Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:55 am

Sparky wrote:
What face? :roll:

What pyramid? :roll:

Where are the five sides? :roll:

I can see faces on Mt. Rushmore.

I can recognize pyramids at giza.

An overhead view of the Pentagon looks to be 5 sided! 8-)

Why can't I see faces and these other things on mars, the moon, and on potato chips?... :roll:



Still the best I can do for ya:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophthalmology
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:54 am

ANY conclusion concerning "natural appearing formations", other than "natural", made with little or distorted evidence, is a Hasty Conclusion Fallacy.

I don't see faces on the moon or mars because they are not there. And yes, i need corrective lenses to focus on objects. That is irrelevant. 'What is relevant is the distortion a mindset can introduce into what is perceived.

What you are "seeing" is
an illusion.
-characterized by visually perceived images that differ from objective reality. The information gathered by the eye is processed in the brain to give a perception that does not tally with a physical measurement of the stimulus source. There are three main types: literal optical illusions that create images that are different from the objects that make them, physiological ones that are the effects on the eyes and brain of excessive stimulation of a specific type (brightness, colour, size, position, tilt, movement), and cognitive illusions, the result of unconscious inferences.

-Gestalt theory can be used to explain the illusory contours in the Kanizsa Triangle. A floating white triangle, which does not exist, is seen. The brain has a need to see familiar simple objects and has a tendency to create a "whole" image from individual elements.[3] Gestalt means "form" or "shape" in German. However, another explanation of the Kanizsa Triangle is based in evolutionary psychology and the fact that in order to survive it was important to see form and edges. The use of perceptual organization to create meaning out of stimuli is the principle behind other well-known illusions including impossible objects. Our brain makes sense of shapes and symbols putting them together like a jigsaw puzzle, formulating that which isn't there to that which is believable.


"-to that which is believable", or what one wants to believe.

Imagination is not evidence. Programing the mind to "see" evidence that just isn't there is not science, nor even rational.
Most of your conclusions, based on "evidence" , is imagination, built upon illusion... Not so easily corrected...My eyes can be focused with some $1 glasses.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:10 pm

Sparky wrote:
I don't see faces on the moon or mars because they are not there. ....



Congratulations, you got half of that right...

http://www.foreyes.com/
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:32 pm

Again the more recent and higher resolution image of the face megalith:

Image


I notice several things, which I have indicated in this marked-up image:

Image


First is that there is only one possible way to build such a thing, i.e. to pile up stones into the rough shape you need, large stones on the bottom and then progressively smaller ones, and then put some sort of a hard facing over the entire thing. You can see how this has been done in the image. On the left side from which wind and sand come, the facing is almost entirely eroded and, even where the underlying stone shows, everything has been worn smooth. On the right side, we can see that part of the facing remains, much of it having fallen off to the side in heaps. We can see the cutout in the facing for the left eye which I have noted, and we can see where the facing fell and broke away from the nose, which is what you would expect. We can also see the rough stones of the nose area, which have not all been worn smooth.

Second is that the megalith is heavily damaged, and has suffered more than one kind of damage. My guess is that the entire rock plate on which the megalith sits was picked up and slammed down, and that the megalith was deformed in the process. You can see the places where the hard casement has been pulled apart on the right side. The megalith has been compressed along the axis from lower left to upper right which I have marked with the blue line, and stretched along the other axis from lower right to upper left. The angle A between the line of the headdress on the left side and the line along the top is thus less than the original 90 degrees. The line through the center of the face has been deformed from the original straight line to the curved line which I have drawn. The basic shape of the mouth is still there, albeit moved to the left as I have noted. You can see where the outer casing has broken away from part of the outline of the mouth on the right.

You can see the ridge along the eyebrows as I have noted, you can see the indentation for the right eye and the outline of the left eye cut into the facing and still in reasonably good shape. You can see the rise for the nose as well as the area where the casing broke away from the nose on the right, and part of the remains of nostrils, and you can see the basic lines of the mouth.

Unless of course you have major kinds of eyesight problems...

The other thing you see is the line along the top of the headdress (red) and the Bezier curve along the left edge of the headdress and, again, Mother Nature does not do straight lines of Bezier curves on that sort of a scale.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby lizzie » Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:22 pm

Sparky said: What you are "seeing" is an illusion.


"Having eyes, see ye not and having ears, hear ye not and do ye not remember?" (Mark 8:18)


They look like ruins to me, too.

