So in a nutshelll... time is nothing other than motion and our perception of it
What is time?
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elijahblackwood
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Re: What is time?
Having started a new thread on time after a "buff" search resulted in zilch I feel rather stupid that this topic has been flogged to death on another thread
So in a nutshelll... time is nothing other than motion and our perception of it
So in a nutshelll... time is nothing other than motion and our perception of it
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bboyer
- Posts: 2410
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Re: What is time?
Good job, Elijah. 
There is something beyond our mind which abides in silence within our mind. It is the supreme mystery beyond thought. Let one's mind and one's subtle body rest upon that and not rest on anything else. [---][/---] Maitri Upanishad
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elijahblackwood
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Re: What is time?
I admit my input wasn't particularly good but pretty much everything has been covered by this thread. As bizarre as it is, when you look at time and see it for what it is not, you have to wonder how the standard understanding of time has lasted the test of time (no pun intended). Perhaps Velikovsky would've appreciated this type of amnesia, instead of forgetting about catastrophe's, we forget that there really is no such thing as time.
I have previously likened some of the more extreme beliefs that accompany religion to bizarre delusions, but doesn't time do to science what these extreme beliefs do to the church? If time is a perception of change, due to motion, why has it been allowed to masquerade as a dimension?
In order to perceive motion don't we need stillness. The only way I can describe this is to ask you to open your left palm and draw circles circles on it with your right index finger. If your left hand represents stillness and your right finger the object in motion, then movement can be perceived through changes to the surface of stillness.
Anyway, that's my waders filled to the brim.
I have previously likened some of the more extreme beliefs that accompany religion to bizarre delusions, but doesn't time do to science what these extreme beliefs do to the church? If time is a perception of change, due to motion, why has it been allowed to masquerade as a dimension?
In order to perceive motion don't we need stillness. The only way I can describe this is to ask you to open your left palm and draw circles circles on it with your right index finger. If your left hand represents stillness and your right finger the object in motion, then movement can be perceived through changes to the surface of stillness.
Anyway, that's my waders filled to the brim.
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simple simon
- Posts: 16
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Re: What is time?
How can you forget if there is no such thing as time? "A la recherche le temp perdu" as the geezer said.elijahblackwood wrote:.., instead of forgetting about catastrophe's, we forget that there really is no such thing as time...
Granted that the only moment that exists is this one, that the past and future do not exist. But (if you accept the concept of existence at all) then they either have or will exist.
Granted that time can be understood as, or fitted to a model of it being a only measure of movement. But if you say there is no time and that our perception of it is only a measure of movement, then by the same token there is no such thing as measure and there is no such thing as movement. The three terms cannot exist independently but can together, Maybe they are three aspects of a single thing. If "thing" exists of course
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StevenO
- Posts: 894
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Re: What is time?
I fully agree with arc-us signature: time is the perspective we get by putting ourselves as an 'observer' in this universe. It leads to an endless recursion we experience as the progression of time.
First, God decided he was lonely. Then it got out of hand. Now we have this mess called life...
The past is out of date. Start living your future. Align with your dreams. Now execute.
The past is out of date. Start living your future. Align with your dreams. Now execute.
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elijahblackwood
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Re: What is time?
Hi Simon
Forgetting time doesn’t really exist was a sweeping statement, I should’ve explained myself a bit better. A few years ago when I started exploring time to try and understand what it is I came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that it was a measurement of the changes in conditions, caused by motion. No motion, no change. Despite this apparent realisation that time doesn’t really exist in the way that I was taught to believe it does, i.e. in every day terms and in scientific terms, I still wake up in the morning and engage in life whilst incorporating the time that I know to be wrong. Do I do this because I choose to forget or because of ignorance. I don’t know?
The here and now moment that I wake up to each morning appears to be self evident, whether or not this moment is governed by the passage of time or has meaning because motion brings about change is up for debate I guess. For me, each moment exists because I am aware of it, or it comes into existence because I become aware of it. Past moments no longer exist because the conditions I was aware of have changed. However, the past and future do appear to exist as potentials; the past is limited potential, accessible via memory. The future is unbounded potential assessable via the medium of motion.
