9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

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9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby folaht » Wed Jul 02, 2008 4:50 am

1
Which moon was the last one born? and when was that?
2
When can I expect to see a planet birth?
3
The red spots on Jupiter isn't indication of another birth is it?
4
When can I expect a moon leaving it's parent?

5
I assume that all planets are moving outwardly, so Jupiter is the 4th and last planetbirth from the sun, wouldn't it then have swallowed the whole asteroid belt,
or did the asteroid belt come after Jupiter?
And has jupiter then perhaps swallowed more than half of saturn's afterbirth? With the greeks and trojans being the remains of it?

6
Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Inne ... tem-en.png ,
why does it look like the "trojans" and "greeks" both originally came from Hildas to charge, as in attack, Jupiter?

7
Couldn't mercury, venus earth, mars and the moon be simlpy afterbirth of the sun? or even born from the sun?

8
Why should saturn have all the solar orbiting planets? Apart from historic mythology that is.
Would it not be more likely for the earth originating from Jupiter?
And what happened to those planets moons created from Neptune and Uranus while they were still young?

9
How can we determine which of the 4 inner planets is the youngest and which one the oldest?


If the answer is unknown, what could possibly give a clue?
Since 1 % 1, 1 * 1 and 1 - 1 do not add up, we must conclude that 1 + 1 is 3.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby StevenO » Wed Jul 02, 2008 5:54 am

I'm no expert at this, but as for a clue when to expect planet birth I can tell this:

Planet birth happens when a star starts the convert the iron-nickel class of elements into energy.
Basically all the collected iron-nickel class collected elements in the interior (center) of the star will be expelled in a birthing sequence with the corresponding giant electrical aftermath.

If, how and when these conditions are reached on planets I can only speculate.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby Krackonis » Fri Jul 04, 2008 2:09 pm

_sluimers_ wrote:1
Which moon was the last one born? and when was that?
2
When can I expect to see a planet birth?
3
The red spots on Jupiter isn't indication of another birth is it?
4
When can I expect a moon leaving it's parent?

5
I assume that all planets are moving outwardly, so Jupiter is the 4th and last planetbirth from the sun, wouldn't it then have swallowed the whole asteroid belt,
or did the asteroid belt come after Jupiter?
And has jupiter then perhaps swallowed more than half of saturn's afterbirth? With the greeks and trojans being the remains of it?

6
Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Inne ... tem-en.png ,
why does it look like the "trojans" and "greeks" both originally came from Hildas to charge, as in attack, Jupiter?

7
Couldn't mercury, venus earth, mars and the moon be simlpy afterbirth of the sun? or even born from the sun?

8
Why should saturn have all the solar orbiting planets? Apart from historic mythology that is.
Would it not be more likely for the earth originating from Jupiter?
And what happened to those planets moons created from Neptune and Uranus while they were still young?

9
How can we determine which of the 4 inner planets is the youngest and which one the oldest?


If the answer is unknown, what could possibly give a clue?



Let me try and help as best I can. ;P

1. The last 'born' planets or expulsions was Venus and Titan(moon of Saturns) Venus expelled within human memory, about 4200 BC or so according to some. This event is shown in the symbol 'The Eye of Ra'.

2. Well, if we have something that causes an interaction between two planets of sufficent amperage or the current to the solar system increased significantly. (The sun is going down in power currently it does this on regular cycles as it gets its power from the Galaxy, obviously the current is no homogenous.

3. It may be. I cannot confirm or deny that, but many think it may be.

4. Moon's don't even leave their parent unless something makes them. Right now our system is fairly stable but an interloper from outside the system could wreck havoc.

5. The events of ~3114bc was the interaction of Jupiter, coming from the inside, and Saturn. The 'afterbirth' was in the sky all around us and settled into rings by our planets magnetic field. This is Oceanos to the Greeks and the Duat to the Egyptians. They lasted until either the moon or venus came by. Eventually they were lost.

