Speculation about planets from a layman.

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby folaht » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:57 am

Just a thought,
it's probably been speculated before,
it goes with the assumption that all planets start with a similar surface and interior, much like titan, just different sizes,
meaning that both Mars and Mercury used to be planets much like ours, but have both been too close to bigger companions for too long.

If Enceladus gets zapped long enough all it's water would dissappear and you get a moon like Io
If Io gets zapped long enough, all there would be left is it's iron core, just like mars.
So mars would then be a planet that has been zapped so many times, that all there is left is a mixture of it's iron core with a bit of rock, oxygen and ice.
And If Io is medium and Mars is well done, then Mercury is overdone, which is why Mercury has even heavier metals than Mars.

This means that I think it's futile to look for life on mars, because I also doubt you would find life on earth if you'd peel it off to half it's size.
You'd even have a bigger chance to find fossils on the moon because at least the moon still has it's rocky

My "proof" comes from http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... _color.jpg
If you look at the craters, you see red and black stuff.
If I'm correct, then the red stuff is basalt and iron(III)oxide and the black stuff augite.
The same thing is found on mars. Mars is full of red and black stuff.

- With iron core -
Young
  • titan
  • venus
Mature iron/rock/ice
  • earth
  • europa
  • Enceladus
Battered - iron/rock
  • io
  • The moon
  • Triton?
Dead - iron
  • mars
Frying corpse
  • mercury

- Without iron core -
Mature
  • Callisto
  • Mimas
  • Tethys
  • Rhea
  • Miranda
  • Oberon (also has methane)
  • Titania (also has methane)
  • Umbriel (also has methane)
  • Ariel (also has methane)
Since 1 % 1, 1 * 1 and 1 - 1 do not add up, we must conclude that 1 + 1 is 3.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby folaht » Wed Jul 02, 2008 1:32 pm

I also that due to the many many many discharges, Io will somehow lose it's magnetic field. Just like mars has done.

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2002EGSGA..27.5119K

Galileo has now made six successful passes by Io. These passes have taken Galileo through the upstream, downstream, polar and Alfvén wing regions of Io. The two polar passes (Io 31 and Io 32) have yielded extremely valuable information on the internal field of Io. From these passes, it is clear that Io does not possess an appreciable internal magnetic field. By simultaneously modeling all of the magnetic data collected by Galileo in the vicinity of Io, we will provide an upper limit on the strength of the internal field.

The polar passes took Galileo through the Alfvén wings of Io. The Alfvén wings show considerable complexity in their magnetic structure. It appears that some of the promi- nent changes observed in the magnetic field in the Alfvén wings occur near locations of some well-known volcanoes. It is likely that the ionospheric conductivity is en- hanced near the volcanoes causing some of the observed magnetic field signatures. We will also present our first modeling results of the Alfvén wings.


From wikipedia I can see..

Mercury is similar in appearance to the Moon. It is heavily cratered, has no natural satellites and no substantial atmosphere. It has a large iron core, which generates a magnetic field about 1% as strong as that of the Earth.[8] It is an exceptionally dense planet due to the large size of its core. The surface temperatures on Mercury range from about 90 to 700 K (-183 ºC to 427 ºC),[9] with the subsolar point being the hottest and the bottoms of craters near the poles being the coldest.


Ganymede appears to be fully differentiated, consisting of an iron sulfate–iron core, silicate mantle and an outer ice mantle.[33][2] This model is supported by the low value of its dimensionless[h] moment of inertia—0.3105 ± 0.0028—which was measured during Galileo flybys.[33][2] In fact, Ganymede has the lowest moment of inertia among the solid solar system bodies. The existence of a liquid, iron-rich core provides a natural explanation for the intrinsic magnetic field of Ganymede detected by Galileo.[34] The convection in the liquid iron, which has high electrical conductivity, is the most reasonable model of magnetic field generation.


