Revising Ancient Chronology

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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venn
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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by venn » Sun Oct 09, 2011 2:57 pm

Some material on Tell Munbaqa

First some background from “Ancient Near Eastern Chronology Revised” by Gunnar Heinsohn from 1993 published in “The Velikovskian”, Vol. I, No. 1 (references removed for readability), also partially available in “Pillars of the Past I”, p. 278:
I will elaborate on the fatal flaw of the archeologies from Egypt to the Indus Valley by focusing on the Mitanni, which are conventionally dated to the -15th/-14th century. As might be known, the Mitanni are quite a recent acquaintance to history: “The kingdom of Mitanni was completely forgotten for millennia until discoveries in the [19th] century revealed its name and existence.”

Today, however, the Mitanni provide the most important archeological synchronisms for the ancient Near East and Egypt. Mitanni strata were not only found in Mesopotamia proper, for example, at Tell Brak, Tell Munbaqa, Tell Hamadiyah, Nuzi and Chagar Bazar, but also in Syro-Phoenicia (at Alalakh). In addition, strata of the Mitanni or Late Bronze IB/ IIA period (-l5th/-l4th century) were found in numerous sites of Israel/Palestine (at Hazor, Beth-Shean, Megiddo, Gezer, Tell Batash and Shechem). And last, but not least, correspondence partners of the Mitanni are well known in Egypt's New Kingdom (Amenophis III and Akhenaton). Because of its highly peculiar pottery style (Nuzi Ware) and a wealth of written tablets listing its rulers also known from the Amarna correspondence, there is little danger that archeologists do not recognize a stratum of the Mitanni nation once they see it. Thus, no other nation of antiquity is better suited for archeological cross-references than the Mitanni.

The Mitanni got their -15th/-l4th century date via the Amarna correspondence, which was dated by the pseudo-astronomical scheme of Sothic cycles. This scheme never fared well with astronomers, but it took up to 1985 until mainstream Egyptology abandoned it as well, with no less an authority than the editor of the Lexikon der Ägyptologie taking the lead: “Work on chronology has clearly arrived at a crisis. The reason for this is in part the adoption of dogmatic [Sothic] scientific facts without testing their applicability to Egyptian material and the reliability of this material.”

After abandoning Sothic chronology in 1985, archeologists were thrown back on stratigraphy-oriented dating techniques. Most severely affected, of course, were the sites in Israel which were dated via the Sothic-dated Amarna correspondence. This correspondence not only puts Thutmose III as a forerunner of kings Amenophis III and IV but also places the Hyksos before him. The chronology of all the sites in Biblical lands mentioned above are tied to the Hyksos (or Middle Bronze II) Sothic date of the -17th/ -16th century as well as to Thutmose III's (or Late Bronze IA) -15th century. Thus, at least since 1985, because the Sothic dating is incorrect, it is known that all these sites are dated by unscholarly means.

For this reason, I first tried a dating scheme based on archeological artifacts, focusing on the Hyksos. For long, they were known for many parallels with the Old Akkadians of Mesopotamia, which were dated more than 700 years earlier. The similarity of pottery shapes between Mesopotamian Early Bronze (Old Akkadians) and Western Middle Bronze (Hyksos) was already carefully shown 20 years ago. Kaplan's findings were confirmed by S. Ayoub and by D. L. Stein. The identity of Hyksos and Old Akkadian cylinder seals was shown more than 50 years ago. It became clear that the Old Akkadian motifs were combined with the iconography of the newly acquired province of Egypt. The similarity of Hyksos and Old Akkadian seals was confirmed 15 years ago by Dominique Collon. She showed that the bull-men seals in Alalakh's Hyksos stratum VII, which immediately precedes the Mitanni strata, look Old Akkadian, whereas the seal in stratum XI, labeled Old Akkadian by Leonard Woolley, in actual fact belongs to the Early Dynastic period if not the Uruk period (-3100 onwards) as does the architecture of the same stratum. The identity of Hyksos' vaulted burials (in Tell el-Daba) with Early Old Akkadian (or Late Early Dynastic IIIB) burials in the Diyala was shown nearly ten years ago. The similarity between Western Middle Bronze or Hyksos triple gates and Mesopotamian Early Bronze triple gates was shown 15 years ago. The identity of Hyksos or Middle Bronze scimitars in the West and Old Akkadian or Early Bronze scimitars in Mesopotamia is at least known for more than a quarter of a century. The identity of Hyksos Akkadian with Old Akkadian Akkadian was shown 30 years ago. This finding was further confirmed when it was understood that the Old Hittites of the -16th century (conventionally), contemporaries of the Hyksos whatever their absolute dates, also used Old Akkadian dates (of -2400) and not Old Babylonian ones (-2000 to -1700) as was expected.

