Sirius

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Sirius

Unread postby lizzie » Mon May 26, 2008 10:25 am

Sirius
http://www.siriusrising.com/frames.htm

The star of Isis, called Sothis, or Sirius, is the brightest star in our night sky. Modern astronomy has determined that it is only 8 1/2 light-years distant, and traveling directly towards Earth at many thousands of miles per hour. The Ancient Egyptians believed that Sirius had a tremendous effect upon life on our planet.

The system of Sirius contains two known stars, the first binary star system discovered. The larger and brighter of the two, Sirius A, is three times the mass of our sun, and over ten times as bright. Shining with a brilliant blue-white radiance, Sirius A easily overshadows her darker companion star. Sirius B is a "white dwarf" star, invisible to the naked eye and packing the equivalent mass of our sun into an incredibly dense globe only 4 times the diameter of our Earth.

The Sirius system is directly "upstream" of our solar system within the galactic arm of our Milky Way Galaxy. Because of this, we now know that the polarized energies of Sirius do indeed wash over us.

By coming directly towards us, Sirius creates an axis of rotation with Earth relative to the stellar background. Because of this, of all the stars in the sky, only the annual heliacal rising of Sirius exactly matches the length of our solar year, 365.25 days.


Sirius
http://www.crystalinks.com/sirius.html

Duvent, authored an article in the prestigious journal Astronomy and Astrophysics with the title Is Sirius a Triple Star? and suggested (based on observations of motions in the Sirius system) there is a small third star there. They thought the star was probably of a type known as a brown dwarf and only had about .05 the mass of Sirius B.

Curiously, some ancient observations of Sirius describe it as a red star. To the Romans this meant an angry god, and they are known to have sacrificed red dogs to this star. Today, Sirius A is bluish white.

The Dogon describe this 'star' specifically as having a circle of reddish rays around it, and this circle of rays is 'like a spot spreading' but remaining the same size. The Dogon are a West African tribe who have known about, and worshipped, Sirius A and its twin the invisible star Sirius B, for the past 5,000 years. They are also been aware of the planets circle the sun in elliptical orbits, the four moons of Jupiter and the rings of Saturn.

They say that Sirius B is immensely heavy, invisible, very small, yet extremely powerful. Their understanding of the two stars' orbits coincides exactly with modern astronomical findings, yet was arrived at thousands of years before it was scientifically proven. They also claim that a third star Emme Ya - Sorghum Female - exists in the Sirius system. Larger and lighter than Sirius B, this star revolves around Sirius A as well.

The Dogon also believe that approximately 5,000 years ago, Amphibious Gods, called Nommo, came to Earth in three legged space ships from the Sirius Star System. They have described perfectly the DNA pattern made by this elliptical orbit created by the two stars as they rotate make around each other. They believe Sirius to be the axis of the universe, and from it all matter and all souls are produced in a great spiral motion.


Hopi Blue Star Prophecy
http://www.crystalinks.com/hopi2.html

An ancient Hopi Indian prophecy states, "When the Blue Star Kachina makes its appearance in the heavens, the Fifth World will emerge". This will be the Day of Purification. The Hopi name for the star Sirius is Blue Star Kachina. It will come when the Saquasohuh (Blue Star) Kachina dances in the plaza and removes his mask.

The end of all Hopi ceremonialism will come when a "Kachina" removes his mask during a dance in the plaza before uninitiated children. For a while there will be no more ceremonies, no more faith. Then Oraibi will be rejuvenated with its faith and ceremonies, marking the start of a new cycle of Hopi life.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby shrunkensimon » Mon May 26, 2008 10:41 am

There is much confusion surrounding the Dogon tribe legends, especially thanks to David Icke who has tried to use their legends as evidence for his reptilian rubbish..