6. I have no idea... ;P

7. It's possible. Though evidence of the past of the earth indicate that we went from a huge slow growing armoured plant life (deciduous trees)to seasonal plant life (orchids, roses etc.) at about 250 million years ago (of course that is using supposedly accurate dating from conventional sources) This seems to say that there was a time when the earth did not have a year. Being completely inside a brown dwarfs(Saturn's) corona of wispy plasma would be likely.

8. I don't think Saturn had all the orbiting planets. Mars may not be, Mercury may not be... As for the moons of Uranus and Neptune, they are still there. Moons orbit on the equator of their parent, unless they have been dislodged, and in that case, they will orbit something.

9. Temperature and Atmospheric density. The leftovers of birth from a Giant planet with a thick atmosphere (Saturn) would be to take some of that atmosphere with it. Venus and Titan both have atmosphere's thicker than our oceans.

I do hope that helps.
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Third Reply

Unread postby Lloyd » Fri Jul 04, 2008 7:32 pm

StevenO
Planet birth happens when a star starts to convert the iron-nickel class of elements into energy. Basically all the collected iron-nickel class collected elements in the interior (center) of the star will be expelled in a birthing sequence with the corresponding giant electrical aftermath.
_L. I think electrical stress is what determines when a star fissions, as well determining its color. Some of our local theorists think stars have iron surfaces. So I guess red and brown dwarfs may have molten silicate surfaces and molten iron interiors. They also have thick atmospheres that hide their surfaces. Maybe radar or seismic studies will reveal the truth in a few years.

Krackonis and Lloyd
1 Which moon was the last one born? and when was that?
_K1. The last 'born' planets or expulsions was Venus and Titan (moon of Saturns) Venus expelled within human memory, about 4200 BC or so according to some. This event is shown in the symbol 'The Eye of Ra'.
_L1. I concur. Venus seems likely the most recent birth from Saturn, since it's still so hot. Titan may be a little more ancient, or it may be about the same age as Venus. Being smaller, it would cool off quicker. But my guess is that's it's older. I think our local EU theorists are estimating now that Venus is from 5 to 10 thousand years old. Velikovsky had thought it was born from Jupiter, but Talbott, Cardona et al have decided that Saturn is much more likely the parent.

2 When can I expect to see a planet birth?
_K2. Well, if we have something that causes an interaction between two planets of sufficent amperage or the current to the solar system increased significantly. (The sun is going down in power currently it does this on regular cycles as it gets its power from the Galaxy, obviously the current is no[t] homogenous.
_L2. I think they've been thinking that red and brown dwarf stars are what mainly birth rocky planets. Saturn and maybe Jupiter used to be brown dwarfs, but, since they entered the solar system, I think they can no longer birth planets, because the sun is not the focus of local electrical stress. I think any star that is under enough electrical stress will fission, sometimes into 2 equal halves, but usually into unequally sized parts. I think the color of a star tells how much electrical stress it's under, but I don't recall which colors mean more or less stress.

3 The red spots on Jupiter isn't indication of another birth is it?
_K3. It may be. I cannot confirm or deny that, but many think it may be.
_L3. That used to be a popular catastrophist theory, but I think Thornhill has said that for a cyclone to remain in one place like that for a long time suggests there's something big sticking up on a solid surface of Jupiter. I think that something is thought to be a mountain rather than a new body forming. I think planets and moons are thought to birth very quickly, maybe ofr days, not over centuries.

4 When can I expect a moon leaving it's parent?
_K4. Moon's don't even leave their parent unless something makes them. Right now our system is fairly stable but an interloper from outside the system could wreck havoc.
_L4. I think humans should take an icy moon or asteroid to Venus and dump it on Venus to cool it down so life can take hold there. So, if any space agency takes up my idea, it could happen within a century. You're not likely to see a moon leave its planet naturally within the solar system, unless they redefine planets. You're more likely to see a small moon crash into its planet or another moon.