I say there is no time because what I regard as the passing of time is my perception of changing conditions. Time doesn’t age me; changes in the conditions of my physical body age me. For me, change can only come via motion, not because time is passing.
I agree to some extent when you say the three terms cannot exist independently, at least subjectively, although I would say that without perception, movement and measurement are meaningless anyway. On another note, the standard model says there is empty space between the Proton and the electron, but what is empty space. Can this space be described as a medium that is not in motion? Hence we get stillness of the medium and motion of the objects within it where both are unified by perception.
Just some thoughts.
Forgetting time doesn’t really exist was a sweeping statement, I should’ve explained myself a bit better. A few years ago when I started exploring time to try and understand what it is I came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly) that it was a measurement of the changes in conditions, caused by motion. No motion, no change. Despite this apparent realisation that time doesn’t really exist in the way that I was taught to believe it does, i.e. in every day terms and in scientific terms, I still wake up in the morning and engage in life whilst incorporating the time that I know to be wrong. Do I do this because I choose to forget or because of ignorance. I don’t know?
The here and now moment that I wake up to each morning appears to be self evident, whether or not this moment is governed by the passage of time or has meaning because motion brings about change is up for debate I guess. For me, each moment exists because I am aware of it, or it comes into existence because I become aware of it. Past moments no longer exist because the conditions I was aware of have changed. However, the past and future do appear to exist as potentials; the past is limited potential, accessible via memory. The future is unbounded potential assessable via the medium of motion.
I say there is no time because what I regard as the passing of time is my perception of changing conditions. Time doesn’t age me; changes in the conditions of my physical body age me. For me, change can only come via motion, not because time is passing.
I agree to some extent when you say the three terms cannot exist independently, at least subjectively, although I would say that without perception, movement and measurement are meaningless anyway. On another note, the standard model says there is empty space between the Proton and the electron, but what is empty space. Can this space be described as a medium that is not in motion? Hence we get stillness of the medium and motion of the objects within it where both are unified by perception.
Just some thoughts.
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whitenightf3
- Posts: 49
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Re: What is time?
We will only understand Time when we understand Mind.
Professor Paul Davies
The distinction between past, present, and future is
only an illusion, however persistent. Time is not at
all what it seems. It does not flow in only one direction,
and the future exist simultaneously with the past.
Albert Einstein
In a continuum the universe can only exist in the “present”.
The past ceases to be as the “present” moves on, and the
future cannot exist until the “present” catches up with it.
The reason for this is that in a continuum we consist of
the same particles - moment by moment.
Patrick Fitzmaurice
The most plausible explanation is that the Universe only
exists in a dynamic present and that our concept of time
lies purely in the reservoir of our memories and our hopes
for the future.
Patrick Fitzmaurice
Thought and time are inextricably linked.
Thomas Allen
The past, present and future are all properties of consciousness.
The past is recollection, memory; the future is anticipation; the present is awareness.
Therefore time is the movement of thought. Both past and future are born in the
imagination; only the present, which is awareness, is real and eternal.
The best way to prepare for any moment in the future is to be fully conscious in the
present.
Deepak Chopra
That which is timeless is found now.
The Buddha
Professor Paul Davies
The distinction between past, present, and future is
only an illusion, however persistent. Time is not at
all what it seems. It does not flow in only one direction,
and the future exist simultaneously with the past.
Albert Einstein
In a continuum the universe can only exist in the “present”.
The past ceases to be as the “present” moves on, and the
future cannot exist until the “present” catches up with it.
The reason for this is that in a continuum we consist of
the same particles - moment by moment.
Patrick Fitzmaurice
The most plausible explanation is that the Universe only
exists in a dynamic present and that our concept of time
lies purely in the reservoir of our memories and our hopes
for the future.
Patrick Fitzmaurice
Thought and time are inextricably linked.
Thomas Allen
The past, present and future are all properties of consciousness.
The past is recollection, memory; the future is anticipation; the present is awareness.
Therefore time is the movement of thought. Both past and future are born in the
imagination; only the present, which is awareness, is real and eternal.
The best way to prepare for any moment in the future is to be fully conscious in the
present.
Deepak Chopra
That which is timeless is found now.
The Buddha
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Influx
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:06 am
Re: What is time?