Mars Ruins
http://marsruins.com/
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Lloyd » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:09 am

Shocking Findings Led to Suppression of Real Physics and Diversion to Relativity
* Ted, Roger Anderton, with NPA, did a video conference last year, apparently claiming that Tesla discovered ET communication in the early 20th century, which shocked conventional physicists, who then diverted physics into Einsteinian Relativity, in order to suppress such findings. Roger is speaking this coming Saturday, as explained at http://www.thunderbolts.info/forum/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4284&p=59818#p59818 on my NPA Conference thread.
* In that post I included the abstract of the paper from last year, which I'll quote here as well.
Extraterrestrial Communication Through Radio Signals Based on Newtonian Physics (2010)
Abstract:

Before the supposed Einstein revolution in physics, mainstream physics community was progressing at a fantastic rate making new discoveries within the context of the Newtonian paradigm. It is my proposal that certain people got scared with some of those discoveries and went into psychological shock of denial. They suddenly were faced with the discovery equivalent to finding out that the monster under the bed which they dismissed as childhood fantasy was in fact "real". The only course they had open to them was to divert physics onto another track. Einstein provided what they needed. At the forefront of those discoveries was Nikola Tesla, and one of his discoveries was radio communication with Extraterrestrials. I will be discussing the intelligent radio signals that SETI is trying to ignore.
* NPA has a small yahoogroup called NPA Dissidents for anyone who may be interested. And Roger does talk about such things somewhat on that forum: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/NPA_Dissidents.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:42 am

lizzie wrote:
Sparky said: What you are "seeing" is an illusion.


"Having eyes, see ye not and having ears, hear ye not and do ye not remember?" (Mark 8:18)


They look like ruins to me, too.

Mars Ruins
http://marsruins.com/


I've been looking around in your marsruins site this morning... One interesting page:

http://www.marsruins.com/HappyFaceCrate ... sRuins.htm
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:44 am

Lloyd wrote: At the forefront of those discoveries was Nikola Tesla, and one of his discoveries was radio communication with Extraterrestrials. I will be discussing the intelligent radio signals that SETI is trying to ignore.[/color]...



Does this thesis include some sort of an explanation as to how you'd communicate in real time using radio waves? I mean, a communications medium operating at a transmission speed of C would be worthless for cosmic distances.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:28 pm

@Lloyd
Shocking Findings Led to Suppression of Real Physics and Diversion to Relativity

From what I have read of Einstein, he often made comments that would seem to
indicate that even he did not believe some of what he was saying. I have to wonder
if he was not coerced, threatened even, by those who would confound our understanding
of the true nature of reality. I think they are still at it, with their Black Holes,
cosmic distances, evolution, fossil fuels, and many other misdirections. Or perhaps I'm
totally delusional?

@tholden
I mean, a communications medium operating at a transmission speed of C would be worthless for cosmic distances

Hmm, maybe those cosmic distances are not as large as we are told? But that's another thread. ;-)
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Wed Nov 23, 2011 12:48 pm

lizzie wrote:
Sparky said: What you are "seeing" is an illusion.


"Having eyes, see ye not and having ears, hear ye not and do ye not remember?" (Mark 8:18)


They look like ruins to me, too.


Having eyes, see ye not , except ye by distorted, delusional thinking.

Faces can be found everywhere an illusion is formed. A face in a cloud formation, can be delusionally elevated to a "sign from god"! :roll:

*******************
th,
I notice several things, which I have indicated in this marked-up image:


What nonsense! The extreme mental contortions you have gone to in order to "see" a face, for whatever mental satisfaction.

I can "see" no face nor a remainder of a face. Because I have no compulsive need to do so, the delusion does not manifest.

But, I do see a cartoon animal character with large ears, to the right of the vertical curved red line, and above the left , upper lip.
It is looking at our left. Is that an indication that whoever stacked those rocks was showing a tattoo on the "supposed face"? :roll:

This reminds me of the Seinfied episode where they were looking at a computer generated pixel image, that had to be looked at with squinted eyes, in a certain way, in order to see the picture.

I saw one of those computer pixel images...i could see the picture for fleeting moments. It was an illusion.. It was not a picture.

Here, you are going in the reverse. It is an illusion. The brain's distortion of the image produces pixels that only can be seen as "something" by the brain's programed "need" to see that thing.

Then a highly speculative, illogical explanation/apology for why it is not formed well enough for most people to recognize instantly.