After Hyksos and Old Akkadians shared scripts, scimitars, triple gates, pottery shapes, vaulted burials, temple plans, etc., it became unavoidable to postulate their stratigraphic contemporaneity. To establish the identity of stratigraphical horizons for Old Akkadians ... and Hyksos, we have to return to the chronologically all-important Mitanni: The -17th/-16th century strata of the Hyksos in Egypt (Tell el-Daba), Israel (Megiddo) and Syro-Phoenicia (Alalakh) sit directly underneath the strata of the Mitanni (or New Kingdom) period of the -15th/-14th century. These Hyksos strata are labeled Middle Bronze. In conventional Mesopotamian archeology, of course, there are no Hyksos strata. But Mesopotamia, like Egypt, Israel and Syro-Phoenicia, has -15th/-14th century strata for the Mitanni Late Bronze I period (in Brak, Chagar Bazar, Hamadiyah, Munbaqa, Nuzi and Rimah). This Late Bronze I period, of course, is the same as the Sothic-dated New Kingdom period whose rulers corresponded with Mitanni rulers. Immediately preceding these Mitanni strata, archeologists found Old Akkadian strata of the -24th century onwards, or – as in Rimah – they found Old Assyrian strata (-1950 to -1750). These strata are labeled Early Bronze or (in Rimah) Early Middle Bronze. The excavators believe that all these sites suffered a settlement gap of 700 to 800 years or (in Rimah) of some 250 years until the Mitanni resettled the ruins.

I say believe because, up to 1988, no archaeologist ever put the hiatus [settlement gap] to the test. None of the excavation reports listed any hard evidence for a hiatus of 750 or 250 years. No dramatic discontinuity of pottery styles, [the shape of] tools ..., or building ground plans was reported. The same silence covered the fact that aeolic (windblown) layers usually required for a gap of so many centuries were missing. All the archaeologists did was ... apply knowledge of textbook chronology: A tablet [in the ground] inscribed in Old Akkadian automatically brought the stratum in which it was found into the -24th century. Since these strata were found underneath Mitanni strata, whose Sothic Amarna textbook date was the -15th century, none of the archaeologists failed to mention the settlement gap between the Akkadian and the immediately following Mitanni stratum. Thus they proved that they had attended their history classes. From an archaeological viewpoint, however, they had proven nothing.
If you read the complete article in “The Velikovsikan” be aware that Heinsohn does no longer (since 2005/2006) uphold the identity of the Old Assyrians with the Old Akkadians. The Old Assyrians now immediately follow the Old Akkadians in some places and are now part of the second prehellenistic strata group.

In 1988 the first test of Heinsohn's theory happened at Tell Munbaqa in Syria (Pillars of the Past I, p. 284-285):
Heinsohn reported on these findings at the Sixth International Congress of Egyptology in 1993:
“When, in February 1988, the author [Heinsohn] first published ... his stratigraphy-based equation of Hyksos and Old Akkadians, the German archaeologist Wilfried Pape excavating at Tell Munbaqa/Syria was the first to take up the challenge [that claim there was no 750-year settlement gap there].... W. Pape devoted the first special sounding to this ‘gap’ but could not confirm the hiatus between ca. 2250 and ca. 1475 [B.C.]. On the contrary, he found clearcut architectural continuity. This observation was written to the author [Heinsohn] on November 22, 1988. In 1989, three special soundings were brought down to test Munbaqa’s Akkad-Mitanni gap. A geologist specializing in sediments and aeolic layers [U. Rösner] confirmed the work of the archaeologist. There is no hiatus between the Old-Akkadian and Mitanni/Hurrian strata at Munbaqa … Moreover, Old-Akkadian cylinder seals remained in use for business contracts in the Mitanni/Hurrian stratum ..., another indication of the uninterrupted continuity between both periods, i.e. for the very
absence of a hiatus of some 750 years.”
Here is the translated letter in question (Pillars of the Past I, p. 284-285):
Translation of letter to Prof. Dr. Gunnar Heinsohn, University of
Bremen, from Wilfried Pape, Architect, Berlin, dated November 22, 1988:

