The Boring Sun

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby Cargo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:56 pm

Kind of a OT tangent, but I'm drying to know how they control this sat. http://neossat.ca/?page_id=90
There is no indication of any attitude control systems, nothing even physically representative like a few nozzles or vents.
Does it just spin wildly through it's orbit or can they 'point and hold' it?

Home page picture of the 'search region' is sweet. After four years what do we have? Nothing?

http://neossat.ca/
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby Cargo » Mon Dec 04, 2017 10:59 pm

I should have read further.

Attitude Control: less than 1 arcsec pointing error using a star tracker, Sun sensor, magnetometer, reaction wheels and magnetic torque rods


Thing about that for a few minutes.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby fosborn_ » Tue Dec 05, 2017 3:54 am

https://amostech.com/TechnicalPapers/20 ... ALLACE.pdf
Telescope design The optical telescope design is based on the MOST (Microvariability and Oscillations of STars) space telescope [4]. The telescope is a 15cm diameter Maksutov Cassegrain design with two identical E2V frame transfer CCDs sharing the focal plane. One CCD is used for science purposes, while the other CCD is used as a star tracker to maintain the high pointing stability required of NEOSSat. The choice of a MOST-derived telescope design was based on a desire to a) minimize expenses while b) reducing mission risks by using a flight proven telescope design. The design of the telescope differs from MOST’s in that it includes an internal shutter (for sun protection) and field-flattening lenses to improve image quality across the focal plane. CCDs In another attempt to minimize costs a decision was made to use the flight-spare CCD’s from MOST. These flight spares had been used to test the design of MOST’s imaging electronics and to test the behavior of the CCDs under the expected on-orbit radiation environment. A technical assessment of the CCD’s was conducted and concluded that the CCDs were still acceptable for the science team’s needs.

They didn't want to re invent the wheel, so there has been success with the telescope.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby Aardwolf » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:52 am

Cargo wrote:I should have read further.

Attitude Control: less than 1 arcsec pointing error using a star tracker, Sun sensor, magnetometer, reaction wheels and magnetic torque rods


Thing about that for a few minutes.
It always makes me laugh when it's demonstrated that orbits can be maintained electromagnetically, but as far as the sun/planets/moons are concerned their overlapping electromagnetic fields have apparently no effect. It's all gravity.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:26 am

Cargo wrote:They practically admit it themselves.

Telescope able to detect and track satellites and debris in Earth’s orbit, as well as faint asteroids against the dark background of deep space


Even if we go along with the accepted model that the background is totally black, and the stars tiny pinpoints of white light, a dark adapted eye can see a star that is providing about 1700 photons/sec, so the NEOSsat is well capable of detecting the stars against the black background of space. With a very long exposure they would be looking for a dim moving object relative to the bright (overexposed) background stars, a faint smudge. There have been no 'fist light' images from the device, so I assume it is not seeing anything at all. I know I should not assume things though, perhaps the images are classified due to Canadian National Security concerns? That's likely what a Canadian bureaucrat might say I think. :D

@fosborn
They didn't want to re invent the wheel, so there has been success with the telescope.


With measuring stellar oscillations yes, but there are no images from MOST. And it did discover information which overturned some long held beliefs and proves that there is a difference between Earth and space based observations, which must be an effect of Earths atmosphere.

MOST Discoveries
The MOST microsatellite has made a major astronomical discovery. The small space telescope has revealed that the star Procyon does not oscillate. This contradicts previous observations made from Earth-based telescopes. The discovery suggests that long-held theories on the formation and aging of the Sun and other stars need to be reconsidered.

There are no images available from MOST though as it was not 'taking pictures'.
http://www.asc-csa.gc.ca/eng/satellites ... covery.asp

Most likely Procyon is not a Sun at all, just as most of the points of light out there are not.
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby fosborn_ » Wed Dec 06, 2017 8:56 am

GaryN wrote..With measuring stellar oscillations yes, but there are no images from MOST. And it did discover information which overturned some long held beliefs and proves that there is a difference between Earth and space based observations, which must be an effect of Earths atmosphere.


Here is the specs on the orbit and telescope, and would like to pose the following logic..
MOST satellite
Perigee 824.7 km (512.4 mi)
Apogee 840.3 km (522.1 mi)
Inclination 98.7157 degrees
Period 101.4 minutes
Main telescope
Type Maksutov catadioptric
Diameter 15 cm (5.9 in)
Focal length 88.2 cm (34.7 in)
Wavelengths 350-750 nm (Visible light)


It seems its limited to the visible range. If it made discoveries, seeing more beyond the atmosphere, can it also be said it supports to commonly accepted ideas of visible starlight in space? I have looked for other science packages but it seems only the telescope and ccd is all that was used. Have you found anything else?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/most- ... -1.2629994
[quoteCanada's tiny space telescope marks 10th anniversary
Now approaching its 11-year anniversary, the satellite has collected data on more than 5,000 stars. In 2011, it confirmed the existence of a scorching-hot “super-Earth” — a planet slightly larger than ours — orbiting a nearby star. It has also gathered information about the atmospheres and climates of planets outside our solar system, and it continues to search for other Earth-sized planets.[/quote]
But I agree its sad they don't share the images. And I can't find much on the actual design specs.
The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries,
is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby fosborn_ » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:28 am

Have you considered the BRITE Sattellite Image,

Seems all the images are behind a pay wall, but google search images peek..
https://www.google.com/search?q=CSA+BRI ... LGQWORt0fM:
BRITEImageSearch.jpg
BRITEImageSearch.jpg (6.62 KiB) Viewed 164 times

BRITEImageSearch2.jpg
BRITEImageSearch2.jpg (12.09 KiB) Viewed 164 times

The effective wavelength range of the instrument is limited in the red by the sensitivity of the detector and in the blue by the transmission properties of the glass used for the lenses. The filters were designed such that for a star of 10,000 K (average temperature for all BRITE target stars) both filters would generate the same amount of signal on the detector. The blue filter covers a wavelength range of 390-460 nm and the red filter 550-700 nm; both are assumed to have a maximum transmission of 95%.