Okay, arise Lazarus.
The universe could care less about time and our limited systems of measuring the universe. That is, if it could care! We are, as humans, who die and are imperfect, are simple projecting our fears and shortcomings onto the cosmos and expect it to behave as such. Time is nothing more than an invention of the human condition and suffering. The universe has only movement of the celestial objects, a movement IN THE volume of space that can only be seen in relation to the celestial bodies that occupy that volume. There is NO inherent value or condition that can be linked to time in the structure of space. The illusion of time arises only in our minds due to the cyclical nature of objects that move in the volume of space. A volt meter measures volts that ARE present in the structure of the wire! The clock does NOT measure the "something" in the universe, but is rather an imaginary synchronization device made to organize our lives. Movement controls the universe not time!
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.
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vatek1
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Re: What is time?
Time....??? If we assume that time is a dimension of our universe, then we must also assume time has properties that are measurable by conventional instruments. If we examine most conventional instruments used for time, we must assume that time is a Wave or the rate of that wave, that being said we must assume it has a wave type configuration. This we all know is false, we can measure waveforms and count them as a function of time/rate. But who's time are we measuring it in? Time is but a perception of the observer, although useful in Measurements in Physics, time has but one function, which is the measure of velocity, waveforms or motion.
Otherwise, all things in Nature can be explained without a rate or velocity. Thus time is non-dimensional,except in the observers perception of it. If we were to freeze time in a frame or an instance, all things must stand still to the observer, but still have an effect on the observers sensory observation at that instance in their moment of that time. To a second Observer the event will be sensory perceived totally different from the first observer, due to his frame, or his perception of when it was received.
Time is a convenient method of measuring a wavefront or movement of an object traveling through a medium. It is only based on a standard created by man, through the motions of our celestial sphere and minor divisions of those celestial event, BY THE OBSERVER!!! Time was and is a perceptual invention of the Sciences that require it as a measure of rate, but based fictitiously on a man made standard maintained IN BOULDER, COLORADO. Supposedly, we are to believe that due to an Atomic clock in NIST, that a unknown and unproven dimension is called Time and is accurate to the millisecond!
When more simply put by many observers, it is but an instance observed momentarily by an individual standing in a Universe that is not governed by Human perception, but governed by electrical properties, which are not governed by Time. Electrical phenomenon is not measured in time and no Electrical formulas require time, to be proven true(except sinusoidal wave fronts). Space/Time is but an invention of Relativists to substantiate unprovable theorems and to justify distance and velocities in Red and Blue shift dreams. When the truth is told Time is an invention of man's perceptions of the passage of a minute, a second, or a millisecond. I emphasize MANS PERCEPTION, because we all know that we all perceive the passage of time totally different from individual to individual.
a laypersons interpretation,
Forrest
Otherwise, all things in Nature can be explained without a rate or velocity. Thus time is non-dimensional,except in the observers perception of it. If we were to freeze time in a frame or an instance, all things must stand still to the observer, but still have an effect on the observers sensory observation at that instance in their moment of that time. To a second Observer the event will be sensory perceived totally different from the first observer, due to his frame, or his perception of when it was received.
Time is a convenient method of measuring a wavefront or movement of an object traveling through a medium. It is only based on a standard created by man, through the motions of our celestial sphere and minor divisions of those celestial event, BY THE OBSERVER!!! Time was and is a perceptual invention of the Sciences that require it as a measure of rate, but based fictitiously on a man made standard maintained IN BOULDER, COLORADO. Supposedly, we are to believe that due to an Atomic clock in NIST, that a unknown and unproven dimension is called Time and is accurate to the millisecond!
When more simply put by many observers, it is but an instance observed momentarily by an individual standing in a Universe that is not governed by Human perception, but governed by electrical properties, which are not governed by Time. Electrical phenomenon is not measured in time and no Electrical formulas require time, to be proven true(except sinusoidal wave fronts). Space/Time is but an invention of Relativists to substantiate unprovable theorems and to justify distance and velocities in Red and Blue shift dreams. When the truth is told Time is an invention of man's perceptions of the passage of a minute, a second, or a millisecond. I emphasize MANS PERCEPTION, because we all know that we all perceive the passage of time totally different from individual to individual.
a laypersons interpretation,
Forrest
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Influx
- Posts: 341
- Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 1:06 am
Re: What is time?