It is clear to me anyway, that the Dogon tribe legends are not their own, but infact shards of knowledge that shares a common route with lots of other legends etc, all stemming back into Ancient Egypt. The "aliens from outer space" theme, and the serpent/dragon all tie back into the planetary spectacle seen in the skys back then, which is exactly what Dave Talbotts area of research is currently touching upon! The symbology has just been lost over time. Unforunately, people take the things at literal face value (so a serpent = reptilian for example), when this is NOT what was intended.. you need to read between the lines 8-)
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby bboyer » Mon May 26, 2008 11:43 am

lizzie wrote:
Sirius
http://www.crystalinks.com/sirius.html

<snip>
The Dogon describe this 'star' specifically as having a circle of reddish rays around it, and this circle of rays is 'like a spot spreading' but remaining the same size. The Dogon are a West African tribe who have known about, and worshipped, Sirius A and its twin the invisible star Sirius B, for the past 5,000 years. They are also been aware of the planets circle the sun in elliptical orbits, the four moons of Jupiter and the rings of Saturn.

They say that Sirius B is immensely heavy, invisible, very small, yet extremely powerful. Their understanding of the two stars' orbits coincides exactly with modern astronomical findings, yet was arrived at thousands of years before it was scientifically proven. They also claim that a third star Emme Ya - Sorghum Female - exists in the Sirius system. Larger and lighter than Sirius B, this star revolves around Sirius A as well.

The Dogon also believe that approximately 5,000 years ago, Amphibious Gods, called Nommo, came to Earth in three legged space ships from the Sirius Star System.They have described perfectly the DNA pattern made by this elliptical orbit created by the two stars as they rotate make around each other. They believe Sirius to be the axis of the universe, and from it all matter and all souls are produced in a great spiral motion.


Umm ... I think I'll go with the version, below.

Dogon shame

Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? New evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation.

Philip Coppens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The story that the Dogon, a tribe in Mali, West Africa, had possessed in their antiquity extraordinary knowledge of the star system Sirius achieved worldwide publicity in 1976 through Robert Temple’s extraordinary book The Sirius Mystery. It was compellingly argued and became one of the most influential books of the 1970s ‘ancient astronauts’ genre.

Sirius is the brightest star in the sky, a star that became the marker of an important ancient Egyptian calendar, and a star that is said to be at the centre of beliefs held by the Freemasons. According to some cultures, Sirius is where the forefathers of the human race might have originated.

Temple claimed that the Dogon knew about two smaller stars that are closely related to Sirius – Sirius B and Sirius C. The mystery was how they had obtained this knowledge, as these companion stars cannot be seen by the unaided eye. Temple’s solution referred to legends of a mythical creature, the god Oannes, who might have been an extraterrestrial, described as descending to Earth from the stars to bring civilising wisdom to the Dogon forefathers.

In 1998, Temple republished the book with the subtitle “new scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago.” The book’s reputation was first dented in 1999, when Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published The Stargate Conspiracy, in which they allege that Temple’s thinking had been heavily influenced by his mentor, Arthur M. Young. Young was a fervent believer in “the Council of Nine,” a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. ‘The Nine’ became part of the UFO and New Age mythology and many claim to be in contact with them. ‘The Nine’ also claim to be extraterrestrial beings from the star Sirius. In 1952, Young was one of nine people present during the “first contact” with the ‘Council’, an event initiated by Andrija Puharich, the man who brought Israeli spoonbender Uri Geller to America. [Puharich, a fellow of the SRI (Stanford Research Institute, a company with well-documented ties to intel ops - arc-us]

In 1965, Arthur Young gave Robert Temple a French article on the secret star lore of the Dogon, an article written by two French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. In 1966, Temple – then aged 21 – became Secretary of Young’s Foundation for the Study of Consciousness. In 1967, Temple began work on the thesis that became The Sirius Mystery. As Picknett and Prince have been able to show, Temple’s arguments are often based on erroneous readings of encyclopædia entries and misrepresentations of ancient Egyptian mythology. They conclude that Temple was very keen to please his mentor, who believed in extraterrestrial beings from Sirius.

