What would EU sci-fi be like?

[ElecGeekMom]

Has anyone written any EU-oriented sci-fi? You know, stories that don't blame gravity and black holes and slow evolution for everything?

Would it be possible for life to survive on the surface of a star, since it's not as hot as the corona? I know, we're still talking about extremes, but even so...

Any budding Asimovs or Bradburys or Roddenberrys out there?

[nick c]

hi EGM,
The late James P. Hogan was a sci-fi novelist and EU supporter/catastrophist.

http://www.jamesphogan.com/biblio/novels.php

I cannot give you any book reviews as I have not read any of his books, although they are on my "list."

[Sparky]

I don't go out of my way to read SciFi, as i get enough of that from standard cosmology and in some of the forums here.

At Amazon

This review is from: Cradle of Saturn (Mass Market Paperback)
This book really did make me think on a few of the things that "could" actually happen in the universe. It also gives a good presentation of what Immanuel Velikovsky tried to tell about in his book, "worlds in collision". Hogan goes as far as to show how stagnate and closed-minded our scientific community has become. Hogan's characters, while relativly flat to begin with, begome very developed towards the end. This is a good book for the sci-fi theorist.

and an unbiased and authoritative alternative opinion:

This review is from: Cradle Of Saturn (Hardcover)
James P. Hogan has a mixed record in the world of "hard" science fiction, with some good books and some not so good. His latest novel, "Cradle of Saturn" (COS), goes well beyond the "not so good" into the "terrible". Ideally, good science fiction results from the combination of good fiction plus at least reasonably plausible science. Unfortunately COS fails on both counts. The writing is turgid and uninteresting, and the "science" is pathetically bad.

In recent years Hogan seems to have fixated on the idea that a conspiracy of scientists is attempting to conceal the Truth about a variety of topics, including AIDS, the stratospheric ozone layer, dinosaurs, evolution, and so forth. Most of the reasoning he uses to support these claims is neither original nor credible. As someone who has some familiarity with atmospheric chemistry, I can say with confidence that most of his allegations about stratospheric ozone are worthless.

Yet in COS, Hogan carries his anti-scientific revisionist nonsense far, far beyond most of his earlier writings. The central theme of this book based on the work of Velikovsky, a crackpot whose ideas about the history and dynamics of the solar system were unsupportable when first published in the early 1950s, and have only become more so in the past half century. To justify his use of Velikovskian ideas, Hogan has to bend, break, or ignore most of modern geology and physics.

Some might argue that the science doesn't matter, as long as the literary side of COS is well done. Unfortunately, it's not. Hogan's characters are cardboard cutouts, with no depth or personality. His prose is uninteresting, and the story frequently is pushed aside to make room for thinly-veiled rants relating to Hogan's bizarre anti-scientific obsessions. It IS possible for a persevering reader to make his or her way through to the end of this book, but the question is -- why would one want to? There are far more worthwhile books out there than could possibly be read in anyone's lifetime; plowing your way through "Cradle of Saturn" will only prevent you from reading something else that would probably be infinitely better.

If you really want to read something interesting by Hogan, I'd recommend "Inherit the Stars" and "The Proteus Operation" over "Cradle of Saturn" any day.

[allynh]

Think classic Flash Gordon, with the planet Mongo flying through space terrorizing the galaxy. Ming the Merciless captured worlds along the way and had them orbiting Mongo(Saturn Myth. HA!). Or think the Lensman series, also moving whole planets as weapons to smash your enemy.

There is the Mundane Manifesto, a movement in SF. They are trying to stick with real physics, not warp drive, etc...

Mundane science fiction
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mundane_science_fiction

The problem is, they are basing their Mundane reality on consensus Physics, Big Bang, Black Holes, etc..., and none of that is real.

A true Mundane Manifesto should be based on:

- No Big Bang

- No Black Holes

- No Neutron Stars

- The Sun is not an exploding hydrogen bomb.

And we do not know:

- If the speed of light is a limit for physical objects.

- How big the the Physical Universe is

- How old the Universe is

- How old the Solar System or Earth is

- The actual Chronology of the past 10k years, much less the past million? billion?

For the past fifty years, Science Fiction has been held captive by the Sneering Nerds, the Space Cadets, who are absolute believers in consensus Physics. It is their religion. HA!

The stories written before WWII, the Weird Tales, had more power and imagination than SF today. Stories written in the sixties, before man landed on the Moon, were closer to actual reality. After man landed on the Moon, the Space Cadets took over, and consensus reality became the rule.