HI vatek1.
Other than that, time has been flogged to death at this forum.
If you mean time is a measurement of motion and is a concept created by men, then I agree with you.vatek1 wrote: ...It is only based on a standard created by man...
Other than that, time has been flogged to death at this forum.
Today is the yesterday of tomorrow.
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moses
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Re: What is time?
Consider a page in a book represents the universe. Thus the next page is the universe a moment later. Now the first issue is whether the universe on page 1 is totally dematerialised when page 2 is created. We think that this is the case because light seems not to be produced by page 1 when page 2 is created.
Now a sensor, the retina, on page 23 receives light emitted from many pages depending upon the distance of the light source. Can page 1 transmit light when we are on page 23. This is effectively changing the past. This would mean that the past is not destroyed but persists. It opens the possibility that all the future exists now. Thus all is fated but perhaps the past and the future can be changed.
Another possibility with a persisting past is that there is a resonance emitted at a much greater speed than the speed of light, such that events in the past can cause resonance now.
Psychological time involves experiencing when nerve impulses from the retina travel to somewhere in the brain and cause the induction of experiencing. Through either the comparison of experiencing or the nerve impulses the sense of time elapsing is produced. But experiencing need not respond to just the nerve impulses on page 23, experiencing might well respond to the nerve impulses of page 7, say. Thus one could have experiencing of the past, which would be different to having the stored memory produce nerve impulses which induce experiencing. And in the process of experiencing responding to past nerve impulses there is the possibility of experiencing producing nerve impulses in the past and thus changing the past, mainly in healing as in psychiatric reliving therapy.
Mo
Now a sensor, the retina, on page 23 receives light emitted from many pages depending upon the distance of the light source. Can page 1 transmit light when we are on page 23. This is effectively changing the past. This would mean that the past is not destroyed but persists. It opens the possibility that all the future exists now. Thus all is fated but perhaps the past and the future can be changed.
Another possibility with a persisting past is that there is a resonance emitted at a much greater speed than the speed of light, such that events in the past can cause resonance now.
Psychological time involves experiencing when nerve impulses from the retina travel to somewhere in the brain and cause the induction of experiencing. Through either the comparison of experiencing or the nerve impulses the sense of time elapsing is produced. But experiencing need not respond to just the nerve impulses on page 23, experiencing might well respond to the nerve impulses of page 7, say. Thus one could have experiencing of the past, which would be different to having the stored memory produce nerve impulses which induce experiencing. And in the process of experiencing responding to past nerve impulses there is the possibility of experiencing producing nerve impulses in the past and thus changing the past, mainly in healing as in psychiatric reliving therapy.
Mo
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moses
- Posts: 1111
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Re: What is time?
Consider again that a page in a book represents the universe at a particular moment. Consider the translation of a nerve impulse into experiencing. It takes physical time for the nerve pulse to pass through the translating region. So the experiencing induced is not instantaneous, so therefore the experiencing produced reads a section of time and the changes in the e/m field induce that experiencing.
Speed up the changes in the e/m field then the experiencing may become distorted rather than produce a sensation of things happening faster. Yet in dramatic situations there occurs the experiencing of the slowing down of events. This occurs so fast that it is doubtful that there is enough time for physiological processes to occur that might effect the speed of nerve impulses. So it seems that the same speed of nerve impulses are occurring yet the experiencing is different. It is as if experiencing has realised that things are dramatic and has responded somehow. This may not be correct, but it allows one to the possibility that experiencing is a separate entity to the physical body, and experiencing can have abilities, and then even further that experiencing can change the nerve impulses, or even create new ones. The possibilities are then mind-blowing.
Mo
Speed up the changes in the e/m field then the experiencing may become distorted rather than produce a sensation of things happening faster. Yet in dramatic situations there occurs the experiencing of the slowing down of events. This occurs so fast that it is doubtful that there is enough time for physiological processes to occur that might effect the speed of nerve impulses. So it seems that the same speed of nerve impulses are occurring yet the experiencing is different. It is as if experiencing has realised that things are dramatic and has responded somehow. This may not be correct, but it allows one to the possibility that experiencing is a separate entity to the physical body, and experiencing can have abilities, and then even further that experiencing can change the nerve impulses, or even create new ones. The possibilities are then mind-blowing.