Though Temple’s work was challenged, at its core lay the original anthropological study of the Dogon by Griaule and Dieterlen, who describe the secret knowledge of Sirius B and Sirius C in their own book The Pale Fox. But now, in another recent publication – Ancient Mysteries by Peter James and Nick Thorpe – this “mystery” is also uncloaked as a hoax or a lie perpetrated by Griaule.

To recapitulate: Griaule claimed to have been initiated into the secret mysteries of the male Dogon, during which they allegedly told him of Sirius (sigu tolo in their language) and its two invisible companions. In the 1930s, when their research was carried out, Sirius B was known to have existed, even though it was only photographed in 1970. It was very unlikely that the Dogon had learned of this star’s existence from Westerners prior to the visit by Griaule and Dieterlen.

Griaule and Dieterlen first described their findings in an article published in French in 1950, but they included no comment about how extraordinary the Dogon knowledge of the ‘invisible companions’ was. This step was taken by others, particularly Temple, in the Sixties and Seventies. To quote Ancient Mysteries: “While Temple, following Griaule, assumes that to polo is the invisible star Sirius B, the Dogon themselves, as reported by Griaule, say something quite different.” To quote the Dogon: “When Digitaria (to polo) is close to Sirius, the latter becomes brighter; when it is at its most distant from Sirius, Digitaria gives off a twinkling effect, suggesting several stars to the observer.” This description of a very visible effect causes James and Thorpe to wonder – as anyone reading this should do – whether to polo is therefore an ordinary star near Sirius, not an invisible companion, as Griaule and Temple suggest.

The biggest challenge to Griaule, however, came from anthropologist Walter Van Beek. He points out that Griaule and Dieterlen stand alone in their claims about the Dogon secret knowledge. No other anthropologist supports their opinions. In 1991, Van Beek led a team of anthropologists to Mali and declared that they found absolutely no trace of the detailed Sirius lore reported by the French anthropologists. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say “this is very worrying.” Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. Van Beek actually spoke to some of Griaule’s original informants; he noted that “though they do speak about sigu tolo [interpreted by Griaule as their name for Sirius itself], they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some, it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. All agree, however, that they learned about the star from Griaule.” Van Beek states that this creates a major problem for Griaule’s claims.

Although he was an anthropologist, Griaule was keenly interested in astronomy and had studied it in Paris. As James and Thorpe point out, he took star maps along with him on his field trips as a way of prompting his informants to divulge their knowledge of the stars. Griaule himself was aware of the discovery of Sirius B and in the 1920s – before he visited the Dogon – there were also unconfirmed sightings of Sirius C.

The Dogon were well aware of the brightest star in the sky but, as Van Beek learned, they do not call it sigu tolo, as Griaule claimed, but dana tolo. To quote James and Thorpe: “As for Sirius B, only Griaule’s informants had ever heard of it.” Was Griaule told by his informants what he wanted to believe; did he misinterpret the Dogon responses to his questions? Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own.

With this, the Dogon mystery comes crashing down. For more then 20 years, The Sirius Mystery has influenced speculation about the possibility that our ‘forefathers’ came from the stars. In his 1998 revised edition, Temple was quick to point out the new discussions in scientific circles about the possible existence of Sirius C, which seemed to make Griaule’s claims even more spectacular and accurate. But it is apparent that Temple was not aware of Van Beek’s devastating research.

From the findings of Van Beek and the authors of Ancient Mysteries, it is clear that Griaule himself was responsible for the creation of a modern myth; one which, in retrospect, has created such an industry and near-religious belief that the scope and intensity of it can hardly be fathomed. Nigel Appleby – whose book Hall of the Gods was withdrawn from publication – has admitted to being tremendously influenced by Temple’s Sirius Mystery. He has written of Temple’s belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. Appleby also believes there exists a modern arrogance that cannot countenance the idea that ancient civilisations might have been scientifically superior.