Dear Mr. Heinsohn,
With reference to your book Die Sumerer gab es nicht (The Sumerians Never Existed) I would like to inform you of the following. I am an architect and have been working for nearly fifteen years in a “semi"-professional capacity in the field of archeology. I have been to Turkey, Egypt, Yemen, and have been working in Syria for the last five years. I consider myself a reasonable judge both of archaeologists and their motives, and of stratigraphic materials. In the last five years I have been able to acquire rather precise stratigraphic knowledge of Tell Munbaqa on the eastern bank of the Euphrates. For two years I have made deliberate efforts to find evidence against your theses. According to official chronology, there should be about 700 years between the Early Bronze and Late Bronze strata that were found on our Tell. Based on my investigations and observations I have come to the conclusion that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a gap in occupation of +/- 700 years to have existed on Munbaqa. It is not the purpose of my letter to go into detail but just to give you an indication that may contribute to the debate on chronology which I consider to be useful. Unfortunately the archaeologists involved in this particular excavation have only limited ability for carrying on such a discussion. You probably know the reasons better than I do. They have not expressed any interest in reading your book, they prefer to maintain a hiatus of 700 years on Munbaqa, even without sufficient arguments in favor.

Yours sincerely,
(signed) W. Pape
Details on Rösner's work are provided by Ginenthal on pages 279-282 in Pillars of the Past I:
U. Rösner's geological paper on the 1989 dig at Tell Munbaqa was fully published, in English in 1995 in QUARTÄR [Band 45/46, p. 207], titled “Sedimentological Evidence to Archaeological Problems on Tall Munbaqa, Northsyria.”

What Rosner found was that “[d]ue to a relatively fast burying by broken down wall remainders the aeolian sediment character was preserved. In 1989, the year of the investigation, the excavators [archaeologists] discussed the occupation gap between the Early [Akkadian] and the Late Bronze Age [Mitanni], HOWEVER, NO SEDIMENTOLOGICAL INDICATIONS FOR A MIDDLE BRONZE OCCUPATION GAP WERE DISCOVERED.” [capitalization and bold added]

In her conclusion, she makes it quite clear that not only do the geological sediments prove that there was no settlement gap, but she claims the archaeological evidence also supports this conclusion:
“Detailed study of the sediments from Tall Munbaqa ALONG WITH EVALUATION OF ARCHAEOLOGICAL FINDINGS yielded evidence to events during the occupation as well as to chronological problems …”

“The accurate investigation of a cultural level, which should theoretically represent a Middle Bronze Age occupation gap, could not prove an aeolian component. But to be certain it would have to be expected at an actual interruption of the occupation of about 600 years. This statement is sustained by the results of the sediment analysis above the oldest Late Bronze Age road. Therefore, including the first archaeological results, it is more likely that a continuous occupation has existed. LATER ON, THESE SEDIMENTOLOGICAL INTERPRETATION'S WERE CONFIRMED BY NEW ARCHAEOLOGICAL FINDINGS ON TELL MUNBAQA MADE DURING THE EXCAVATIONS OF THE EARLY [NINETEEN] NINETIES (see D. Machule 1995, [QUARTÄR, Band 45/46, p. 218]).” [capitalization added]
Rösner makes it quite clear that further archaeological work was carried out by Machule’s team in the early l990’s that corroborates her geological sediment research. This Machule published in the same year as Rösner -1995 - in Reallexikon der Assyriologie und Vorderasiatischen Archäologie.