Mo
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Rockgod30
- Posts: 13
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Re: What is time?
TIME
TIME is an aspect of the Universe that is infinite. While TIME is not nothing, it might as well be since TIME has no properties to act ON. There is no mechanism, thread, string, or anything for MATTER to act ON what we call Universal TIME.
MATTER can act IN time. MATTER or us, since we are made of MATTER, needs Intelligence to measure TIME.
We can persceive subjectively TIME moving faster or slower. TIME can not be dilated, slowed, bent, breached or broken by MATTER since there is nothing for MATTER to act ON to change TIME.
Even if Black Holes existed or another infinite power source there is nothing for MATTER act on to change time.
What is TIME?
TIME is a measureable, observable aspect of the UNIVERSE that has ALWAYS BEEN, ALWAYS IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE. Sounds like God, I know, yet TIME is not God.
There are THREE aspects of the UNIVERSE.
SPACE
TIME
MATTER
They all make up the UNIVERSE and we are in ONE universe.
SPACE is literally NOTHING. Neutrinos, particles, aether, or any other subtron, electron, or form of MATTER is NOT SPACE. SPACE is INFINITE extending in all directions. There is no end or beginning to SPACE. Just like TIME, SPACE has no mechanism, string, thread, or anything for MATTER to act ON the nothing of SPACE.
How can nothing be something?
Well both TIME and SPACE are not nothing in that they are not describable, they can be described.
SPACE IS AREA EXTENDING IN ALL DIRECTIONS TO INFINITY.
TIME IS THE MEASURABLE LINE THAT IS CONSISTANT AT ALL POINTS IN SPACE THAT EXTENDS FROM INFINITY TO INFINITY yet the problem is unlike MATTER they have no properties such as MATTER.
Pick a point. Any point in the UNIVERSE. From that point as a person of intelligence you would see SPACE extend to infinity in ANY direction.
TIME is UNIVERSAL.
We have twins now adults at age 20 or in other words two adults that are twins.
We take TWIN A and put him in the Andromeda Galaxy on an Earth like planet instantanously on January 1st, 2013 and leave TWIN B on Earth. Even if the other Earth had a longer day, let's say 38 hours instead of 24 like on Earth, on December 31st, 2015 they would be the same age. A second is a second. No TIME dilation, distortion, or difference because TWIN A or B are IN any point in SPACE.
TIME in the Andromeda Galaxy is the same as TIME in the Milky Way.
TIME is the SAME at any point in the infinity of SPACE since TIME is also INFINITE.
Even though it can take years for light to travel to Earth, TIME as we measure it here, would be the same anywhere in the INFINITY of SPACE. Now there are different rotation speeds of planets, revolutions and orbits yet again a second is a second since TIME is an aspect of the UNIVERSE that MATTER can not influence ONLY measure just like SPACE.
To give you a better understanding of what I am talking about. Let's remove all MATTER in the UNIVERSE except you. Now for the sake of the thought experiment you are alive and intelligent. You comprehend you are suspended in SPACE. There is nothing to act ON so you just hang there. There is NO Gravity and there might as well be nothing. Since there would be no light, again for the sake of the experiment you can see all MATTER which is you. There are TWO aspects of the UNIVERSE as MATTER that you can MEASURE.
FIRST is SPACE.
It extends in all direction to infinity yet from your prespective the UNIVERSE might as well be a millimeter beyond your fingertips. With no MATTER in the Universe there is nothing for you to act ON. Now because you have intelligence you can measure SPACE from the point you are at by the length of your arm, leg, or body.
SECOND is TIME.
(Bad Pun intentional)
Still suspended in the UNIVERSE without MATTER except you there is another aspect of the Universe that can be measured. TIME. A second is a second. Even if we replaced you with a grain of sand with no intelligence as the only MATTER in the Universe TIME is TIME, SPACE is SPACE and the only MATTER a grain of sand still exsists IN SPACE and TIME.
