Universe Consists of Consciousness

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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mague
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by mague » Fri Jul 23, 2010 11:44 pm

Lloyd wrote:PERCEPTIONS ETC
The scientific methods remain.

If an astrophysicist observes a crack in the cosmos, he first has to check the lens of the telescope, 2nd he has to see a doctor to check his eyes. If neither the lens nor the eye has a crack, then there might be a crack in the cosmos.

You can apply this analogous to the perception of consciousness.

General
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by General » Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:59 pm

If an astrophysicist observes a crack in the cosmos, he first has to check the lens of the telescope, 2nd he has to see a doctor to check his eyes. If neither the lens nor the eye has a crack, then there might be a crack in the cosmos.
Yeh the astrophysicist!! lol.. In truth its not as simple as that (sorry to be picky :) ), if the astrophysicists perceives an 'apparent' crack in the cosmos he should as you rightly say check the lens of the telescope, but if he examines his eyes he should also examine his mental state and discerning abilities, but how can he achieve this 'convincingly' without bias? Ok, lets say that the doctor is capable of mental examinations and the astrophysicist is found not to be mad and both persons are 'convinced' that the astrophysicist eye is healthy and also that the telescope is free of any faults.. So what happened then, why did the astrophysicist perceive an 'apparent' crack in the cosmos, was he deluded for a moment or was/is there a crack in the cosmos?! Who knows unless another person or two can verify it and even then who's to say that they and the doctor are correct too or whether or not the astrophysicist is actually viewing cracks?! lol.. At a BASIC level perception, therefore consciousness requires individuality and some form of perception (obviously you say :)), but discerning the truth however probably needs more than one person who can say with all certainty with evidence that seems to fit the perception; that this is happening because I can "see" it (I use this term loosely as you can "see" with your nose too it just depends what you're sniffing.. if you get my drift lol) and here is the proof by the effects which I can also perceive. By now you should be realising that is not really what you "see" that matters rather its what you believe, because from two people "seeing" the same thing two different conclusions can be drawn and funnily enough both can be "right" or at least "truthful" as that is what they honestly saw/perceived. If you've ever watched the matrix you'll notice that what they believed becomes their reality (to an extent), some rules could be broken others could be bent, but to do any of this someone had to tell him (Neo in this case) that it was possible but only when he believed was it made possible. If in our 'real' world which is really a matrix and is made up of tiny electrical particles governed by laws we do not fully understand and these directly influence our daily lives, I.e. they make up our individual reality and beliefs daily.. then why is not possible to bend these particles and laws to what we believe and to our own reality?? I believe it is possible and we do it every day, all the furniture we have has been shaped to our reality by the use of intermediary tools and our consciousness, but what if the intermediary tool in the astrophysicists case was the telescope?! (this beggars the question if an intermediary tool is actually really needed what if you just believed and it happened because you shaped your reality with your consciousness??) Now there's a real problem because if this so called crack in the cosmos has become "real" in the astrophysicists reality and the effects are felt by those other than himself, then this poses one heck of a morality issue.. Seems like the 10 commandments are in order :D !

Lloyd
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 5:48 pm

* Seems true that the consciousness that we call electrons and subtrons etc might be influenceable by us to a growing extent as we mature in consciousness, but the universal consciousness would seem to have the greatest "influence", since all consciousness belongs to UC = universal consciousness.

Lloyd
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by Lloyd » Sun Jul 25, 2010 6:06 pm

* I watched the video that Allyn suggested earlier about consciousness and I took the following notes, which are paraphrases of the speaker, plus some of my comments in brackets.
Consciousness cannot be measured.
[My reply: I can't readily measure other people's consciousness, but I can measure my own and others can likely measure their own consciousness. And we can share with each other the results of our measurements.]

Mind = Perception; Sensation; Intuitions; Feelings; Emotions; Memory; Imagination; mind: Thinking; Planning.
[I have it somewhat differently and I include the Subconscious as part of our consciousness that we don't normally access.]

Science is predictive, but it can't predict experience [= consciousness].

An easy problem is what happens in the brain when a feeling occurs, for example.

The hard problem is understanding how the brain events give rise to [conscious] experience.
How does immaterial consciousness arise from material non-consciousness?
It's not actually hard; it's impossible.

We're stuck in the wrong paradigm that matter is unconscious.

Progress involves ignoring, then explaining away, observation of an anomaly.
A metaparadigm is a paradigm behind all paradigms.

Current science says matter, space and time are the real world.
Consciousness is an anomaly for current science.
Consciousness is more fundamental than matter, space and time.