But it seems that Griaule, a scientist, wanted to attribute to earlier civilisations more knowledge than they actually possessed. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from “the Dark Sirius Companion.”

http://www.philipcoppens.com/dogonshame.html Dogon shame

There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. — Maitri Upanishad
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby junglelord » Mon May 26, 2008 12:30 pm

I am of the belief that we have visitors and have had visitation. I got no proof, but I believe there is lots of evidence. I think that an electric universe of no beginning would have even more of a chance to have visitation to our planet, then a big bang gravity model one. I believe that at some level of national security the two are related. I have no proof, but I believe that to be the truth. Since the forum is not about that connection, I thank the forum for allowing me to say that.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby shrunkensimon » Mon May 26, 2008 12:43 pm

Lizzie, following web articles on a whim shows absolutely no integrity on your behalf. Do some proper research about the Dogon tribe instead of just quoting inane passages to back up your baseless assertion of "aliens from outer space". As i stated, the "aliens from outer space" is a symbolic referrence to the planets, not to literal ET's coming down to Earth.

There is little to no real evidence that ET's have ever mingled with humans, despite the claims of all the conspiracy theorists. It is a deliberate attempt to manufacture misdirect people away from another strand of information entirely, one which Dave Talbott is doing well to piece together i mite add.

Yes there is evidence civilization was more advanced than it was now, but that does not automatically equate into knowledge from ET visitors. If you actually took a step back for a moment, you would see that the whole ET thing is nothing more than a business. I have no doubts other life is out there, but you're missing the point really, because statistically speaking its a dead cert anyway!

The Dogon story is a symbolic one, not a literal one. Don't take it at face value. Thats what Christians do with the Bible!!!
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby shrunkensimon » Mon May 26, 2008 12:50 pm

http://www.crystalinks.com/dogon.html

Image

Now where have i seen that stick man figure before.. :roll:

Their knowledge clearly comes from Ancient Egypt. Their story/legends are symbolic, not literal. How can you not see that? Its beyond obvious!
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby davesmith_au » Mon May 26, 2008 6:41 pm

Cardona on Temple:

Dwardu Cardona - God Star p.173-4 wrote:... While Griaule and Dieterlen did not, themselves, come to a definite conclusion concerning how the Dogon camp upon their astronomical lore, Robert Temple, who built an edifice on their work, was of the opinion that the knowledge was given to the Dogon's ancestors by visiting extraterrestrials. Believe it if you will. (It has always fascinated me that such extraterrestrials would have bestowed such astronomical knowledge to the ancestors of the Dogon, knowledge which was of no practical use to them, while giving them nothing that might have alleviated the precarious living of their Stone Age primitiveness.) [Bold emphasis added - DS]


I agree.

If you want an in-depth study and explanation of many of the ancient beliefs, I recommend God Star and also Flare Star. Lizzie would also do well to take a good look at the information Dave Talbott is covering in the "Origins of Myth" forum.

Cheers, Dave Smith.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby shrunkensimon » Tue May 27, 2008 6:15 am

Exactly David!

The situation does not make any logical sense, and the "ET's from space" angle sounds more like a scenario of a human mind, rather than an actually plausible instance in this case (note, im not saying its not possible thats what happened, but there is evidence to suggest another explanation, one which fits far better IMHO).

I know this is the EU forum, and Dave Talbott posts here, but i don't think one should underestimate his line of research regarding the origins of myth. It appears to me anyway, that not only is he on the right track, but that he (and the EU team) have stumbled upon a very important piece of the puzzle. One can only imagine what other things it mite unlock if everyone was made aware of EU/Plasma Cosmological theories!
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby lizzie » Tue May 27, 2008 8:03 am

I see what you're trying to put forward btw with the whole 2012 thing, and I agree with some of it to an extent, but you must realize that ALOT of it is blown out of proportion by the "New Age" crowd. I don't want to get all conspiracy on you, but ALL movements are infiltrated/controlled by the "powers that be", and the New Age movement is no exception.


