The Boring Sun

[GaryN]

Sun with sunspots and limb darkening as seen in visible light with solar filter.

The Sun exhibits limb darkening in a photograph taken from Earths surface. Being a black body, the Sun should show limb darkening, but as we have no photographs of the Sun from outside of Earths atmosphere, we can not say that it is not an effect of the atmosphere that is producing the darkening. Radio astronomy, going back to WW2 era, could not confirm the limb darkening due to the complexity of the experiments, some believe the darkening was detected, others said it may be diffraction in the Suns outer region, and that only the advent of instruments in space could answer the question with certainty. Well, there are no radio telescopes in space because they, like the optical telescopes, do not work outside of the atmosphere, so the question remains. If the limb darkening can not be shown from space, then the Sun is not a black body, and can not be assumed to be hot, or even warm.
In looking into the origin of water in the Universe I find that it is believed to be formed during the time when the young Sun was forming, when the hydrogen created in the re-ionisation phase of the Big Bang reacted with the oxygen which was produced in the early stars.

Scientists Just Discovered the Origins of Oxygen in the Universe

These oxygen atoms we found are a kind of the first oxygen ever produced in the Universe, because oxygen did not exist at the Big Bang. In fact, all elements heavier than lithium are produced inside stars and are spread out the Universe when they die,” Inoue told us. “And oxygen and other elements make up dust particles which eventually make up planets and possibly life on them. Therefore, our finding shows the origin of oxygen, one of the most important elements for humans, in this Universe.

http://gizmodo.com/scientists-just-disc ... 1782092592

So oxygen is "cooked up" by fusion in the stars, and if a star is large enough, it will spew it out into the Universe when it finishes its life in a supernova event, and that oxygen, along with all the other stuff, then is gravitationally drawn together again to create our solar system.

Well, I don't buy any of it. I have a hunch, by no means certain yet, that in the late 1960s and 70s, that the Naval Research boys, most appropriately, were actually looking for signs of water creation in the Sun, by looking for the IR emission signature of the exothermic event that produces water, or rather a nano-ice with a temperature of around 170K. It is possible that with this idea I may be even more "out to lunch" than believing that the Sun is not visible from clear space, but until I see solid scientific proof that the Sun emits any heat whatsoever, I'll believe the Sun is most likely creating water.

[seasmith]

The photosphere is the visible surface of the Sun that we are most familiar with. Since the Sun is a ball of gas, this is not a solid surface but is actually a layer about 100 km thick (very, very, thin compared to the 700,000 km radius of the Sun). When we look at the center of the disk of the Sun we look straight in and see somewhat hotter and brighter regions. When we look at the limb, or edge, of the solar disk we see light that has taken a slanting path through this layer and we only see through the upper, cooler and dimmer regions. This explains the "limb darkening" that appears as a darkening of the solar disk near the limb

https://solarscience.msfc.nasa.gov/surface.shtml

If one accepts that the creation of 'suns' in the cosmos is of an electrical "pinch" origin, along filamentary lines; then we are starting with an organization of, or coagulation of the most ephemeral form of matter- an aetheric substance.

All we see looking at the sun with Any detector is the next natural concentration of matter, being plasma. Very hot plasma at that, which means all those spectrographic interpretations are radiation 'white noise' until they are next filtered by the various surfical envelopes of the sun, space or earth. Then are produced some comparable emission/absorption lines and continuous spectra.

[I say "comparable" because the sun is not a "black body" in the scientific sense of the word. A black body is an Ideal body which would perfectly Absorb all the radiation that hits it, and then re-emits a characteristic spectrum, if at a Constant Temperature. The emission spectra of Radiant bodies are then compared to that ideal BB spectrum to try and match up patterns of frequency bands (there are no 'lines').
Also to try and figure what wavelengths were filter out on the way to the detector.]

So we can start with just hot plasma, which is all that is seen looking into a coronal hole, and as all this energy spews out in a torrent of electric and magnetic fields, more condensation occurs at various boundary states and temperatures, producing from the plasma/ion broth various atomic gases, liquids (waters), and neutral particles.

Others here have been making the point lately that the aetheric matrix, plasmas, water and electricity are all kissing cousins.
Welcome home.

[GaryN]

The photosphere is the visible surface of the Sun that we are most familiar with.