Europa is similar in bulk composition to the terrestrial planets, being primarily composed of silicate rock. It has an outer layer of water thought to be around 100 km (62 mi) thick; some as frozen-ice upper crust, some as liquid ocean underneath the ice. Recent magnetic field data from the Galileo orbiter showed that Europa has an induced magnetic field through interaction with Jupiter's, which suggests the presence of a subsurface conductive layer. The layer is likely a salty liquid water ocean. The crust is estimated to have undergone a shift of 80°, nearly flipping over (see true polar wander), which would be unlikely if the ice were solidly attached to the mantle.[3] Europa probably contains a metallic iron core.[23]


Callisto's battered surface lies on top of a cold, stiff, and icy lithosphere that is between 80 and 150 kilometers thick.[16][10] A salty ocean 50–200 kilometers deep may lie beneath the crust,[16][10] indicated by studies of the magnetic fields around Jupiter and its moons.[28][29] It was found that Callisto responds to Jupiter's varying background magnetic field like a perfectly conducting sphere; that is, the field cannot penetrate inside the moon, suggesting a layer of highly conductive fluid within it with a thickness of at least 10 km


But perhaps I'm only counting the hits...

The atmosphere is 98.4% nitrogen—the only dense, nitrogen-rich atmosphere in the solar system aside from the Earth's—with the remaining 1.6% composed of methane and trace amounts of other gases such as hydrocarbons (including ethane, diacetylene, methylacetylene, acetylene, propane, cyanoacetylene, hydrogen cyanide), carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanogen, argon and helium.[5] The orange color as seen from space must be produced by other more complex chemicals in small quantities, possibly tholins, tar-like organic precipitates.[28] The hydrocarbons are thought to form in Titan's upper atmosphere in reactions resulting from the breakup of methane by the Sun's ultraviolet light, producing a thick orange smog. Titan has no magnetic field and sometimes orbits outside Saturn's magnetosphere, directly exposing it to the solar wind. This may ionize and carry away some molecules from the top of the atmosphere. In November 2007, scientists uncovered evidence of negative ions with roughly 10,000 times the mass of hydrogen in Titan's ionosphere, which are believed to fall into the lower regions to form the orange haze which obscures Titan's surface. Their structure is not currently known, but they are believed to be tholins, and may form the basis for the formation of more complex molecules, such as polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.[29]


In 1980, The Pioneer Venus Orbiter found that Venus's magnetic field is both weaker and smaller (i.e. closer to the planet) than Earth's. What small magnetic field is present is induced by an interaction between the ionosphere and the solar wind,[30] rather than by an internal dynamo in the core like the one inside the Earth. Venus's magnetosphere is too weak to protect the atmosphere from cosmic radiation.

This lack of an intrinsic magnetic field at Venus was surprising given that it is similar to Earth in size, and was expected to also contain a dynamo in its core. A dynamo requires three things: a conducting liquid, rotation, and convection. The core is thought to be electrically conductive, however. Also, while its rotation is often thought to be too slow, simulations show that it is quite adequate to produce a dynamo.[31][32] This implies that the dynamo is missing because of a lack of convection in Venus's core. On Earth, convection occurs in the liquid outer layer of the core because the bottom of the liquid layer is much hotter than the top. Since Venus has no plate tectonics to let off heat, it is possible that it has no solid inner core, or that its core is not currently cooling, so that the entire liquid part of the core is at approximately the same temperature. Another possibility is that its core has already completely solidified.


Or perhaps it's because both of those planets are still young and so their magnetic fields need a kickstart or will slowly form once they get older.




So... can anyone refute my idea of Mars being a rusty old planet, who shared the same fate Io is going through now?
And that of moons and planets birthed by gas giants start with an iron core, rocky mantle and an atmosphere that will become mostly water when matured?
Since 1 % 1, 1 * 1 and 1 - 1 do not add up, we must conclude that 1 + 1 is 3.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby folaht » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:45 pm

Wait.. I think just understand basic electric stuff now.