In that article we are told that New Bronze Age material lies directly on top of Old Bronze Age material. No reference to a settlement gap is ever mentioned as if Rösner’s geological evidence did not exist. Instead, we are told that a Middle Bronze Age temple was uncovered in one area of the tell. How is the Dating on this temple arrived at? It is made by pottery dating, etc. But that dating is self-referential (a circular argument). Rösner showed that there was no settlement gap between the Old Akkadians/First Babylonians and the Mitanni, proving that these two peoples ruled consecutively, one directly after the other. To interpret a temple in the strata as being of the Middle Bronze Age does not invalidate the geological evidence. It is an attempt at overcoming geological fact with historical interpretation. Since there is no settlement layer between the assumed Old Bronze Age Old Akkadians and the New Bronze Age Mitanni, as Rösner proved, there is no time intervening between the Old and New Bronze Ages. The entire concept that the historians and archaeologists are using regarding Middle and New Bronze Ages in Mesopotamia cannot be valid. If that was the case, then it would require that a 700 to 800 year gap exists, and it simply does not.

[...]

Above and beyond all this, Rösner reports: “The excavation in 'Sondage östlicher Steinbau 2' ... ‘also yielded some scattered Middle Bronze age ceramics, which on the other hand could as well be defined by some archeologists as ending (still in use) Early Bronze Age ceramic or as early (already in use) Late Bronze Age ceramic’ (D. Machule, written, translated communication).” That is, Machule admits that the identification of the Late Bronze Age ceramics which were found could not be solid proof of a Middle Bronze Age occupation because such ceramics were “(still in use) [during the] Early Bronze Age ... or ... (already in use) [during the] Late Bronze Age”.
Ginenthal concludes (page 282):
Turning to such evidence in order to dismiss Heinsohn’s prediction that there is not a settlement gap between these peoples is not historically plausible. Machule is turning to pottery dating which was organized on the lines Petrie established. Since that dating method is fundamentally unsound in its
present form, pottery dating at Tell Munbaqa is enormously problematic.

The geological evidence proves that the so-called Mitanni ruled directly after the so-called Old Akkadians. That is the heart of the matter and is the problem for conventional chronology.

One cannot move the Mitanni back in time by 700 to 800 years without completely overturning established Mesopotamian chronology; nor can one move the Old Akkadians forward in time by the same number of years without doing the same. The facts of geological research are a death knell to conventional chronology, and those researchers committed to it are incapable of dealing with that fact.
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” - Halton Arp.

venn
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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by venn » Sun Oct 09, 2011 3:01 pm

Needless to say that after the fiasco at Tell Munbaqa so far nobody has dared to try another direct test (and has come forward with it) ...
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” - Halton Arp.

tholden
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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by tholden » Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:45 am

venn wrote:
On a personal note, I do not follow Ginenthal in his opinion of the usefulness of radiocarbon dating, dendrochronology and astronomical retrocalculation. Ginenthal is too uncritical of those methods which have not only quantitative but massive qualitative issues which make then unusable for any chronological work.
You apparently read just enough of a section of PP to get a wrong impression on that one, Charles Ginenthal does not have any love for radiocarbon dating or dendrochronology or retrocalculations.

A lot of people view Greenland ice cores as some sort of a magic bullet against Heinsohn and Ginenthal... What I usually reply to that is the thing about "Glacier Girl", which refer to as an AAF (Amalekite Air Force) aircraft since its location in the ice flows indicates that by standard/talk.origins logic it must have gone down around 3500 BC:

Image

Amalekite P-38 "Glacier Girl"

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by venn » Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:54 am

tholden wrote: You apparently read just enough of a section of PP to get a wrong impression on that one, Charles Ginenthal does not have any love for radiocarbon dating or dendrochronology or retrocalculations.
Are you sure about that? Ginenthal fully supports Lynn Rose's dating and method of dating of the 12th dynasty which is based on astronomical recalculation. What about that? On C14 my impression of Ginenthals writing is that while he thinks the previous and current usage of the method is scandalous and the results are broken, the method itself might be fixable. And just that is where I wanted to point out a difference: I do not think it can be fixed. The problems of the method are not only of a quantitative kind but of a qualitative. No fix possible. Same goes for Dendrochronology. If my impression is wrong, please point me to the relevant sections in Ginenthals writings.