The image on that page is again from Earth. There is no proof that the Sun is visible from outside of Earths atmosphere. If you believe there is proof, I'd be interested to see it. Sunspots have never been photographed from the ISS, let alone deep space, and no ISS astronauts have ever mentioned seeing sunspots.

School kid asking an ISS astronaut by way of amateur radio:

Q. Are you able to see and measure sunspots from the International Space Station?
A: Crystal, can we measure sunspots from the ISS, and that's a good experiment to perform. Unfortunately today, I do not know why, we are not measuring them from the International Space station. Over

Not the right answer. He should have said "the Sun is too bright to be able to see sunspots", in which case they would need to use a filter, as we do from Earth. They don't, with good reason.

Also to try and figure what wavelengths were filter out on the way to the detector.

Or what wavelengths were created. The more I think about the proposal by Horace Winfield Webster that the light from the Sun starts out as gamma rays, the more I like it, and will work on trying to produce a credible model based on accepted scientific principles.

[moses]

Gary, I keep wondering about the rocks of the geological column and the asteroids being formed at the same time, by a huge electric current coming from the Sun going to Jupiter with the Earth in between. So possibly no other planet or moon involved. Then it is easy to get events spaced far enough apart for life to be flourishing between such events. Especially if the Sun got excited periodically. ( Say by planet X having a very elliptical orbit, or otherwise. )

So that would be pretty similar to your ideas, but of course then comes the trip from the asteroid belt, past Mars, into where Earth is now, and maybe Earth went even closer to the Sun producing evaporation and polar ice deposition (ice ages). But you might want to think about it.

Cheers,
Mo

[GaryN]

Mo, I agree with much of what you have said about the alteration of Earths surface by large magnitude EM forces, but "Then it is easy to get events spaced far enough apart for life to be flourishing between such events" I can not agree with, or how you see such events originating or progressing. But don't take my disagreement as in any way demeaning or insulting to yourself, as my own ideas are rather unconventional to most, such as humans having been created (likely more than once) by much more advanced entities, and that such entities are common in the Universe, or that many worlds are likely hollow (like the shellworlds in Iain M Banks' "Matter" novel), and that we are likely just the latest in a long line of experiments or labourers or even mere entertainment for those who created us. I just can not imagine evolution having had any chance at all, given the apparent magnitude and frequency of major Solar 'storms' that have decimated the surface of the Earth and other worlds.. Likely we will never know the real story of our origins, or the origins of our creators, but trying to figure out as much as we can about the science behind it all is, IMO, an interesting pursuit.
...
The claim of sunspots being monitored daily from the ISS, as mentioned previously, does not seem to be affirmed by anything I can find from NASA, though they do monitor the Suns spectral output, from the European Space Agency’s (ESA) Solar observatory on the External Payload Facility of the Columbus module.

Space Station Gets an Attitude Adjustment for Solar Science

The sun lightens our world and enlightens our scientists as they look to our closest star for a better understanding of solar activity and what it means for our planet. Unique data from solar studies help researchers build on their knowledge of the Earth’s atmosphere and climate change. June 30 marked the second time the International Space Station literally went out of its way to accommodate this research by providing a better viewing opportunity to meet Solar facility science objectives.

“The SOLAR detectors perform very accurate measurements of the sun's flux: they are measurements in absolute values. In other words, the real amount of flux emitted by the sun in physical units,” said Orr. “This may sound trivial but it is in fact quite difficult to achieve. Many detectors looking at the sun provide only measurements in relative units. On the other hand, absolute measurements are important in order to understand the amount of energy that the sun is emitting and that we receive at the Earth.

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/stat ... r_science/

There are no photographs of the Sun at visible wavelengths from the external platform as there is no camera installed there. A Belgian organisation, B.USOC, operates Solar and other experiments, but offers very little information about the results of such experiments. I can find nothing about the results of the experiments performed during the re-orientation of the ISS.

Solar energy input to the earth’s atmosphere and its variations are a major factor in the climate models and are accurately monitored only since the beginning of the space age.

http://www.busoc.be/
We can see a video of the SOLAR instrument pointing at the Sun, but not the Sun itself.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhRboPA ... e=youtu.be
But not a single photograph of the Sun from space with a filter equipped camera such as the Nikon D4 that they use for their PR shots.

Put a filter on the camera NASA, do some serious solar photography.