Now to give you other abilities. Changing out the grain of sand for you again you now are able to move around SPACE. There is still no MATTER for you to act on so we will say you can will yourself to move like you are flying. The Universe from your perception still might as well be a millimeter from your skin. How do you know you are moving?
You don't need shoes in a Universe of no MATTER except you, so take off your right shoe. The shoe will appear to float. There is gravity, a small amount in the shoe and the rest of your body. I am sure if you stayed still long enough the effects would pull the shoe toward you. However this is not about gravity, it is about SPACE. So leaving your right shoe there you pick a direction and fly away from the shoe. Again you can see all MATTER so you move lets say about a mile away. The UNIVERSE has EXPANDED from your perception to one mile and a millimeter. The truth is SPACE is infinite. Now take off your left shoe.
There is now a LINE from the right shoe to the left shoe in SPACE.
TIME is TIME. A second is a second.
So even if you moved a mile away from both shoes TIME still passes. Both TIME and SPACE exsist. They existed before we put you in the Universe with MATTER removed and would exist after if you ceased to function in your motal body after 100 years. Yet while they exist there is NOTHING you can do to change, manipulate, break, breach or do anything to TIME or SPACE.
The only thing you can act ON is other MATTER like your shoes.
Even if you were given infinite power of gravity, electricity, electromagnetism, magnetism, or any other material force you can not do ANYTHING to SPACE or TIME.
Is TIME nothing? NO. However it might as well be nothing since it is not something to act ON, only act IN.
TIME has no material like MATTER.
So even with INFINITE power TIME IS TIME. Let's now give you 1 million years of life. A million years will pass until your mortal body ends because of thermodynamic forces of entropy.
Now here is where the INFINITY of SPACE comes in. You decide after half a million years you don't like looking at your right and left shoe anymore so you fly away from them. Miles and miles, light years in distance. Again because you can perceive all MATTER in the Universe you see them still, but they are tiny specks like dust to where the nothingness of SPACE lets you barely even know they are there unless you remember where to look and assuming you flew in straight like away from the shoes.
Now you can go in one direction or any direction away from your shoes and if you keep going that direction you will NEVER curve back around or be near your shoes again. SPACE does not curve, bend, fold, or anything. Now TIME passes the same where the shoes are and where you are in SPACE. Even if you instantly returned to your shoes TIME is TIME and would be the same no matter where you are in SPACE.
Now MATTER is infinite just like SPACE and TIME. Even if entropy eventual broke down your body after a billion years into heat energy disappated over the UNIVERSE without MATTER other that you the MATTER would still exist since MATTER can be neither created or destroyed. It can only be organized or reorganized.
Entropy or Thermodynamic will not allow your body to reintagrate into you. Gravity might lump what is left of you together in one mass, your shoes left behind might have eventually attracted together and after breaking down formed a smaller mass.
Yet TIME and SPACE are infinite and will go on in INFINITY with the MATTER that made up you even when you no longer have intelligence to comprehend the passage of TIME or measure SPACE.
However there is good news. MATTER is infinite as well and fills IN the infinite vastness of SPACE and exists IN measureable TIME. MATTER can not be created or destroyed, but it can be organized or reorganized.
MATTER or MATTER coupled with intelligence can measure TIME and SPACE. MATTER is SOMETHING, TIME and SPACE are NOTHING except aspects of the UNIVERSE. SPACE can not act ON time either. TIME can not act ON matter as well. TIME does not cause Entropy, that is a function of MATTER.
I hope from my logic and thought experiment we can come to a greater understanding of what TIME is.
TIME is like SPACE.
It can be measured by MATTER and comprehended by intelligence.
TIME is an aspect of the Universe with no properties to act on, only IN.
TIME is INFINITE and the same at ALL points in SPACE.
I could go on, but I think this is good to start with.
~Rockgod30
TIME is an aspect of the Universe that is infinite. While TIME is not nothing, it might as well be since TIME has no properties to act ON. There is no mechanism, thread, string, or anything for MATTER to act ON what we call Universal TIME.
MATTER can act IN time. MATTER or us, since we are made of MATTER, needs Intelligence to measure TIME.
We can persceive subjectively TIME moving faster or slower. TIME can not be dilated, slowed, bent, breached or broken by MATTER since there is nothing for MATTER to act ON to change TIME.