I am well aware of that. Generally I see all "reality" as "staged". But there is usually a reason for that. :D

Is there any "legitimate scientific knowledge" to validate any of these claims? Why did the ancients map the precession of the equinoxes? Would Velikovsky have summarily dismissed the idea of a “cosmic grand cycle” as a “conspiracy theory?” Or would he have done any research first? :?

John Hutchinson (the “Hutchison effect”) claims he talks to ETs. Do we dismiss his ‘anti-gravity’ experiments are fraudulent? The astrophysicist Hal Puthoff worked as a remote viewer. Do we then assume that all his scientific research is "tainted" because he worked with “physic spies?” David Bohm and Nikola Tesla were "into Eastern mysticism." Shall we cross them off our lists as well? :o

I have no intention of starting an “Armageddon thread” just for the sake of compiling the latest conspiracy theories unless I think there is some “legitimate” scientific reason to validate such claims.;)

I post such articles under the “New Insights and Mad Ideas” category for a reason. I don’t generally participate in the “hard science” threads because I have no scientific background. I go there to learn from people who are more knowledgable than I. Likewise, I don’t post anything to Talbott’s articles on myth for the same reason. I have not spent years of scholarly research in this field. I go there to learn as well.:roll:

Perhaps I should write a caveat before I post to indicate that I don’t necessarily espouse the opinions of the sources I quote; or that I believe these opinions reflect those espoused by the “general public.” However, if I do this, then I show my particular “prejudice.” 8-)

Often I post articles to “solicit information” in an informal way. Perhaps I should have started my thread with the following: “This is information I found in the public domain about the star “Sirius.” Why do you think this star was worshiped by the ancients?” :?

In this way, some of us can have an informal discussion without causing any distraction from the more scholarly pursuits of Talbott.:ugeek:

If I am “misusing” the forum by doing so, then please let me know.:oops:

I have read “God Star.” I thought it was excellent. As soon as funds permit I plan to purchase “Flare Star.”
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue May 27, 2008 8:59 am

davesmith_au wrote:Cardona on Temple:

Dwardu Cardona - God Star p.173-4 wrote:... While Griaule and Dieterlen did not, themselves, come to a definite conclusion concerning how the Dogon camp upon their astronomical lore, Robert Temple, who built an edifice on their work, was of the opinion that the knowledge was given to the Dogon's ancestors by visiting extraterrestrials. Believe it if you will. (It has always fascinated me that such extraterrestrials would have bestowed such astronomical knowledge to the ancestors of the Dogon, knowledge which was of no practical use to them, while giving them nothing that might have alleviated the precarious living of their Stone Age primitiveness.) [Bold emphasis added - DS]


I agree.

If you want an in-depth study and explanation of many of the ancient beliefs, I recommend God Star and also Flare Star. Lizzie would also do well to take a good look at the information Dave Talbott is covering in the "Origins of Myth" forum.

Cheers, Dave Smith.


Dave,
From your Cardona quote it seems that he is not denying that the Dogon have the 'astronomical lore' only that it came from ETs. Cardona, in the highlighted section, makes a series of assumptions based on his own prejudice:
that this knowledge would be 'of no practical use' - I would argue that it helps the Dogon understand their place in the Universe;
alleviation of their 'precarious living' - do the Dogon who have been around for millenia regard their living as precarious? ;
'Stone Age primitiveness' - So they are not modern, materialistic, consumer-capitalists.

If Lizzie wants to do an in-depth study of ancient beliefs I would recommend that she reads the views of the ancients rather than any modern writer. Similarly, one should read Griaule's account of the Dogon rather than somebody's account of Griaule's account.