Data from the SORCE experiment is available, but again no actual photos of the Sun just their artists impression.
http://lasp.colorado.edu/home/sorce/

[willendure]

[moses]

Mo, I agree with much of what you have said about the alteration of Earths surface by large magnitude EM forces, but "Then it is easy to get events spaced far enough apart for life to be flourishing between such events" I can not agree with, or how you see such events originating or progressing.

I just can not imagine evolution having had any chance at all, given the apparent magnitude and frequency of major Solar 'storms' that have decimated the surface of the Earth and other worlds Gary

So we need to explain at least a few events of Solar outburst, and determine the possible or likely time periods between such events. Each Solar event being linked to geological extinction events, but maybe not to more recent events.

So if it is just a matter of getting enough electricity for a current to travel from the Sun to Jupiter when Earth is in conjunction. So as the electricity builds up there will come a time that little current flows between the Sun and Jupiter until the Earth comes between them and acts as a conductor. So we need to estimate how fast the electricity builds up and how often such build ups occur.

Galactic superwaves, planet X, invasions from outside the Solar System, supernovas, the Solar System travelling though plasma cells, etc. So I think there is plenty of scope for these electric extinction events to be thousands or millions of years apart. Actually making it a smaller time between these events is more dificult.

Perhaps you are referring to more recent events, but I do urge you to apply your ideas to much older events and estimate timings, etc.

...and that such entities are common in the Universe, or that many worlds are likely hollow. Gary

I feel that there are untold god-like beings in the Universe. Just what they do is unknown. Hollow planets looks very likely to me.
Cheers,
Mo

[GaryN]

So I think there is plenty of scope for these electric extinction events to be thousands or millions of years apart. Actually making it a smaller time between these events is more dificult.

Yes, much is unknown and likely unknowable with respect to past events, a large one would erase all evidence of past life. For the existing life on Earth to be so prolific means that conditions must have been stable for millions of years, or that life was re-established after the totally destructive events? The numerous legends telling of the survival of a man and woman after the flood suggest to me that, as the ancient Greeks told us (by way of the ancient Egyptians) that there have been many catastrophes, with many more to come, and that we were the fruit of a seed, a remnant of survivors, but this seed must have survived somewhere else than the surface of the Earth. Perhaps below ground as some legends tell, or high above Earth, as other legends tell. IMO, the Earth has never been stable enough for long enough for evolution to have been able to lead to the existence of creatures such as ourselves, who seem rapidly to be developing the kind of abilities once attributed only to the Gods. Including, sadly, the destructive capabilities.
...
willendure, in that photo you posted, how large do you think the (supposedly) visible outer layers of the Sun would appear if there were not the atmospheric and optical issues to contend with? The lens is a 12mm fish-eye.

[moses]

<Yes, much is unknown and likely unknowable with respect to past events, a large one would erase all evidence of past life. Gary>

If an event wiped out all life then an alien-involved start up might be possible, but one thinks as long as there was water involved there was always going to be survivors.

<For the existing life on Earth to be so prolific means that conditions must have been stable for millions of years, or that life was re-established after the totally destructive events? Gary>

Well having millions of years makes things easy. However extreme electrical events likely played havock with DNA. Of course gods could get involved here. It only matters when it comes to the timing of humanity. Was there millions of years since the last extinction-type event. So then humanity 'evolved'.

As electrical conditions lessened the Earth might have naturally been drawn closer to the Sun, so no particular catastrophe needed. So lots of evolution right up to 10,000 years ago, or so.

<The numerous legends telling of the survival of a man and woman after the flood suggest to me that, as the ancient Greeks told us (by way of the ancient Egyptians) that there have been many catastrophes, with many more to come, and that we were the fruit of a seed, a remnant of survivors, but this seed must have survived somewhere else than the surface of the Earth. Gary>

So here we venture into the more recent events, which could have been millions of years after the last extinction-type event. You are explaining these events by a similar electric current coming from the Sun to Earth, whereas I see the movement of the Earth from the asteroid belt to our present position, as likely being unstable in orbit, thus producing the ice ages in particular.

