The Boring Sun

[fosborn_]

@astro

I don't see why we should doubt the word of astronauts who have actually BEEN to space.

Does that mean you believe the astronauts who say it is completely black when looking away from Earth? fosborn seems to think they are lying.

They're not lying. They simply didn't have the right conditions to see the stars. Neil Armstrong said he couldn’t see stars in space. But he was referring to the inability to see stars on the daylight side of the Moon, given how bright the lunar surface can be relative to the black of space.

This is just GaryN's method of frustrating your reasonable objections. By intentional out of the context information.
And why he invalidates himself as an investigativor. IMO

[perpetual motion]

I'am with Gary on this one, as I have been digging the internet
for viable truth as to REAL PHOTOS of ACCUAL LIGHT outside
of any orbiting body's corona within this solar system. Have found
a grand total of Zilch.
Electricity is man's prototype, plasma is the name of the game now
because it is going to be a long long time before man can control
this one.
Thanks Gary, you got me a going with all these posts of no photos
of real light.
We will never find out because they will never tell us what is out
there.

[D_Archer]

hi Gary,

I really liked this thread and have been following it from the beginning.

To me the lie is always grander than we can imagine and the truth ever further away in these matters, you're questioning is very good but to go at it alone without the resources of a nation...possible but...

...I think it would be best to revisit this when we as humans actually have a real physical understanding of what light is, because only when we know the physics can we start to explain anything.

Regards,
Daniel

[fosborn_]

Sentimentality over science, gets you a pass on being held to a reasonable standard to present accurate information? O well.

[Electro]

Guys, you haven't answered the question. Why would NASA be making this all up? Why would astronauts lie about it as well? Were you in space, or are simply spaced out?

Wow! Fake satellite images and lying astronauts. And I guess they never made it to the Moon either. All those scientists, technicians, astronauts keeping the secret... That's some conspiracy!

[GaryN]

@fosborn

Sentimentality over science

No, I finally realised the error of my ways, it's consensus over science that really counts.
So here is the consensus image of the Sun from space:

Source: wikipedia, Image: pixabay

The Sun is a brilliant white from space, so bright that the sunspots can not be seen, but the stars will still be visible. That's the consensus, so it must be correct. And the reason that there are no Optical Solar telescopes in space is that it is very dangerous to do anything in space. Fortunately the Chinese were warned of the dangers, and decided to build the Solar telescope on Earth.
Space Solar Telescope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Telescope
China to Launch First Space Telescope

With a 100-cm optical lens and a group of X-ray equipped telescopes on it, the 2-ton-weight telescope, called "Space Solar Telescope", is designed with a service term of three to five years. With the cost of over RMB 2 billion yuan, the Space Solar Telescope is China's most expensive space explorer by far.

http://www.china.org.cn/english/28612.htm
Solar Space Telescope

It is not easy to realize high-resolution and very wide spectrum observation of the Sun and its fine structure with ground-based equipments, because the atmosphere on the Earth will absorb the radiation and atmospheric turbulence will blur the solar image. Scientists in National Astronomical Observatory, Chinese Academy of Sciences (NAOC) dedicate to develop a Space Solar Telescope (SST) to do solar observation and research outside the earth atmosphere.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/world/china/sst.htm
China Exclusive: Scientists looking for site for giant solar telescope

There are also more ambitious plans for China to build telescopes in space. "We are planning both ground-based and space solar telescopes," Deng said, adding China is planning to launch the Space Solar Telescope (SST) project, which was first proposed in mid-1990s.
"Astronomical observation through space telescopes avoids disturbance from the earth's atmosphere," said Lin Jun.
However, due to the difficulty and risks of space missions, working from the ground is a better way to develop the technology and the approach to use later for space mission, he said.

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china ... 808927.htm
Celestial Eye

The space telescope will orbit close to the Tiangong 3 space station, where it can be quickly serviced by taikonauts and robots.

http://www.popsci.com/chinas-answer-to-hubble-telescope
Way to go China!