I agree with what you wrote about the ice-core dating method. Same big problems as with every other scientific dating method.
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” - Halton Arp.

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by StevenJay » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:20 am

I realize that the antiquity I'm referring to is long before the period being discussed here, but it seemed like an appropriate place to bring it up.

When I first read about the Saturn Theory many years ago, it immediately rang a bell and spoke to me at a very deep level.

More recently, though, part of the chronology of the theory has begun to bug me. Perhaps it has already been addressed somewhere and I’ve just missed it. At any rate, what’s bugging me is this:

If, according to most interpretations of the Saturn Theory, we have based our time-keeping system on the Earth’s rotation on its axis, as well as its annual orbit around Sol, for at least the last 4500 years or so, what about all of the time prior to Earth finally achieving a relatively stable orbit in its current location? During the Saturn epoch, there would have been no way of keeping any meaningful sense of time (nor would there have likely been any need to). And both during, and for a considerable time after the Saturn system break-up, the same lack of any sort of regular cyclical patterns would have still beeen the business of the “day.”

What I'm wondering is, by what yardstick is a “yearly” chronology arrived at that determines that, say, 10 to 12 thousand “years” ago, the Saturn System entered the solar system – and then, say, some 4500 “years” ago, the Saturn System broke up – prior to Earth’s current position and cyclical configuration? I mean, how long, in current Earth-years, did it take for the solar system to cycle through a time of chaos back to a state of relative order? How could we possibly know that? Has any sort of EU modeling been created that might help determine a likely current Earth-year-based timeline?

Any thoughts on the subject would be most appreciated. :)
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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by tholden » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:08 am

venn wrote:
tholden wrote: You apparently read just enough of a section of PP to get a wrong impression on that one, Charles Ginenthal does not have any love for radiocarbon dating or dendrochronology or retrocalculations.
Are you sure about that? Ginenthal fully supports Lynn Rose's dating and method of dating of the 12th dynasty which is based on astronomical recalculation. What about that? On C14 my impression of Ginenthals writing is that while he thinks the previous and current usage of the method is scandalous and the results are broken, the method itself might be fixable. And just that is where I wanted to point out a difference: I do not think it can be fixed. The problems of the method are not only of a quantitative kind but of a qualitative. No fix possible. Same goes for Dendrochronology. If my impression is wrong, please point me to the relevant sections in Ginenthals writings.

I agree with what you wrote about the ice-core dating method. Same big problems as with every other scientific dating method.

Charles took a look at some of this stuff last Friday and his first comment was sort of like "Sheesh, people think I believe in radio-carbon dating..." The retrocalculations I'm less sure of i.e. where Charles stands wrt Lynn Rose's works. Charles has mentioned the huge CO2 reservoirs in tundra and also locked in ocean deposits, either of which alone would raise enough questions about radiocarbon dating to stop anybody from wanting to use it and so I'd have to assume Charles would have no use for it.

My own view would be that radiodating and/or dendrochronology might be of some limited use between our own time and that of Caesar but that would be about all. Retrocalculations would be useful between now and the last event which would have affected our planet's orbit, but not prior to that and I'm not sure if Lynn Rose was staying within that limit.

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by venn » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:13 am

tholden wrote: Charles took a look at some of this stuff last Friday and his first comment was sort of like "Sheesh, people think I believe in radio-carbon dating..." The retrocalculations I'm less sure of i.e. where Charles stands wrt Lynn Rose's works. Charles has mentioned the huge CO2 reservoirs in tundra and also locked in ocean deposits, either of which alone would raise enough questions about radiocarbon dating to stop anybody from wanting to use it and so I'd have to assume Charles would have no use for it.
Okay, I did a lot of rereading myself and it seems my initial words on Charles Ginenthals position about C14 and dendrochronology were a bit off. I guess what caused my comment was a passage from PP I (page 532) which contained the following sentence:
And even in terms of radiocarbon dating, there is plenty of evidence to significantly shorten conventional chronology.
That is something that in my opinion should not be done. If you found a method not to be working because it is completely broken, you do not use it in arguments even if it is sometimes in your favor. It will come back and bite you.