While we are in Mali, I would recommend the music of Tinariwen - superb stuff.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby StefanR » Tue May 27, 2008 12:21 pm

Lizzie wrote:Perhaps I should write a caveat before I post to indicate that I don’t necessarily espouse the opinions of the sources I quote; or that I believe these opinions reflect those espoused by the “general public.” However, if I do this, then I show my particular “prejudice.” 8-)

Often I post articles to “solicit information” in an informal way. Perhaps I should have started my thread with the following: “This is information I found in the public domain about the star “Sirius.” Why do you think this star was worshiped by the ancients?”


Provocation of an explanation done by refutation can be valuable too. I personaly think it's not a problem. 8-) Walking on the edge of the knive :lol:


arc-us wrote:Umm ... I think I'll go with the version, below.


I saw that as documentary on tv. Especially this bit :

In 1998, Temple republished the book with the subtitle “new scientific evidence of alien contact 5,000 years ago.” The book’s reputation was first dented in 1999, when Lynn Picknett and Clive Prince published The Stargate Conspiracy, in which they allege that Temple’s thinking had been heavily influenced by his mentor, Arthur M. Young. Young was a fervent believer in “the Council of Nine,” a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. ‘The Nine’ became part of the UFO and New Age mythology and many claim to be in contact with them. ‘The Nine’ also claim to be extraterrestrial beings from the star Sirius. In 1952, Young was one of nine people present during the “first contact” with the ‘Council’, an event initiated by Andrija Puharich, the man who brought Israeli spoonbender Uri Geller to America. [Puharich, a fellow of the SRI (Stanford Research Institute, a company with well-documented ties to intel ops - arc-us]


was a quite revealing bit. The whole story made a lot a sense then.

greycloud wrote:While we are in Mali, I would recommend the music of Tinariwen - superb stuff.


I fully agree on that one. 8-)
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby lizzie » Tue May 27, 2008 3:26 pm

[Puharich, a fellow of the SRI (Stanford Research Institute, a company with well-documented ties to intel ops - arc-us]


Hal Puthoff also worked at the SRI with remote viewer Ingo Swann. I have to wonder what spooks and astrophysicists are doing spending time with psychics; but then again I might be creating my very own "conspiracy theories" by indulging in such speculations.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby bboyer » Tue May 27, 2008 11:40 pm

lizzie wrote:
[Puharich, a fellow of the SRI (Stanford Research Institute, a company with well-documented ties to intel ops - arc-us]


Hal Puthoff also worked at the SRI with remote viewer Ingo Swann. I have to wonder what spooks and astrophysicists are doing spending time with psychics; but then again I might be creating my very own "conspiracy theories" by indulging in such speculations.


:lol: No further comment necessary from me on that one, other than I think we're on the same page.
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby webolife » Thu May 29, 2008 2:32 pm

Being an amateur astronomer, I'm interested in Sirius just because. I am also of a mind that the plasma flux from Sirius (or related to Sirius, probably Sirius B) is a least partially repsonsible for the field properties that allow terrestrial planets like earth to exist around a medium yellow star... I realize folks here attribute some of those field properties to Saturn, but I need way more hard science before I am turned over to that hypothesis. On a totally side note here, the ancients are more intelligent than evolutionary dogma would credit them.
This is not due to alien influence in my view but to being less encumbered with the pursuit of personal prosperity. Not that the ancients were more "moral" than us today, clearly they were not; but selfish gain does have a way of siriusly :lol: narrowing our perspective on the world around us. Hence the rule of the "scientific consensus" over academic openness to EU, intelligent design, and alternative views in general. I'm all for peer review. But the word "peer" also means: L :geek: :geek: K M :geek: RE CL :geek: SELY!
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Re: Sirius

Unread postby lizzie » Sat May 31, 2008 12:49 pm

webolife said

I am also of a mind that the plasma flux from Sirius (or related to Sirius, probably Sirius B) is a least partially repsonsible for the field properties that allow terrestrial planets like earth to exist around a medium yellow star


Go to this thread

http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpB ... =226#p2624
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