[Electro]

@fosborn

Sentimentality over science

No, I finally realised the error of my ways, it's consensus over science that really counts.
So here is the consensus image of the Sun from space:

Source: wikipedia, Image: pixabay

The Sun is a brilliant white from space, so bright that the sunspots can not be seen, but the stars will still be visible. That's the consensus, so it must be correct.

That "picture" is an artist's depiction of white dwarf stars Sirius A and B:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/space/d ... tmosphere/


For a real image of the Sun from space, with no stars, see:



https://www.nasa.gov/externalflash/eart ... ccess.html

Again, as you can notice, you cannot see stars for obvious reasons... No conspiracy needed...

[fosborn_]

Here is a good zenith shot too.

Genini4EVA_SunZenith3.gif (41.57 KiB) Viewed 6541 times

No difference in brightness I note...

[Electro]

Fortunately the Chinese were warned of the dangers, and decided to build the Solar telescope on Earth.
Space Solar Telescope
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_Solar_Telescope
China to Launch First Space Telescope

With a 100-cm optical lens and a group of X-ray equipped telescopes on it, the 2-ton-weight telescope, called "Space Solar Telescope", is designed with a service term of three to five years. With the cost of over RMB 2 billion yuan, the Space Solar Telescope is China's most expensive space explorer by far.

Well, you gotta hand it to the Chinese. They can't breath without a mask over there, or drink the water without a little arm growing on their forehead a few years later, but they'll have a brand new telescope! Go Chinese!

[GaryN]

@electro

For a real image of the Sun from space, with no stars, see:

Looking sideways through Earths atmosphere, no good.
@fosborn

Here is a good zenith shot too.

Looking Zenith even if the shot was at apogee from Gemini 4 still leaves a lot of matter between them and the Sun.
Lets compare those images to the ones of the Sun from Apollo cislunar space. There are none. If the astronauts could see something, they took a photo, if they couldn't, they didn't. What's wrong with that logic? And I watched the video, the lens they were using makes the Earth surface look concave at one point, very wide angle, so the Sun may appear to be higher up, but as confirmed by Celestia, the Sun was actually just above Earths horizon at the time they were in orbit, so again looking sideways through the atmosphere. No good.

@electro

Guys, you haven't answered the question. Why would NASA be making this all up?

All the models collapse if the stars are not visible from clear space.

Why would astronauts lie about it as well?

The astronauts do not lie, when they say they can see stars, they can, when they say it is totally black, it is. It all depends if they are looking through Earths atmosphere or looking into deep space. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

[fosborn_]

GarN;
Looking Zenith even if the shot was at apogee from Gemini 4 still leaves a lot of matter between them and the Sun. ...

All the models collapse if the stars are not visible from clear space

There is no clear space. Anywhere.

It is a zenith shot obviously and I will retrieve previously posted cis lunar evidence of a brillant sun on reflective surfaces and refute your ridiculous assertion that the tiny Apollo flood light can gennerate that brightness, and from such steep angles of incidence.

[Electro]

@electro

For a real image of the Sun from space, with no stars, see:

Looking sideways through Earths atmosphere, no good.

@electro

Guys, you haven't answered the question. Why would NASA be making this all up?

All the models collapse if the stars are not visible from clear space.

Why would astronauts lie about it as well?

The astronauts do not lie, when they say they can see stars, they can, when they say it is totally black, it is. It all depends if they are looking through Earths atmosphere or looking into deep space. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

At 400 km from the ground, where the ISS is, the thermosphere is very thin. I wouldn't even call that an atmosphere. For me, those astronauts ARE in space.

I don't think it has anything to do with the atmosphere. If it's dark enough and they're not blinded by the Sun, they'll see stars.

Sun seen from the Moon:

[fosborn_]

Picture of EVA lighting system.