Even if Black Holes existed or another infinite power source there is nothing for MATTER act on to change time.
What is TIME?
TIME is a measureable, observable aspect of the UNIVERSE that has ALWAYS BEEN, ALWAYS IS, and ALWAYS WILL BE. Sounds like God, I know, yet TIME is not God.
There are THREE aspects of the UNIVERSE.
SPACE
TIME
MATTER
They all make up the UNIVERSE and we are in ONE universe.
SPACE is literally NOTHING. Neutrinos, particles, aether, or any other subtron, electron, or form of MATTER is NOT SPACE. SPACE is INFINITE extending in all directions. There is no end or beginning to SPACE. Just like TIME, SPACE has no mechanism, string, thread, or anything for MATTER to act ON the nothing of SPACE.
How can nothing be something?
Well both TIME and SPACE are not nothing in that they are not describable, they can be described.
SPACE IS AREA EXTENDING IN ALL DIRECTIONS TO INFINITY.
TIME IS THE MEASURABLE LINE THAT IS CONSISTANT AT ALL POINTS IN SPACE THAT EXTENDS FROM INFINITY TO INFINITY yet the problem is unlike MATTER they have no properties such as MATTER.
Pick a point. Any point in the UNIVERSE. From that point as a person of intelligence you would see SPACE extend to infinity in ANY direction.
TIME is UNIVERSAL.
We have twins now adults at age 20 or in other words two adults that are twins.
We take TWIN A and put him in the Andromeda Galaxy on an Earth like planet instantanously on January 1st, 2013 and leave TWIN B on Earth. Even if the other Earth had a longer day, let's say 38 hours instead of 24 like on Earth, on December 31st, 2015 they would be the same age. A second is a second. No TIME dilation, distortion, or difference because TWIN A or B are IN any point in SPACE.
TIME in the Andromeda Galaxy is the same as TIME in the Milky Way.
TIME is the SAME at any point in the infinity of SPACE since TIME is also INFINITE.
Even though it can take years for light to travel to Earth, TIME as we measure it here, would be the same anywhere in the INFINITY of SPACE. Now there are different rotation speeds of planets, revolutions and orbits yet again a second is a second since TIME is an aspect of the UNIVERSE that MATTER can not influence ONLY measure just like SPACE.
To give you a better understanding of what I am talking about. Let's remove all MATTER in the UNIVERSE except you. Now for the sake of the thought experiment you are alive and intelligent. You comprehend you are suspended in SPACE. There is nothing to act ON so you just hang there. There is NO Gravity and there might as well be nothing. Since there would be no light, again for the sake of the experiment you can see all MATTER which is you. There are TWO aspects of the UNIVERSE as MATTER that you can MEASURE.
FIRST is SPACE.
It extends in all direction to infinity yet from your prespective the UNIVERSE might as well be a millimeter beyond your fingertips. With no MATTER in the Universe there is nothing for you to act ON. Now because you have intelligence you can measure SPACE from the point you are at by the length of your arm, leg, or body.
SECOND is TIME.
(Bad Pun intentional)
Still suspended in the UNIVERSE without MATTER except you there is another aspect of the Universe that can be measured. TIME. A second is a second. Even if we replaced you with a grain of sand with no intelligence as the only MATTER in the Universe TIME is TIME, SPACE is SPACE and the only MATTER a grain of sand still exsists IN SPACE and TIME.
Now to give you other abilities. Changing out the grain of sand for you again you now are able to move around SPACE. There is still no MATTER for you to act on so we will say you can will yourself to move like you are flying. The Universe from your perception still might as well be a millimeter from your skin. How do you know you are moving?
You don't need shoes in a Universe of no MATTER except you, so take off your right shoe. The shoe will appear to float. There is gravity, a small amount in the shoe and the rest of your body. I am sure if you stayed still long enough the effects would pull the shoe toward you. However this is not about gravity, it is about SPACE. So leaving your right shoe there you pick a direction and fly away from the shoe. Again you can see all MATTER so you move lets say about a mile away. The UNIVERSE has EXPANDED from your perception to one mile and a millimeter. The truth is SPACE is infinite. Now take off your left shoe.