- Before 1970, science books would be published to state or argue with existing paradigms.

- After 1970, science books became supporters of consensus reality only.

If you are looking for EU based SF, now is the time for people to start writing it. It is only now with indie publishing, e-book/POD, that writers can write whatever they want. They are no longer limited by what publishers think that the Space Cadets will accept as SF.

The Thunderbolts threads, especially NIaMI, are goldmines to pull story ideas from.

- Aether

- Growing Earth Theory

- Transmutation

- Rupert Sheldrake's Morphic Fields

- Electric Gravity

- Saturn Myth

- Intrinsic Redshift

- Quasars as galatic seeds

All of the above is the Story about the Aether and the ways that, for one brief moment, a droplet of spaceTime pops above the Infinite Chaos Sea, and dances along until it dissolves back into infinity.

Yves Couder . Explains Wave/Particle Duality via Silicon Droplets [Through the Wormhole]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9yWv5dqSKk

The Silicon Droplets is the best visual I've found to show how Aether scales up.

- Each droplet is a finite Universe of spaceTime.

- Each droplet is also a particle.

And in between, you have a droplet that is a planet, a sun, a galaxy, all dancing along the Aether.

This is all so fun. HA!

[Lloyd]

* Brant said, although the surface of stars may be cool enough for life, the electric fields etc would decimate it, if I remember right. It's also possible that the interior of planets is cool enough for life, although there are hot spots. That might be a better bet than stellar surfaces. Maybe spacecraft will ultimately be designed that can land on the Sun on its solid iron surface (according to Brant) at least away from the magnetic loops and take humans there, but robots are more likely.
* Douglas Adams' The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy made a good sci-fi start by making fun of conventional science.

[ElecGeekMom]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

Keep them coming!

I don't like to get all bogged down in the math. I can really get into stories that work through how non-standard (EU) assumptions can affect our everyday life, though.

I don't understand how a strong solar flare can cause a wristwatch to automatically reset (I saw it happen many times), but we can still depend on so many of our wireless devices!

And why does my new flatscreen computer monitor between me and my TV prevent my remote from working after it's been on for a while?

My kid wrote a short story several years ago about some youths who used hoverboards to get around. What impact would a hoverboard have on other EM devices nearby?

Why do towns with a large collection of broadcast stations (radio and TV) tend to have bigger hail than other towns?

Has the shift from analog to digital broadcasting had any impact on climate? the widespread usage of cell phones? the presence of all-electric cars?

Just curious....

[Influx]

How about a contest?

[ElecGeekMom]

That's a great idea!

[ddaveo]

Sometimes I've entertained the thought of "what if the Earth really is like a gigantic geode [ie. has a hollow crystalline interior]?" Imagine if there was an entire alien biosphere of creatures and life ... on the interior surface of our planet? Millions of bizarre species that live a few dozen miles below us and yet we have no conception of their existence ... and maybe intelligent life too ... civilisations could have risen and fallen, myths have been born and forgotten, loves have been gained and lost, wars have been fought ... even now the "alien" civilisations on the inner surface of our planet could be locked in a global power struggle that threatens their very existence ... and here we are on the outer surface, all going to work and thinking about the beach and meeting friends and watching movies just a few miles away, completely unaware.

What would it be like to live in a world that's completely enclosed by rock? They would have no concept of the larger universe ... stars and planets and galaxies. The universe would end at their feet. Imagine one of these creatures coming to the surface for the first time?

That's the kind of science fiction I'd love to read

[allynh]

Since I stumbled across all this EU stuff I have been seeing it in films and books.

ddaveo - There is a Role Playing Game called _Hollow Earth Expedition_ that plays with that idea.

Hollow Earth Expedition
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth_Expedition

The classic Edisonade, Tom Swift, style story where the inventor builds aether ships that sail the skies and to other planets.

Edisonade
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edisonade

Edison's Conquest of Mars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison%27s ... st_of_Mars

Think any of the Indiana Jones movies, especially the latest. Blatant EU.

Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jo ... stal_Skull

The movie _Vibes_ from the 80s leaps off the screen as EU.

Vibes (film)

ElecGeekMom - Think of the fact that a cloud is vast amount of water floating in the sky because the water molecules have inverted their direction of gravity.

If water can do that, think of cites floating in the air, sky boats transporting people.

Think of the fact that earthquakes are lightning in the crust.

Now look at the classic 1960s movies where the scientists on the island create weather machines, or earthquake machines.

Our Man Flint
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Man_Flint

The super storm in the movie _The Day After Tomorrow_ is EU.