Could there have been advanced life on mars? Possibly. Any good proof of that. NO. Any evidence at all? I have not seen it. Your eyes have been proven to be lying to you, so why should i believe them? Who's lying eyes should i believe? And most importantly, why? I have no emotional investment in believing nonsense, and belief is mostly, if not completely, nonsense.

And argument against "belief" is useless, as it is self insulating against facts, logic, and sound, moral reasoning. Belief is the cause of the most horrendous acts committed. Beliefs are only supported by dismissiveness , distortions, lies, and ignorance. No thanks.

If you can find some real evidence, maybe step up to the "new insights" section of the NIMI with a thread about a highly speculative theory to promote.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:38 pm

Sparky wrote:
Faces can be found everywhere an illusion is formed. A face in a cloud formation, can be delusionally elevated to a "sign from god"! ....


You clearly did not read the thing I noted about Tom Van Flandern's notes including the proof of artificiality. Once again, in all such cases in which clouds or land forms appear to resemble living forms or artificial things, the closer you get, the less the thing resembles whatever it is. The Face on Mars is the opposite of that.

And have your eyes checked.
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Thu Nov 24, 2011 12:51 pm

You clearly did not read the thing I noted about Tom Van Flandern's notes including the proof of artificiality. Once again, in all such cases in which clouds or land forms appear to resemble living forms or artificial things, the closer you get, the less the thing resembles whatever it is. The Face on Mars is the opposite of that.


True, I can only review so much nonsense in one day...

The closer you get to anything, the less it resembles whatever it is!!

Did you mean to say by, "The Face on Mars is the opposite of that", that the closer one gets to the "face", the more it will resemble a face? nonsense! Only through a range of distance will
such an illusion manifest. Standing on that formation, you will not see enough to recognize it as anything but rough terrain.
Move out to where it is just another blotch on the planet, and you will not see that illusion. But i am sure you could find another, larger, natural formation to mentally contort into a "proof" that mars was inhabited.

I am presently watching the PBS program, "Fabric of the Universe"...they are trying to convince me that there are mulitverses, because they "see" them in their equations.

We are all subject to illusions and delusions, unless we make the effort to understand them.
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby tholden » Thu Nov 24, 2011 3:41 pm

Sparky wrote:
Did you mean to say by, "The Face on Mars is the opposite of that", that the closer one gets to the "face", the more it will resemble a face? .....



That is precisely what I said and that is a fact. Again you should check out the link I've posted to Tom Van Flandern's webpage and before you start laughing, consider that Tom was Director of the Naval Observatory and had major kinds of credentials in space science, and I would assume it to be highly likely that YOU do not...

Once again:

http://metaresearch.org/solar%20system/ ... /proof.asp
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby GaryN » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:04 pm

The latest find by the Cydonia institute, the Avian Geoglyph.
Image
Maybe we could have a competition to see who can make the best geoglyph from Martian features?
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Ther Human Story: topic suggestions

Unread postby Sparky » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:16 pm

tholden wrote:
Sparky wrote:
Did you mean to say by, "The Face on Mars is the opposite of that", that the closer one gets to the "face", the more it will resemble a face? .....



That is precisely what I said and that is a fact. Again you should check out the link I've posted to Tom Van Flandern's webpage and before you start laughing, consider that Tom was Director of the Naval Observatory and had major kinds of credentials in space science, and I would assume it to be highly likely that YOU do not...

Once again:

http://metaresearch.org/solar%20system/ ... /proof.asp


then, like i explained, it is nonsense, whether from a "credentialed" professional or some wana-be who accepts nonsense as factual and real.

I am not laughing....not at physical nor mental disabilities that i see in this world....well, maybe at some of the things people do on "funny home videos".

And what you imply is correct. I am a nobody, a nothing, incompetent, a complete failure. If it were not for other's generosity, i would have died long ago, not have shelter and food now, nor be on the internet to waste hours each day. If a phd level education, social position, or political acumen are the only credentials that are acceptable for discernment of the obvious, then i have none. (btw, your argument is a logical fallacy. do you know which one?)

But poverty can overtake the rich, weakness the strong, and mental disability, the once stable and intelligent.

The most absurd conclusions, derived from quantum theories, mysticism, religious texts, and political ideologies, are illusions manufactured by delusions, from observing illusions, if there is no genetic or brain trauma involved. Absurdity seems to be the human condition. If it is, then thinking an illusion or delusion is real, is normal, except to those who do not share that particular delusion, and are "normal" in other ways...
"It is dangerous to be right in matters where established men are wrong."
"Doubt is not an agreeable condition, but certainty is an absurd one."
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." Voltaire
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