Cis-Lunar EVA, obviously in sun light, not EVA lighting system.

tumblr_n9h5ntpvaq1sg8i4lo.png (45.33 KiB) Viewed 6506 times

http://from-the-earth-to-the-moon13.tum ... sit-eva-to

GaryN wrote:
The astronauts do not lie, when they say they can see stars, they can, when they say it is totally black, it is. It all depends if they are looking through Earths atmosphere or looking into deep space. Is that so difficult to comprehend?

No, total speculation presented with certainty. But no truth to it, in this distorted context. IMO

[GaryN]

Cis-Lunar EVA, obviously in sun light, not EVA lighting system.

Without asking the astronauts, we'll never know. You start with an assumption that the Sun is visible in cislunar space. I ask why they have an EVA light if they are constantly in the blazing hot Sun of cislunar space?
@Electro

Sun seen from the Moon:

They did take lots of photos of the Sun from the Lunar surface. They could see a big white light in the lunar sky, they took a photo, lots of photos. So now find an image of the Sun from Lunar orbit.

Here is a look at images just from the first couple of missions. Something interesting, take a photo.

Sun from Earth orbit, seen through the atmosphere.


From Earth orbit the Sun always has that spiky white appearance, camera optics.

Moon from trans-Earth coast, with 3400 film.


Earth with the 3400 film


Solar corona 3400 film


Sun with HCEX film, 60 mm lens, so the Sun is at least ten times bigger than it should be using that lens. No spikes, so this is likely how the Sun actually appears to them, the dust is creating a similar effect to ice crystals create around the bright moon seen from Earth.



Levitated dust diffusing the solar radiation.



Almost total eclipse of Earth from lunar orbit

The Sun through the lunar dust?


Leaving the Moon, an eclipse using the lunar dust to convert solar UV to diffuse light. Lets take a photo!


A full Moon during the trip back to Earth.


So the only thing missing is a photo of the Sun NOT seen through an atmosphere, just hanging all by itself in the deep blackness of cislunar space. Guess it was just too boring to bother with?

[Electro]

Cis-Lunar EVA, obviously in sun light, not EVA lighting system.

Without asking the astronauts, we'll never know. You start with an assumption that the Sun is visible in cislunar space. I ask why they have an EVA light if they are constantly in the blazing hot Sun of cislunar space?
@Electro

Sun seen from the Moon:

They did take lots of photos of the Sun from the Lunar surface. They could see a big white light in the lunar sky, they took a photo, lots of photos. So now find an image of the Sun from Lunar orbit.

Here is a look at images just from the first couple of missions. Something interesting, take a photo.

Sun from Earth orbit, seen through the atmosphere.


From Earth orbit the Sun always has that spiky white appearance, camera optics.

Moon from trans-Earth coast, with 3400 film.


Earth with the 3400 film


Solar corona 3400 film


Sun with HCEX film, 60 mm lens, so the Sun is at least ten times bigger than it should be using that lens. No spikes, so this is likely how the Sun actually appears to them, the dust is creating a similar effect to ice crystals create around the bright moon seen from Earth.



Levitated dust diffusing the solar radiation.



Almost total eclipse of Earth from lunar orbit

The Sun through the lunar dust?


Leaving the Moon, an eclipse using the lunar dust to convert solar UV to diffuse light. Lets take a photo!


A full Moon during the trip back to Earth.


So the only thing missing is a photo of the Sun NOT seen through an atmosphere, just hanging all by itself in the deep blackness of cislunar space. Guess it was just too boring to bother with?

Those are good pictures.

I must admit I don't know why we can't find pictures of the Sun from deep space, or if they did take any. They did not see the point, maybe?

Although there is somewhat of an atmosphere on the Moon, it's extremely thin and contains some gases we don't even have in our own atmosphere. Still, they're seeing the Sun from the Moon's surface. What about the images taken from Mars, where we clearly see the Sun? Again, the atmosphere there is very thin.

I did not go through the whole thread, so perhaps you'd be so kind to point me in the direction of the theory or explanation behind your claims? So far, I don't get why we couldn't see the Sun without an atmosphere. Thanks