5 I assume that all planets are moving outwardly, so Jupiter is the 4th and last planet-birth from the sun, wouldn't it then have swallowed the whole asteroid belt, or did the asteroid belt come after Jupiter? And has jupiter then perhaps swallowed more than half of saturn's afterbirth? With the greeks and trojans being the remains of it?
_K5. The events of ~3114bc was the interaction of Jupiter, coming from the inside, and Saturn. The 'afterbirth' was in the sky all around us and settled into rings by our planets magnetic field. This is Oceanos to the Greeks and the Duat to the Egyptians. They lasted until either the moon or venus came by. Eventually they were lost.
_L5. Most local EU theorists don't seem to accept this 3114 BC idea, which I think comes from another independent theorist. Talbott and Thornhill's theory is that Saturn was a brown dwarf star outside of the solar system, of which Venus, Mars, Earth were moons along with Saturn's other lesser moons, which probably included our moon and maybe Mercury. When the Saturn system arrived at the asteroid belt, the system fell apart, putting things where they are now. The asteroids were apparently part of the Saturn system.

6 Looking at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Inne ... tem-en.png , why does it look like the "trojans" and "greeks" both originally came from Hildas to charge, as in attack, Jupiter?
_K6. I have no idea... ;P
_L6. See my previous answer, #5.

7 Couldn't mercury, venus earth, mars and the moon be simlpy afterbirth of the sun? or even born from the sun?
_K7. It's possible. Though evidence of the past of the earth indicate that we went from a huge slow growing armoured plant life (deciduous trees) to seasonal plant life (orchids, roses etc.) at about 250 million years ago (of course that is using supposedly accurate dating from conventional sources) This seems to say that there was a time when the earth did not have a year. Being completely inside a brown dwarf's (Saturn's) corona of wispy plasma would be likely.
_L7. Mythology indicates that the Earth, as part of the Saturn system, didn't join the solar system until 5 to 10 thousand years ago.

8 Why should saturn have all the solar orbiting planets? Apart from historic mythology that is. Would it not be more likely for the earth originating from Jupiter? And what happened to those planets moons created from Neptune and Uranus while they were still young?
_K8. I don't think Saturn had all the orbiting planets. Mars may not be, Mercury may not be... As for the moons of Uranus and Neptune, they are still there. Moons orbit on the equator of their parent, unless they have been dislodged, and in that case, they will orbit something.
_L8. If you ignore mythology, as conventional science does, you can come up with lots of theories. But, if our ancestors were witnesses to major changes as they claimed they were, and if their claims hold up to objective scientific analysis, then the likelihood is that the inner planets and maybe our moon came from Saturn. Our local theorists don't seem to feel certain whether Jupiter, Uranus and Neptune were part of the solar system or the Saturn system as yet. So it's possible that Jupiter may have had more involvement, though myths seem to put Jupiter as a late player and may not mention Uranus and Neptune at all, suggesting that they may all have been with the sun from the start.

9 How can we determine which of the 4 inner planets is the youngest and which one the oldest? If the answer is unknown, what could possibly give a clue?
_K9. Temperature and Atmospheric density. The leftovers of birth from a Giant planet with a thick atmosphere (Saturn) would be to take some of that atmosphere with it. Venus and Titan both have atmosphere's thicker than our oceans.
_L9. I buy that. Also, when a star fissions, it may split in two, or it may eject many bodies. So it's possible that many of the planets, moons, asteroids, comets and meteors may have formed in just a few events. Saturn should be the oldest in the Saturn system.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby substance » Sun Jul 06, 2008 12:28 am

Wow, this is pretty interesting. I had no idea about this theory, that Earth came from somewhere as a Saturnian satellite :shock: Too bad, I don`t see a way, this could ever in human time be proved, verified and acknowledged by mainstream science.
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Proving

Unread postby Lloyd » Sun Jul 06, 2008 7:05 pm

- Mainstream science is controlled by big business for the most part. So it's not quite real science. For those who aren't interested in real science, such things as the Saturn theory can't be proven. They can only be proven to those who have a scientific attitude. Mainstream space and plasma science are proving more and more of the Saturn theory every year. The electric universe aspect of the theory seems pretty easy to prove, as evidenced by the TPODs for example. The extra-solar aspect is harder to prove, but, as space exploration continues, it may not be so hard either. Upriver seems to have good evidence that the solar system and or Saturn system formed in the Vela pulsar, also that the sun's surface is molten iron, likewise many stars. Don't underestimate the potential for breakthroughs. The world economy is collapsing and big business may lose its grip on the media etc, which may be an opportunity for a new renaissance.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby StevenO » Mon Jul 07, 2008 7:58 am

Whatever the exact sequence of events, it will follow a 2n^2 progression, just like with cell growth.