Since if Mars got Gigazapped (zapped so many times) most of it's liquid core has surfaced and has either melted or chemically reacted with water and silicate.
If it's molten those positive charged liquid iron particles cannot move freely around and therefor would not have such a strong magnetosphere like the earth right?
No electric current, no magnetic field.
Since 1 % 1, 1 * 1 and 1 - 1 do not add up, we must conclude that 1 + 1 is 3.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby Divinity » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:00 am

Earth's Core, Magnetic Field Changing Fast, Study Says Kimberly Johnson
for National Geographic News
June 30, 2008

Rapid changes in the churning movement of Earth's liquid outer core are weakening the magnetic field in some regions of the planet's surface, a new study says.

"What is so surprising is that rapid, almost sudden, changes take place in the Earth's magnetic field," said study co-author Nils Olsen, a geophysicist at the Danish National Space Center in Copenhagen.

The findings suggest similarly quick changes are simultaneously occurring in the liquid metal, 1,900 miles (3,000 kilometers) below the surface, he said.

The swirling flow of molten iron and nickel around Earth's solid center triggers an electrical current, which generates the planet's magnetic field.

The study, published recently in Nature Geoscience, modeled Earth's magnetic field using nine years of highly accurate satellite data.

Flip-Flop

Fluctuations in the magnetic field have occurred in several far-flung regions of Earth, the researchers found.

In 2003 scientists found pronounced changes in the magnetic field in the Australasian region. In 2004, however, the changes were focused on Southern Africa.


The changes "may suggest the possibility of an upcoming reversal of the geomagnetic field," said study co-author Mioara Mandea, a scientist at the German Research Centre for Geosciences in Potsdam.

Earth's magnetic field has reversed hundreds of times over the past billion years, and the process could take thousands of years to complete.


Upper Atmosphere Radiation

The decline in the magnetic field also is opening Earth's upper atmosphere to intense charged particle radiation, scientists say.

Satellite data show the geomagnetic field decreasing in the South Atlantic region, Mandea said, adding that an oval-shaped area east of Brazil is significantly weaker than similar latitudes in other parts of the world.

"It is in this region that the shielding effect of the magnetic field is severely reduced, thus allowing high energy particles of the hard radiation belt to penetrate deep into the upper atmosphere to altitudes below a hundred kilometers (62 miles)," Mandea said.

This radiation does not influence temperatures on Earth. The particles, however, do affect technical and radio equipment and can damage electronic equipment on satellites and airplanes, Olsen of the Danish space center said.


Keep Watching

The study documents just how rapidly the flow in Earth's core is changing, said Peter Olson, a geophysics professor at Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, who was not involved with the research.

By using satellite imagery, researchers have a nearly continuous measurement of changes, he said.

"They provide a good rationale to continue this monitoring longer," Olson said.

8-)

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ore_2.html
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby Divinity » Fri Jul 04, 2008 9:25 am

Thank you to Lizzie for this link, which may have been previously posted. This article was written in 1998 :o : The Russians have either been studying these Earth changes for longer or are certainly more open about them than Western scientists. My interest in this is really about how these environmental changes will affect humans, in the psychic/spiritual/mental sense. As the Biosophere changes, it stands to reason that all life on Earth will do so:


http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/global ... sical.html

Summary Paragraph
-----------------------

Current PlanetoPhysical alterations of the Earth are becoming irreversible. Strong evidence exists that these transformations are being caused by highly charged material and energetic non-uniformity's in anisotropic interstellar space which have broken into the interplanetary area of our Solar System. This "donation" of energy is producing hybrid processes and excited energy states in all planets, as well as the Sun. Effects here on Earth are to be found in the acceleration of the magnetic pole shift, in the vertical and horizontal ozone content distribution, and in the increased frequency and magnitude of significant catastrophic climatic events. There is growing probability that we are moving into a rapid temperature instability period similar to the one that took place 10,000 years ago. The adaptive responses of the biosphere, and humanity, to these new conditions may lead to a total global revision of the range of species and life on Earth. It is only through a deep understanding of the fundamental changes taking place in the natural environment surrounding us that politicians, and citizens a like, will be able to achieve balance with the renewing flow of PlanetoPhysical states and processes.


