Higgs boson

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Higgs boson

Unread postby starbiter » Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:20 am

What do forum members think of the latest rumor about Higgs boson?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

http://www.google.com/#sclient=psy&hl=e ... 80&bih=685

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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby tayga » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:09 pm

I think that the energies involved in accelerators create particles that probably have no relevance to the everyday life of our universe. The postulated existence of the Higgs boson arises from a school of thought that doesn't even consider mass and gravity as charge-related phenomena and is therefore, in my opinion, just more nonsense from another branch of Physics that lost its way over 100 years ago.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby hertz » Fri Jun 24, 2011 9:05 pm

just because they don't know what they are looking at, doesn't mean they haven't found something
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby Sparky » Sat Jun 25, 2011 7:03 am

the higgs boson is probably nonsense, that is derived from faulty math.

-so the Higgs mechanism is a mechanism with no mechanism.

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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby tayga » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:03 pm

hertz wrote:just because they don't know what they are looking at, doesn't mean they haven't found something


Indeed. I'd expect an accelerator that's operating in a new energy range will see numerous 'new particles'.
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby Sparky » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:27 am

tayga wrote:
hertz wrote:just because they don't know what they are looking at, doesn't mean they haven't found something


Indeed. I'd expect an accelerator that's operating in a new energy range will see numerous 'new particles'.


Yes, but are these particles of any value? example: a large explosions destroys a car. finding the engine would be valuable as it would be an important part of the car. finding a bit of ignition wire would not be important as that bit of wire would be a minor part of a minor part of the engine, and thus, just garbage.. am i in error? thank you.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby hertz » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:21 am

let's just say i think they'd have better luck using an aetherometric rather than a quantum frame of reference...the physico-mathematical model that eluded tesla is probably right under their noses
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby tayga » Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:31 pm

Sparky wrote:
tayga wrote:Indeed. I'd expect an accelerator that's operating in a new energy range will see numerous 'new particles'.


Yes, but are these particles of any value? example: a large explosions destroys a car. finding the engine would be valuable as it would be an important part of the car. finding a bit of ignition wire would not be important as that bit of wire would be a minor part of a minor part of the engine, and thus, just garbage.. am i in error? thank you.


More like seeing a bit of the engine travelling at ballistic speeds. I think that the sort of particles that are seen in accelerators are possibly just excited versions of particles already described, and combinations thereof.

For example, I'd be surprised if we didn't eventually discover that muons and tauons are just electrons or positrons with more mass/energy. The fact that they readily decay to something more familiar suggests it.
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It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Jun 29, 2011 1:28 pm

For example, I'd be surprised if we didn't eventually discover that muons and tauons are just electrons or positrons with more mass/energy. The fact that they readily decay to something more familiar suggests it.


I'm with you there tayga, makes much more sense to me.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby Komorikid » Mon Jul 11, 2011 2:39 am

If we apply Occ.'s Razor to this problem we see that Particle Physics is nothing but a deluded phantasy. It's not that it took a wrong turn a century ago, it should never have been given traction to go anywhere but down the S-bend.

The simplest explanation for the atom is it's comprised of only ONE particle – an Electron/Neutrino, which has two properties. What these two properties are is easy to understand. We just have to look at matter to see that one property is its tendency to clump together and when it doesn't clump together it travels at near light speed. One particle with two properties.

The only reason the proton was conceives was to balance the misconceived notion of positive and negative charge (polarity). Polarity in electricity was conceived because of a basic misunderstanding of what a magnet is and how it actually works.

The universe and everything in it including all forms of animate an inanimate matter exist because of electrical flows. These electrical flows do not travel from negative to positive they travel in one direction due to a difference in potential. ALL electrical flows are due to potential difference. These potential difference can exist across the width of a cell wall or the breadth of a galaxy.

Consider the simplest battery. What is actually happening when there is an electric flow? A flow of electrons is said to stream from the negative terminal through a circuit, turn a motor/light a filament on its way to the positive terminal. But where does the electron go once it reaches the positive end of the circuit. And how can it be a circuit if it merely travels from one the the other. Where do those hard working little electrons go?

A battery is made of two different compounds of differing electrical potential. When a circuit is connected the compound with an excess of electrons sheds the excess which, naturally travels to the compound with the deficiency of electrons. The object of all electrical flows is to seek equilibrium. The flow will continue until the potential between both compounds is equalised. In doing so both compound will change their chemical structure – the battery is now DEAD.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby kiwi » Mon Jul 11, 2011 4:05 pm

great post Komorikid :idea: 8-)
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby mharratsc » Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:29 pm

Particle acceleration to study subatomic structure is like using train wrecks to study anatomy!

Look at how they come up with these 'new' particles (which earns them big bragging rights in their circles I'm sure)- spin up/down, left/right, goes here/goes there, etc etc etc...and oddly enough they find 'new' particles every single time they come up with a new atom smasher that can impart more and more and even more energy into their little test subjects! :roll:
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby tayga » Wed Jul 13, 2011 1:40 am

mharratsc wrote:Particle acceleration to study subatomic structure is like using train wrecks to study anatomy!


You said what I was trying to say so much more succinctly, Mike.

If you could imagine using a low-resolution mobile phone to take a video of the crash, as it happened, at night, in fog, that would just about complete the picture :D
tayga


It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong.

- Richard P. Feynman

Normal science does not aim at novelties of fact or theory and, when successful, finds none.
- Thomas Kuhn
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby miggysaw » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:18 am

Describing the cornerstone of formation has been outside of the full potential of science and religion to date. This is until now, maybe. Fermilab in Illinois - as well as Cern labs in Switzerland - say they have found the “God particle”. With the Tevatron Large Hadron Collider, Fermilab found a cluster of the subtle Higgs boson particle that has remained invisible to human understanding for millions of years. I read this here: Higgs boson breakthrough hailed as window unto creation.I wish this will not accidentally create like black hole that will definetely distract as all.
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Re: Higgs boson

Unread postby Komorikid » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:27 am

The Higgs boson God particle announcements were made at a recent Europhysics conference in Grenoble, France. Scientists pointed out that what have been discovered so far are “hints” and other signs of Higgs boson particles and that it will take approximately a month to filter the data for verification purposes. Cern Large Hadron Collider project spokeswoman Fabiola Tonelli stated that nothing is certain yet, but the latest results are “intriguing.” Fermilab’s Donald Lincoln seconded this sentiment in an email media release.


Hints, nothing is certain, intriguing results.

Just another blip on the oscilloscope they can't explain - AGAIN
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