaked and it was never supposed to be seen. So someone somewhere gave us the smoking gun.

How do you keep the russians from knowing? Hell they had Sonar that could detect russian subs everywhere they went....and no one knew that till a few years ago. If they want to keep it secret they can do very well it seems.

[SciRPG]

It could be possible to check out this:

Find out the exact times of filmed Astronaut moonwalks.
Figure out which direction the shot is being taken at.
Figure out when the landing site was lit by the sun, or perhaps it was dark at the time? perhaps the light should be hitting the other side of the filmed subjects?

I wish they would have taken pictures of the stars from the moon, I wish they would take a photo of the landing site from a telescope or surveyor.

I don't know if they faked it or if it was real. With all these problems they are having now, its looking like its short on answers.

[bdw000]

how many people would have to be involved... how many man hours to fake it all...

and then no one ever says a word about it after? How many thousand people would need to keep the same secret.

And how would you have kept the Russians from knowing about it.

The classic example of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people all "keeping a secret" is the Manhattan Project (atom bomb project in WWII).

They kept THAT secret for years, proving that a similar sized scientific project can indeed be kept secret by a very large amount of people. And as someone above said, most of those people had no idea what they were working on.

[junglelord]

NASA looking for crash test dummies, sign up now and donate your body to science

http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1296

[BullSchmutz]

The classic example of HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of people all "keeping a secret" is the Manhattan Project (atom bomb project in WWII).

They kept THAT secret for years, proving that a similar sized scientific project can indeed be kept secret by a very large amount of people. And as someone above said, most of those people had no idea what they were working on.

The Russians knew about the Manhattan Project. They had moles in the project. Wouldn't be too smart of them to reveal that they were inside the Manhattan Project.

It would be very smart of them to expose the moon landing as a hoax. They would have had a LOT to win.

Best of all, the Russians didn't even have to try too hard to get into the M.P. There were scientists who sought out the Russians to give them information. Political ideologists.

[nick c]

Maybe I am being duped by Nasa, but I believe that they went to the Moon. (I don't trust government, my political philosophy tends toward 'that which governs least governs best.')
I don't think, landing and returning a man to the Moon is that remarkable when one considers that space probes could be sent to distant planets, simply a matter of outfitting a small spaceship for human cargo for a quick trip and return. The USSR's Luna probe flew by the Moon in 1959! Mariner 2 to Venus in 1962 etc, etc. Do Lunar Landing skeptics believe that the interplanetary probes were/are faked too? Manned missions to the Moon were well within the technology of the time, though no doubt at great economic cost, for scientific results that could have been done much cheaper with unmanned probes. But the bottom line is that it was great publicity.
Now, if I were to assess the believability in terms of probabilities, I would say that I am 99% for real and 1% for fake; I can't totally discount the possibility of it being a hoax, as I said I distrust them too.
The secrecy of the Manhattan Project is not a good comparison, the people involved believed that the country was in a life and death struggle to survive, they believed secrecy was necessary to protect the nation. Those keeping the secret of a lunar 'hoax' would soon realize that they were part of an effort to swindle the American people (and the rest of the world) and there would be, I would expect whistle blowers, and furthermore, details of the Manhattan Project are out, the secret was kept for only a short time, and the USSR did figure that out and get the information they needed to build nuclear bombs.
I agree with BullSchmutz, there is no way the USSR would not sniff out a lunar hoax, the alternative being that they were complicit, a highly unlikely situation given the tensions between the two countries. The USSR would love nothing more than to expose such a hoax, it would have been an enormous idealogical victory for the Iron Curtain.
I would have to see much better evidence, like... some ex Nasa official or scientist or astronaut, perhaps a 'deathbed' confession, come out and say "it was all a hoax," combined with some sort of paper trail...a revealing memo or such, perhaps some film, say some "outtakes," like film of an identifiable astronaut on the Moon taking off his helmet and saying "can I have a glass of water?" Analysis of the film would reveal that it was the same as used by Nasa on the Apollo missions.
The evidence presented thus far is not so convincing. But then as Paris Hilton once said, "Hey, I'm not a rock scientist."