Imagine the sun's equator splitting in two to release a toroid (soliton actually), while the sun's poles burst into flames like the Thunderbolts of Thor. Then from the interior of the toroid grows a gas giant that lights up with roughly half the square root size and emission of the sun. This sequence is repeated an inverted to generate the iron planets, asteroid belt, moons and comets (which move like a Lorentz attractor around the sun, like our mini-galaxy currently moves around the milkyway).

Is that why some planets have rings ? Does thatindicate that the moon was ejected from the earth? Would that be related to the dinosaur extinction? Is that why the gravity of the earth was much lower at that time? Did the earth then condense after that event? And before the dinosaurs were we a water planet? We have about 75% water cover on the planet now and at the next solar system event we will roughly go to 50% or to 66% or 87%? I do not have the answer yet....
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Re: Proving

Unread postby Krackonis » Sat Jul 12, 2008 4:41 am

Lloyd wrote:- Mainstream science is controlled by big business for the most part. So it's not quite real science. For those who aren't interested in real science, such things as the Saturn theory can't be proven. They can only be proven to those who have a scientific attitude. Mainstream space and plasma science are proving more and more of the Saturn theory every year. The electric universe aspect of the theory seems pretty easy to prove, as evidenced by the TPODs for example. The extra-solar aspect is harder to prove, but, as space exploration continues, it may not be so hard either. Upriver seems to have good evidence that the solar system and or Saturn system formed in the Vela pulsar, also that the sun's surface is molten iron, likewise many stars. Don't underestimate the potential for breakthroughs. The world economy is collapsing and big business may lose its grip on the media etc, which may be an opportunity for a new renaissance.



Btw Lloyd it's nice to speak with you again. It's been a while since I got a chance to debate with someone who doesn't use dirty tricks to debate me. ;P

I have got to sit down with you and get your to convince me of the Saturn joining our solar system with Earth in tow only 5000 to 10000 years ago. Even with the Eu theory and Mythology I know it just seems absurd. We have to accept other evidence from outside. We know plants grew slow and armoured, then became seasonal. We have Venus Figures and the Caduceus both showing the "Saturnian" Configuration from the side, in glow and arc mode respectively. This evidence cannot just be ignored to make a great story, we have to answer them and then revise our theory.

Perhaps even our mentors (Dave, Rene, Don, Wallace) can be wrong. It's ok to be wrong. I don't mean to insult them in any way, but I will debate facts until a better explanation is forthcoming.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby moses » Sat Jul 12, 2008 5:32 pm

... Saturn joining our solar system with Earth in tow only 5000 to 10000 years ago. Even with the Eu theory and Mythology I know it just seems absurd. Krackonis
Highly unlikely. It is said that it was an interaction between Jupiter
and the Saturn System that initiated the break-up of the Saturn System.
However I see that the ancients saw Jupiter near Saturn after the
break-up. This means to me that either Saturn was always near Jupiter
or not. Now if Saturn was always near Jupiter where was it ? Was it
behind Saturn wrt Earth, and then Jupiter would be seen to oscillate
behind Saturn, but there is no clear story of this.

Rather if Earth was between Jupiter and Saturn then there would have
been two main gods - one above the North pole and one above the
South pole. Thus one under the horizon - god of the underworld. And
there is even evidence of the Earth's axis moving and this god of the
underworld replacing Saturn. So if Earth was between Saturn and Jupiter
then this is evidence of two types of planetary formation. The split of
a body into two pieces - Saturn and Jupiter. Probably born spinning
around each other. At the same time planets may have formed in between
Jupiter and Saturn, but also later the central points of contact between
J & S would have been 'hot' spots where planetary matter could break
away from Jupiter or Saturn producing Earth or Mars, maybe.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby Krackonis » Sun Jul 13, 2008 4:05 pm

moses wrote:... Saturn joining our solar system with Earth in tow only 5000 to 10000 years ago. Even with the Eu theory and Mythology I know it just seems absurd. Krackonis
Highly unlikely. It is said that it was an interaction between Jupiter
and the Saturn System that initiated the break-up of the Saturn System.
However I see that the ancients saw Jupiter near Saturn after the
break-up. This means to me that either Saturn was always near Jupiter
or not. Now if Saturn was always near Jupiter where was it ? Was it
behind Saturn wrt Earth, and then Jupiter would be seen to oscillate
behind Saturn, but there is no clear story of this.