This was at portal site..
BRITE-Ca_StarImage4.gif

https://directory.eoportal.org/web/eopo ... ite-canada
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is not 'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:20 pm

The question of what is visible in outer space can only be answered by astronauts in space. To say that because an instrument can see something does not mean humans can. The quantum efficiency of the eye vs the sensor is one thing, the other is the nature of the conscious perception of the events. It seems to me that it would not be surprising that astronauts will not be consciously aware of the photon flux from even the brighter supposed stars viewed from space, but if we can see them from Earth, then something is happening in the atmosphere to make them consciously identifiable.

Retinal and post-retinal contributions to the quantum efficiency of the human eye revealed by electrical neuroimaging
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3831599/

KAI-11002 CCD Image Sensor
http://www.onsemi.com/pub/Collateral/KAI-11002-D.PDF
In order to change an existing paradigm you do not struggle to try and change the problematic model. You create a new model and make the old one obsolete. -Buckminster Fuller
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby fosborn_ » Wed Dec 06, 2017 12:55 pm

GaryN...Retinal and post-retinal contributions to the quantum efficiency of the human eye revealed by electrical neuroimaging

I question the use of precetible flashes compared to steady stream of starlight. Not that that paper wasn't useful information.
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby GaryN » Tue Dec 12, 2017 1:46 pm

This should be interesting:
Researchers Create Techniques to Analyze Thousands of Hours of NASA Tape
Researchers at the Center for Robust Speech Systems (CRSS) in the Erik Jonsson School of Engineering and Computer Science (ECS) received a National Science Foundation grant in 2012 to develop speech-processing techniques to reconstruct and transform the massive archive of audio into Explore Apollo, a website that provides public access to the materials. The project, in collaboration with the University of Maryland, included audio from all of Apollo 11 and most of the Apollo 13, Apollo 1 and Gemini 8 missions.

https://www.laboratoryequipment.com/new ... -nasa-tape

The transcripts presently available are just awful, very time consuming and frustrating to try and make any sense of. I'd bet there are some very interesting and enlightening comments in there that could raise a lot of questions about just what was visible and when. Will anything be redacted?
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Re: The Boring Sun

Unread postby paulandme432 » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:08 pm

While I have not read all the posts on this thread yet, it seems that there is some interest in the probability of manufactured light on planet Earth. This is something I have been following for a few years and see it as a strong possibility.

How could this be verified or proved false. The Total Solar Eclipse seems like a good place to start.
If the atmosphere is creating light, then the TSE is likely to be disturbing this action.

The Black Disk of the Moon passes in front of the Sun. (Scientific fact !)
At the time of TSE the Moon is illuminated by Earthshine about 58 times brighter the a full Moon on Earth. The shadow on part of the Earth could be expected to reduce the Moon's illumination and reflected light somewhat, but a pitch black Moon is very unlikely.

The duration has a minimum of about 2 minutes and a max of about 8 mins. There must be a TSE which exactly matches the Sun and Moon sizes. This should produce a duration of possibly microseconds. A longer duration is only possible if the Earth's rotation has stopped and the Moon has stopped in it's orbit.

Shadow Bands seen on the ground just before and after Totality are “an atmospheric disturbance.” (Scientific fact !) Is it possible that the entire TSE is “an atmospheric disturbance.” I think so.

Baillie's Beads are always in the same place. The Sunlight peeping through nameless mountains and valleys should possibly move alignment from one Eclipse to another when viewed from widely varying latitudes. These beads appear to me to be continuous arcs created as the light is switched off at the start of Totality, and then switched back on at the finish of Totality.

The location of the Black Disk within the corona does not change during Totality. This is not possible. The corona should move from one side to the other, unless the corona is also an atmospheric disturbance.

My thoughts are that the Black Disk or Umbra we see is caused by the Moon's CORE blocking the Sun's field. The Penumbra is caused by the Sun's field being disturbed as it passes through the non core part of the Moon. This disturbance is at the point where atmospheric light creation would be at its most intense.
The Eclipse starts exactly on time, according to light from the Sun. But this light has a lag of about 8 minutes. It is historical. The field from the Sun, which is blocked by the core of the Moon, must be instantaneous or in real time. Therefore the Black Disk in the atmosphere would be offset, to or near the edge of the Moon's position. None of the Moon would be visible during the entire Eclipse, which appears to be an optical illusion created in the electrified area of the ionosphere.

If all this is correct, then there must be 2 light speeds. Our demonstrated and proven speed within the Solar System, and instantaneous field to field light transmission.

I am constantly searching for photos of the Moon during a TSE, taken from space to see if the Moon turns black. Never found any yet. From the ISS would be great. They take photos of the shadow on the ground, not above them. Also the Lunar Reconnaissance Orbiter. It is in a perfect location to show the Lunar surface illumination at New Moon, both when there is, and also when there is not a TSE. During the 2017 TSE across the USA the LRO was turned around to take photos of the shadow on Earth. Some photos of the Lunar surface would have cost nothing. Surely the operators would think to do this.

Perhaps you guys have seen something useful re the Moon during TSE, while searching for photos of the Sun. Needs to be in visible light.

If the Sun creates a large arc or “sun” in the ionosphere, at the point of nearest contact with the Sun's field, it should be visible from the ISS. Don't know what I caught here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35fx3aw0ts Probably just lens flare, but it is interesting the way it changes shape and intensity when encountering large cliffs in the cloud.
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