Nick C

[redeye]

There must be plenty of Apollo detritus kicking about on the moon surface. With so many countries proposing manned and unmanned returns to the moon we should know the truth fairly soon.

Cheers!

[junglelord]

You would be surprised how much is hidden, or may be hidden.

CNN LARRY KING LIVE

Debate Over Existence of UFOs

Aired July 18, 2008 - 21:00 ET

Tonight, have UFOs shut down our government's defense systems?

There is evidence that something caused missiles to malfunction during test launches. Former Air Force officers tell their incredible story about the film that was confiscated by the CIA and what was on it and why don't officials want us to see it.

Find out right now on LARRY KING LIVE.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ ... kl.01.html

STANTON FRIEDMAN, PHYSICIST: Well, you know, I admire Bill's courage. I can't imagine a well-trained scientist who's an expert at communicating science to the general masses of people, who has courage enough to go on a national, international television program, to talk about something which he hasn't researched, something which he knows nothing about and pretend he's being a scientist about it. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of the debunkers making their research be proclamations.

Bill showed a document with, you know, names redacted. How about this is a CIA document, it took me five years to get, about UFOs. Not just names redacted.

KING: Are you saying, Stanton, as a physicist, that there are unidentified flying objects that have come from other places?

FRIEDMAN: Yes. I'm going beyond that. That's why the book is flying saucers and UFOs.

KING: They would be unidentified.

FRIEDMAN: Yes, I'm saying some UFOs are intelligently controlled extraterrestrial spacecraft. We're dealing with a cosmic Watergate, meaning a cover-up by the government. And there are no good arguments against those two. And we're dealing with the biggest story of the millennium.

Audio Interview: Jacques Vallee aired July 1, 2008
Two-hour conversation tackles such topics as Ufology & the media.
http://www.binnallofamerica.com/boaa7.20.8.html

Wrapping up the trilogy discussion, we talk about the third book, Revelations, starting with Vallee's enlightening observation that UFO sightings and their subsequent impact on our culture is a direct contradiction to the often-cited concept that the UFOs are bound by some kind of non-involvement directive.

We then discuss the UFO related documents that have been amassed over the last few decades and Vallee explains why he cautions against people putting too much stock into documents that have no source cited. He also talks about the naivete that surrounds FOIA released documents and warns about reading too much into which government departments had possessed such documents.

Heading towards the end, we discuss a very specific gem from Revelations, the Purple Justice case, which was a bizarre abduction in France that Jacques closely investigated. We wrap up the Revelations discussion with Jacques fleshing out his observation, put forth in the book, that many people in Ufology are driven by the need for vindication. First, Jacques explains how that is a natural human emotion, how he feels about that need for vindication for Ufologists, and when that motivation may become dangerous to the serious study of UFOs.

Closing out the show, we find out what's next for Jacques Vallee, where folks can pick up the Alien Contact trilogy and Messengers of Deception, and how folks can read his books on the history of the Internet.

I know the EU is not pro UFO. I apolgize for having a very different view when it comes to that subject. Since the mod's are kind enough to allow some leeway with these things, I do not want to let it get out of hand, and I thank the mod's for allowing us some room to express things we feel deeply about. After all if Stanton is correct, it is the biggest story of the millennium.


Besides everyone and their grandmother know that UFOs fly via Magnetic Flux drives, EU craft that they are....

[substance]

UFOs and moon-landing-conspirators? Is this the same EU forum or have I clicked a wrong link somewhere?!

[junglelord]

Indeed with a Apollo astronaut saying that ET has landed, what should we do, hide our collective head under a rock?
http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... 7&start=15

or maybe he just has gone senile because he went to the moon and the solar radiation fried his brain....


or maybe when a apollo astronaut says something so outrages, it must be false, correct?


Or maybe like Stanton says, we're dealing with the biggest story of the millennium.