There is now a LINE from the right shoe to the left shoe in SPACE.
TIME is TIME. A second is a second.
So even if you moved a mile away from both shoes TIME still passes. Both TIME and SPACE exsist. They existed before we put you in the Universe with MATTER removed and would exist after if you ceased to function in your motal body after 100 years. Yet while they exist there is NOTHING you can do to change, manipulate, break, breach or do anything to TIME or SPACE.
The only thing you can act ON is other MATTER like your shoes.
Even if you were given infinite power of gravity, electricity, electromagnetism, magnetism, or any other material force you can not do ANYTHING to SPACE or TIME.
Is TIME nothing? NO. However it might as well be nothing since it is not something to act ON, only act IN.
TIME has no material like MATTER.
So even with INFINITE power TIME IS TIME. Let's now give you 1 million years of life. A million years will pass until your mortal body ends because of thermodynamic forces of entropy.
Now here is where the INFINITY of SPACE comes in. You decide after half a million years you don't like looking at your right and left shoe anymore so you fly away from them. Miles and miles, light years in distance. Again because you can perceive all MATTER in the Universe you see them still, but they are tiny specks like dust to where the nothingness of SPACE lets you barely even know they are there unless you remember where to look and assuming you flew in straight like away from the shoes.
Now you can go in one direction or any direction away from your shoes and if you keep going that direction you will NEVER curve back around or be near your shoes again. SPACE does not curve, bend, fold, or anything. Now TIME passes the same where the shoes are and where you are in SPACE. Even if you instantly returned to your shoes TIME is TIME and would be the same no matter where you are in SPACE.
Now MATTER is infinite just like SPACE and TIME. Even if entropy eventual broke down your body after a billion years into heat energy disappated over the UNIVERSE without MATTER other that you the MATTER would still exist since MATTER can be neither created or destroyed. It can only be organized or reorganized.
Entropy or Thermodynamic will not allow your body to reintagrate into you. Gravity might lump what is left of you together in one mass, your shoes left behind might have eventually attracted together and after breaking down formed a smaller mass.
Yet TIME and SPACE are infinite and will go on in INFINITY with the MATTER that made up you even when you no longer have intelligence to comprehend the passage of TIME or measure SPACE.
However there is good news. MATTER is infinite as well and fills IN the infinite vastness of SPACE and exists IN measureable TIME. MATTER can not be created or destroyed, but it can be organized or reorganized.
MATTER or MATTER coupled with intelligence can measure TIME and SPACE. MATTER is SOMETHING, TIME and SPACE are NOTHING except aspects of the UNIVERSE. SPACE can not act ON time either. TIME can not act ON matter as well. TIME does not cause Entropy, that is a function of MATTER.
I hope from my logic and thought experiment we can come to a greater understanding of what TIME is.
TIME is like SPACE.
It can be measured by MATTER and comprehended by intelligence.
TIME is an aspect of the Universe with no properties to act on, only IN.
TIME is INFINITE and the same at ALL points in SPACE.
I could go on, but I think this is good to start with.
~Rockgod30
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sjw40364
- Guest
Re: What is time?
Time is distance. In order to do the calculation d/t the two must be related, one cannot divide two unrelated things. Miles puts it much better than I can.
http://milesmathis.com/time.html
http://milesmathis.com/time.html
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Goldminer
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:08 pm
Re: What is time?
You state: "One cannot divide two unrelated things." Well, we do. Both distance and time are divided into portions or segments. When we divide the number of distance segments by the number of time segments, we call it velocity. The "per" in "miles per hour" means we have divided one unrelated thing into another thing, and thereby related them!sjw40364 wrote:Time is distance. In order to do the calculation d/t the two must be related, one cannot divide two unrelated things. Miles puts it much better than I can.
http://milesmathis.com/time.html
Time is what keeps everything from happening all in one instant. Distance is what keeps everything from happening all in one place. Time is not distance, however we can combine the two, and we do: for example light travels about a foot per nanosecond. A light nanosecond can represent both a measured distance and a duration of time by the same set of coordinates on a coordinate system. In fact this is the space/time continuum that Einsteinians have conflated. They confuse motion with location.
Combining is different than relating.
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I sense a disturbance in the farce.
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