The Day After Tomorrow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_After_Tomorrow

The TV series _Threshold_ where aliens try to colonize Earth by using sound to alter the morphogenetics of the DNA of humans, making us the aliens.

Threshold (TV series)

The movie _Skyline_ is pure EU. The creators of the film had no clue what they were doing, but the movie screams EU, as does _Battle: Los Angeles_. Interesting note. The guys who did _Skyline_ were the same people who did the special effects for _Battle: Los Angeles_.

Skyline (film)

Battle: Los Angeles

Both _Tomb Raider_ movies, especially number two are blatant EU.

Lara Croft: Tomb Raider

Lara Croft Tomb Raider: The Cradle of Life
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lara_Croft ... le_of_Life

_The Cradle of Life_ echoes the story in the movie _Epoch_, where life on the Earth is planted here. The way the entity controls the Earth is EU.

Epoch (film)

The Rambaldi devices in the TV series _Alias_ are pure EU.

Alias (TV series)

The island in the TV series _Lost_, and all of the events, are only possible with EU.

Lost (TV series)

The TV series _Fringe_ is pure EU. It is scary watching the stuff put out by J.J. Abrams, he has tapped directly into the EU stream. HA!

Fringe (TV series)

Look at the movie _Knowing_.

Knowing (film)

That is a CME that wipes all life on Earth. Look at the end of the movie with the kids on the new planet, the sky is filled with other planets. That is blatant Saturn Myth.

Knowing (the ending of old and beginning of something new)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO_W7cMWBMg

Once I saw the end it was clear that the aliens were triggering the CMEs to sterilize planets. They would seed planets with people. Those people would exist as Bicameral Julian Jaynes style group minds. The planetary system would occasionally go through catastrophic collapse like what happened to us, then the people were no longer one mind. i.e. Tower of Babble event, making us individual humans rather than a group mind spread across many bodies.

Notice that the aliens only took those kids that could hear each other. They were only saving the "healthy" kids and sterilizing the cancer cells, i.e. us, individual humans. HA!

[redeye]

Has anyone written any EU-oriented sci-fi?

Check out Ken Mclead

The Execution Channel

The Restoration Game

Not specifically EU related although The Execution Channel doe make reference to Alven's Plasma Cosmology, and Mcleod seems fairly dismissive of Big Bang cosmology, Dark matter/energy and other fanciful notions entertained by the mainstream.

His books are great too so check them out.

Look out for Ian MacDonald too.

Cheers!

[ElecGeekMom]

This is a great compilation!

Re J. J. Abrams' "Star Trek" - I thoroughly enjoyed that movie and the way they were able to capture the original characters' mannerisms, but the black hole thingie annoyed me. It seemed like a cop out. I probably annoyed my teenager by talking so much (during the movie) about how the characters were so well done and reminiscent of the characters in the original series, while still serving as a prequel of the original series! The special effects were great in the movie, while the special effects in the original series were its weak point IMHO. Of course, that was back in the 60s! Did anyone have great special effects in the 60s? I don't think so.

I read where he's planning to put out a sequel in 2013.

"Cloverfield" was pretty dang scary. My teenager made me buy that DVD, as well as the new "War of the Worlds" with Tom Cruise, too.

Speaking of cheesy special effects, one time when I was in college, I dropped by a Buck Rogers movie-thon they were holding in the basement of my dorm. I had not been watching the screen for very long when I distinctly saw a full frame of POPCORN. When I asked my friends if they saw the popcorn, they said they hadn't.

[redeye]

You should check out "Source Code" which is a pretty good tilt at a Phillip K Dick book. The directors earlier debut "Moon" got good reviews (but I hated it).

"Melancholia" is an interesting film, not really sci fi but worth watching for the beautiful opening five minutes alone.

"Avatar" had some interesting concepts, actually the film had no concepts as it's dumb as nuts but it takes place on a moon that is connected to a gas giant similar to the Jupiter - IO plasma bridge.

Cheers!

[ElecGeekMom]

Thanks!

I deliberately stayed away from Avatar (despite the excellent CGI) because I felt it would be so full of greenie propaganda that I'd be puking before I could reach a trash can.

Oops...I guess I tipped my hand about how I feel about AGW, huh?

[allynh]

ElecGeekMom, Watch _Avatar_, ignore the tree hugger stuff, and you will see pure EU. The floating mountains, all life connected in a vast mind, etc... The world as satellite around a gas giant is pure Saturn Myth. HA!