Rather if Earth was between Jupiter and Saturn then there would have
been two main gods - one above the North pole and one above the
South pole. Thus one under the horizon - god of the underworld. And
there is even evidence of the Earth's axis moving and this god of the
underworld replacing Saturn. So if Earth was between Saturn and Jupiter
then this is evidence of two types of planetary formation. The split of
a body into two pieces - Saturn and Jupiter. Probably born spinning
around each other. At the same time planets may have formed in between
Jupiter and Saturn, but also later the central points of contact between
J & S would have been 'hot' spots where planetary matter could break
away from Jupiter or Saturn producing Earth or Mars, maybe.
Mo



Well along with many of the Extrasolar Planets, we are seeing many Gas giants all snug up against their parent stars. Jupiter was speculated to be inside the Earths orbit in ancient times. Perhaps orbiting at .5 AU? Then the wobbles introduced by Saturn's arrival threw the whole system off kilter. So maybe we were at .7 AU and after the 'events of 5000 years ago', we moved up to about 1 Au and Jupiter and Saturn went flying out to 5 and 8 AU.

I am still of the opinion that the rings of the planet were seen at the south and this was the referred to underworld. However, Southern cultures might have seen things differently. In the Mythology section under the Dating thread, I mentioned some evidence to this regard.

As to the Earths parentage, I would likely conclude a Red Dwarf star in glow mode. It fits the fauna evidence suggesting we had slow armoured plants long ago and became seasonal at some time in the past. It also gives a plausible reason for the start of Planetary growth (Current and Voltage through the system).
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby moses » Sun Jul 13, 2008 6:43 pm

Well along with many of the Extrasolar Planets, we are seeing many Gas giants all snug up against their parent stars. Jupiter was speculated to be inside the Earths orbit in ancient times. Perhaps orbiting at .5 AU? Then the wobbles introduced by Saturn's arrival threw the whole system off kilter. So maybe we were at .7 AU and after the 'events of 5000 years ago', we moved up to about 1 Au and Jupiter and Saturn went flying out to 5 and 8 AU.

That seems like a big energy difference in the system. How much easier
is it to have Jupiter and Saturn together in an orbit somewhere between
where Jupiter and Saturn are now. Then they just have to move apart and
not a lot of energy difference is involved.
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Re: 9 Questions about planet birthing thing from a layman

Unread postby Krackonis » Sun Jul 13, 2008 9:12 pm

moses wrote:Well along with many of the Extrasolar Planets, we are seeing many Gas giants all snug up against their parent stars. Jupiter was speculated to be inside the Earths orbit in ancient times. Perhaps orbiting at .5 AU? Then the wobbles introduced by Saturn's arrival threw the whole system off kilter. So maybe we were at .7 AU and after the 'events of 5000 years ago', we moved up to about 1 Au and Jupiter and Saturn went flying out to 5 and 8 AU.

That seems like a big energy difference in the system. How much easier
is it to have Jupiter and Saturn together in an orbit somewhere between
where Jupiter and Saturn are now. Then they just have to move apart and
not a lot of energy difference is involved.
Mo


Mythological references do indicate that the Earth passed Jupiter on the outside. Meaning that it was an inner planet at some point. The run in between Jupiter and Saturn was the 'Clash of the Titan' event "...and then the flood washed over".

Jupiter and Saturn bled off energy and glowed for 1000 years as they receded into the underworld. Mars, Venus, Mercury and the Moon became our younger gods and we made myth's describing them going out to talk to the old gods etc... (Thoth/Mercury for example)
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