INTRODUCTION
Current, in process, geological, geophysical, and climatical alterations of the Earth are becoming more, and more, irreversible. At the present time researchers are revealing some of the causes which are leading to a general reorganization of the electro-magnetosphere (the electromagnetic skeleton) of our planet, and of its climatic machinery. A greater number of specialists in climatology, geophysics, planetophysics, and heliophysics are tending towards a cosmic causative sequence version for what is happening. Indeed, events of the last decade give strong evidence of unusually significant heliospheric and planetophysic transformations [1,2]. Given the quality, quantity, and scale of these transformations we may say that:

The climatic and biosphere processes here on Earth (through a tightly connected feedback system) are directly impacted by, and linked back to, the general overall transformational processes taking place in our Solar System. We must begin to organize our attention and thinking to understand that climatic changes on Earth are only one part, or link, in a whole chain of events taking place in our Heliosphere.

These deep physical processes, these new qualities of our physical and geological environment, will impose special adaptive challenges and requirements for all life forms on Earth. Considering the problems of adaptation our biosphere will have with these new physical conditions on Earth, we need to distinguish the general tendency and nature of the changes. As we will show below,these tendencies may be traced in the direction of planet energy capacity growth (capacitance), which is leading to a highly excited or charged state of some of Earth's systems.The most intense transformations are taking place in the planetary gas-plasma envelopes to which the productive possibilities of our biosphere are timed. Currently this new scenario of excess energy run-off is being formed, and observed:

In the ionosphere by plasma generation.

In the magnetosphere by magnetic storms.

In the atmosphere by cyclones.

This high-energy atmospheric phenomena, which was rare in the past, is now becoming more frequent, intense, and changed in its nature. The material composition of the gas-plasma envelope is also being transformed.

It is quite natural for the whole biota of the Earth to be subjected to these changing conditions of the electromagnetic field, and to the significant deep alterations of Earth's climatic machinery. These fundamental processes of change create a demand within all of Earth's life organisms for new forms of adaptation. The natural development of these new forms may lead to a total global revision of the range of species, and life, on Earth . New deeper qualities of life itself may come forth, bringing the new physical state of the Earth to an equilibrium with the new organismic possibilities of development, reproduction, and perfection. In this sense it is evident that we are faced with a problem of the adaptation of humanity to this new state of the Earth; new conditions on Earth whose biospheric qualities are varying, and non-uniformly distributed. Therefore the current period of transformation is transient, and the transition of life's representatives to the future may take place only after a deep evaluation of what it will take to comply with these new Earthly biospheric conditions. Each living representative on Earth will be getting a thorough "examination," or "quality control inspection," to determine it's ability to comply with these new conditions.These evolutionary challenges always require effort, or endurance, be it individual organisms, species, or communities. Therefore, it is not only the climate that is becoming new, but we as human beings are experiencing a global change in the vital processes of living organisms, or life itself; which is yet another link in the total process. We cannot treat such things separately, or individually.

1.0 TRANSFORMATION OF THE SOLAR SYSTEM

2.0 THE EARTH REORGANIZATION PROCESSES

3.0 THE ARRIVAL OF NEW CONDITIONS AND CONSEQUENCES

CONCLUSION
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby lizzie » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:30 pm

http://www.goldenageproject.org.uk/earth.html

Scientist, scholar and author, Paul LaViolette presents astronomical and geological evidence of the occurrence of a global conflagration, catastrophic deluge, and mass extinction at the end of the last ice age. He links this with ancient records, revealing that an advanced antediluvian culture had met with an untimely demise. He shows that this climate altering event was triggered by intense cosmic ray winds arriving from the galactic centre. He explains how the ancients have left us sophisticated messages encoded in myths and lores warning us of this recurring disaster which will arrive again with little warning.


http://earthchangesmedia.com/tvguests/biolaviolette.htm

Furthermore, in the area of archeology and archaeoastronomy, Dr. LaViolette is the first to discover and decode a scientifically advanced time-capsule message concealed in the lore of the zodiac and which utilizes a cryptographic key-and-check mechanism to facilitate cross-cultural transmission of its encoded knowledge.