Were there gods or aliens involved in the production of humanity. Whether there was or there was not, makes no difference to my views about gods or aliens. However I am eager to find the trauma that our ancestors went through. That altered our present DNA epigenetics and so has great significance.
Cheers,
Mo

[GaryN]

Well Moses, I can not say your opinion on such matters is incorrect, and likely we will never reach a firm conclusion on the mysteries of the past. Very different to my present beliefs, which are that we were created, as the Bible tells us, but by physical Gods who looked very much like us. No evolution. Many past destructions, sometimes with no survivors except those selected to be the new seed. Aliens of different sorts probably exist, though I think they basically take a hands-off approach to humans,(who'd want us in a civilised universe?) though maybe they take a few for 'research' purposes. Don't believe in the collective trauma, people forget disasters quite quickly, and if anything affected our DNA, it was the Gods. The legends passed down explained what happened in terms understood by the newly minted humans so they would understand their origins, and be grateful to the Gods. Again though, we will likely never know for sure.
On a more serious note, maybe: Fake Science. We have all been hearing about fake news, but we really need to be calling out fake science too. Such as:
Astronomers discover 7 Earth-sized planets orbiting nearby star
http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/22/world/new ... very-nasa/
From NASA, we see the orbital periods of these, possible Earth-like planets.


What they are detecting here, again, are moons orbiting a planet. The planet has a 'hot' atmosphere in the electrical sense, any emissions from its envelope are not from thermal heat. 99.99999 % of the worlds population, and a great majority of astronomers and astrophysicists have no idea what NASA/ESA are up to or how the instruments used work, let alone how the programs that decode all the data work. NASA looking for more money, as usual, and resorting to some despicable fake science to do so. Harumph.

[moses]

<Don't believe in the collective trauma, people forget disasters quite quickly, and if anything affected our DNA, it was the Gods. GaryN>

Eating a strawberry causes some 200 changes to gene expression. It is known that such changes are often passed to one's children. There is more than god altering DNA, there are experiences altering gene expression too. And there are lots of ways to alter DNA or it's epigenetics.

<No evolution. Many past destructions, sometimes with no survivors except those selected to be the new seed.GaryN>

A long time, is a better explanation for the fossil variations. I always wanted a quick change but now my latest theory has oodles of time for fossil variation. But many past destructions, we can agree on that.

TRAPPIST-1 very likely to be planet-size and so the 'planets' would be moon-size, we can agree again.

Cheers,
Mo

[nick c]

Don't believe in the collective trauma, people forget disasters quite quickly,

Gary, I can see that you are not very much familiar with the theory of collective trauma, perhaps you need to research it more. You are correct, people do forget disasters(dis - aster = bad star) quickly.
But that is the whole point. They FORGET!

Though forgotten the horrible memories are still submerged in the mind and they eventually manifest themselves in bizarre and ritualistic behaviors. Victims of catastrophes (= Greek for overturning of the celestial order) are continually attempting to remember the source of their trauma. Yet the very words that describe the situation have the roots astro and aster that point us to the source of the trauma.

[Grey Cloud]

Nick,

Though forgotten the horrible memories are still submerged in the mind and they eventually manifest themselves in bizarre and ritualistic behaviors.

Evidence? And we are talking 'people' plural here not just an individual.
Subsequent generations, i.e. those not born at the time, would see the destruction around them and ask, surely? They would not in any case 'inherit' the trauma.

[fosborn_]

Grey cloud..
Check this article out;
https://newrepublic.com/article/120144/ ... -ptsd-kids

People who have been subject to repeated, centuries-long violence, such as African Americans and Native Americans, may by now have disadvantage baked into their very molecules. The sociologist Robert Merton spoke of the “Matthew Effect,” named after verse 25:29 of the Book of Matthew: “For unto every one that hath shall be given ... but from him that hath not shall be taken.” Billie Holiday put it even better: “Them that’s got shall have; them that’s not shall lose.”

But daunting as this research is to contemplate, it is also exciting. It could help solve one of the enduring mysteries of human inheritance: Why do some falter and others thrive? Why do some children reap the whirlwind, while other children don’t? If the intergenerational transmission of trauma can help scientists understand the mechanics of risk and resilience, they may be able to offer hope not just for individuals but also for entire communities as they struggle to cast off the shadow of the past.

[Grey Cloud]

fosborn,
Articles like that are just about some academic having his 15-mins of fame. You are where you live so if your parents constantly drill their problems into you then you will likely 'inherit' them. In other words, you aren't born with them, it's nurture not nature.
Millions of people in Europe went through some traumatic times during WW2. Once peace broke out the vast majority of them got on with their lives as best they could and the vast majority of their children grew up 'normal'.