So apologies to Charles Ginenthal are in order regarding my opinion about his level of disbelieve in those methods. I however never said that he believed in them. I also stand by my critique on the above quote.
tholden wrote:My own view would be that radiodating and/or dendrochronology might be of some limited use between our own time and that of Caesar but that would be about all. Retrocalculations would be useful between now and the last event which would have affected our planet's orbit, but not prior to that and I'm not sure if Lynn Rose was staying within that limit.
Those methods are not even usable during the last 1000 years. There are enough examples to prove that.

Regarding Retrocalculation as a valid method one of the big assumptions is, that the timeline / calendar calculation up to that point in time which you want to recalculate is okay and that the physical conditions were not changed in between. But how do you know that? You don't!

The method only gives a number of years counting back, no fixed mapping to calendars. We can not even be sure that our A.D. counting is correct, in fact by now we can be very sure that it is not correct and not by a small part.
"If you take a highly intelligent person and give them the best possible, elite education, then you will most likely wind up with an academic who is completely impervious to reality.” - Halton Arp.

tholden
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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by tholden » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:25 am

venn wrote:
That is something that in my opinion should not be done. If you found a method not to be working because it is completely broken, you do not use it in arguments even if it is sometimes in your favor. It will come back and bite you....
I totally agree with that. One thing I've noted over a long period of time is that people intent on debunking some of these ideas make heavy use of "magic bullets" like the Greenland ice cores and they come unglued when you show them something like that Amalekite P-38. You really don't need to be using ice cores for some other argument the next day...

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by tholden » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:31 am

StevenJay wrote:
..What I'm wondering is, by what yardstick is a “yearly” chronology arrived at that determines that, say, 10 to 12 thousand “years” ago, the Saturn System entered the solar system – and then, say, some 4500 “years” ago, the Saturn System broke up – prior to Earth’s current position and cyclical configuration? I mean, how long, in current Earth-years, did it take for the solar system to cycle through a time of chaos back to a state of relative order? How could we possibly know that? Has any sort of EU modeling been created that might help determine a likely current Earth-year-based timeline?

Any thoughts on the subject would be most appreciated. :)
Again the main problem as I see it is that the most significant work which has been done along such lines has been done by the other branch of the neo-catastrophism family (Ginenthal, Rose, Heinsohn, Sweeney et. al.) but you'd never know that from much of what you'd read on this forum.

You should have copies of Emmet Sweeney's two books, 'Pyramid Age' and "Genesis of Israel and Egypt'. If you can stand reading thicker books, copies of Ginenthal's 'Pillars of the Past' (three volumns) recommend themselves.

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:20 pm

You should have copies of Emmet Sweeney's two books, 'Pyramid Age' and "Genesis of Israel and Egypt'. If you can stand reading thicker books, copies of Ginenthal's 'Pillars of the Past' (three volumns) recommend themselves.
I'm struggling with the The Magdalenians being contemporary with Egypt and Mesopotamia though

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:41 pm

I'm not convinced Emmet Sweeney is correct in saying the Magdalenians were not aware of, or drew any representations of the sun, moon and planets. Also you seem to be saying, that all dates arrived at by any method of Radiocarbon dating, ice core dates, and dendrochronology are completely misleading, so only Stratigraphy should be considered? I think the jury is still out upon this though I admit there are problems with all of these methods. However to insist that Stratigraphy is the only true system of dating is in my view peremptory to say the least.

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 5:57 pm

Also as I'm sure you are aware complete Stratigraphic records are only available in a few long time occupied places.

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:06 pm

How does Stratigraphy explain Quaternary extinctions?

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:09 pm

In the Siberian Islands for example?

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Re: Revising Ancient Chronology

Post by daveycreatrix » Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:11 pm

Or rather how does it date that event other than by references to mythology?

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