He found that this cipher describes the Galactic and solar cause of the legendary global catastrophe that decimated civilization at the end of the last ice age and that gave rise to numerous myths about the darkening of the luminaries, burning of the Earth, and occurrence of a great flood.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby junglelord » Fri Jul 04, 2008 8:55 pm

Wow you do come up with some good links Lizzie.
:D
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/LaViolette.html
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/Predict.html

Wonder if a gravity wave did preceed the gamma ray burst of Dec 27 on Dec 26 and cause the tsunami?
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby moses » Fri Jul 04, 2008 11:47 pm

junglelord wrote:Wow you do come up with some good links Lizzie.
:D
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/LaViolette.html
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/Predict.html

Wonder if a gravity wave did preceed the gamma ray burst of Dec 27 on Dec 26 and cause the tsunami?
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html

Was the GRB produced by an electrical breakdown or an
explosion of matter ? If electrically, then scalar waves
are possible. The connection between the GRB and the
extremely massive earthquake is too strong. Some sort
of wave came from there to here.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby lizzie » Sat Jul 05, 2008 10:15 am

Moses said:

Was the GRB produced by an electrical breakdown or an explosion of matter ? If electrically, then scalar waves are possible. The connection between the GRB and the extremely massive earthquake is too strong. Some sort of wave came from there to here.


Yes, apparently galactic superwaves produce scalar waves.

Galactic Superwaves: Their Effects on Life and Society
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/Galactic3.html

When cosmic rays from Galactic superwaves impact the Earth's atmosphere, they produce "electron cascades."

Galactic superwaves may also produce an intense electromagnetic pulse (EMP) whenever a cosmic ray front happens to strike the Earth's atmosphere.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby Divinity » Sat Jul 05, 2008 12:44 pm

moses wrote:
junglelord wrote:Wow you do come up with some good links Lizzie.
:D
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/LaViolette.html
http://www.etheric.com/LaViolette/Predict.html

Wonder if a gravity wave did preceed the gamma ray burst of Dec 27 on Dec 26 and cause the tsunami?
http://www.etheric.com/GalacticCenter/GRB.html

Was the GRB produced by an electrical breakdown or an
explosion of matter ? If electrically, then scalar waves
are possible. The connection between the GRB and the
extremely massive earthquake is too strong. Some sort
of wave came from there to here.
Mo


I agree. I remember the Gamma Ray Burst shortly before the tsunami and thought, at the time, it could not be a coincidence. Of course, nothing from official sources would suggest this but you bet it sent the World Govts. into a spin :D

Does anyone know if GR Bursts travel at superluminal speeds? In an Electric Universe, I would imagine there would be no limits to how fast energy could travel, i.e. it is not restricted to 'light speed'.

Thanks for the links, Lizzie. LaViolette is definitely onto something.
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Re: Speculation about planets from a layman.

Unread postby StevenO » Sat Jul 05, 2008 2:45 pm

Divinity wrote:I agree. I remember the Gamma Ray Burst shortly before the tsunami and thought, at the time, it could not be a coincidence. Of course, nothing from official sources would suggest this but you bet it sent the World Govts. into a spin :D

Does anyone know if GR Bursts travel at superluminal speeds? In an Electric Universe, I would imagine there would be no limits to how fast energy could travel, i.e. it is not restricted to 'light speed'.

Thanks for the links, Lizzie. LaViolette is definitely onto something.

Actually energy, being the reciprocal of "speed" always moves faster than light as an harmonic motion (a movement in the time domain). So indeed the correlation of these kind of events could be very well be a real standing wave effect.
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