Does consciousness depend on a nervous system, or does a nervous system just bring consciousness into focus?

Consciousness is in everything.
And everything is in consciousness.

Contents of consciousness has evolved, though consciousness hasn't, because it's always been.
All we ever know is in the mind.

Exterior world is nothing like what we expect or perceive.
Blue doesn't exist in the exterior.
Light reflected from the exterior into our eyes triggers certain receptors, but the receptors aren't blue. Blue is only a quality of the mind.
[I think the exterior world IS rather like what we perceive. Take shapes for example. We see and feel them. And I think they exist outside more or less just as they seem here in the "inside".]

Sound and music are vibrations and not the quality perceived in the mind.
[But the vibrations are recorded on our senses as sound or color or heat etc.]

Matter was thought to be solid, but was found to be composed of atoms, which are composed of subatomic particles, which are composed of [subtrons or something]. Everything between particles is empty space. The same is true within particles.
[Empty except for "fields".]
Matter isn't made of matter [but space].

What if there's nothing in the objective world [nothing but consciousness]?

Everything is consciousness, which is structured.

Our consciousness observes the external conscious field and creates perceptions in the mind.

Space, time and matter exist as a gross manifestation.

Consciousness starts out as little knots as in the vacuum of space.

Consciousness observes itself.

Variations within the consciousness field are perceptions.

The material world is the appearance in the mind.

There is nothing in the external world [except consciousness in the form of space, time, mass etc].

Matter derives from mind.
There's no matter and also no space or time.

Relativity found that the speed of light is the same regardless of whether we're stationary are moving even at relativistic speed.
If we travel at 9/10ths of lightspeed, light still goes past at lightspeed.
Space and time are not fixed, but vary with the speed of the observer.
A stationary observer sees light go by at 186,000 mi/sec.
Someone going 87% of lightspeed sees half the distance and half the time, so the speed is the same.
Someone going 99.5% of lightspeed sees a tenth the distance and time, with the speed being the same.
Space and time are a space-time continuum in which [something] never changes.
From light's perspective light itself doesn't move.
Birth and death of a photon occur at the same time.
For light there is no space, no time, no mass.
C is not speed of light, but a constant ratio of space and time.
For every 186,000 miles of space that is observed, one second of time is observed.
Light comes in packets of action (not energy) called quanta. Action = ML^2/t = energy x time.
Action is the first manifestation of a photon.
C is the ratio of the manifestation of space and time.

Pure consciousness of mystics is like light with no space, time, or mass.
Whereas an observes sees light emitted and absorbed, light sees no space or time, just transmission of action from one point to another adjacent point.
Light is neither wave nor particle, because it doesn't go anywhere.

The external world of consciousness is just perturbations of consciousness, which our consciousnesses interpret as space, time etc.
Light is the first manifestation of the absolute [universal consciousness].

Grey Cloud
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Sun Jul 25, 2010 7:06 pm

Hi Lloyd,
There is nothing new in any of that, except the parts that are wrong. :) Just another modern expert re-inventing the wheel. :roll:
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

elijahblackwood
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by elijahblackwood » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:06 am

If Universe is Consciousness then we as human beings could be its many points of self-awareness. Without self awareness, consciousness has no way of experiencing itself for what it is, i.e. Universal. It seems that a meaningful experience of consciousness hinges on self-awareness, or the ability to recognise one's place in consciousness. No self-awareness leaves us with no idea that one is conscious. When under general anaesthesia one remains conscious but has no self-awareness, therefore there is no meaningful conscious experience, simply consciousness. When a fighter is punched unconscious there is no awareness of consciousness.

This leaves me with a curious thought. Is Self-awareness the result of consciousness operating at a particular power frequency? If we reduce the frequency (perhaps anaethesia) then self-awareness fades away because there is not enough power to "light up" the Conscious experience and thus be aware of it. In the case of the fighter knocked unconscious the disruption caused by the brain wobbling causes something similar to when we see our living room lights flickering on and off due to a surge or disruption in power?

(Edit) Concussion was the word I was looking for. A serious case of concussion leaves a person experiencing intermittent conscious awareness which can leave you disorientated etc

mague
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by mague » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:38 am

elijahblackwood wrote:
This leaves me with a curious thought. Is Self-awareness the result of consciousness operating at a particular power frequency? If we reduce the frequency (perhaps anaethesia) then self-awareness fades away because there is not enough power to "light up" the Conscious experience and thus be aware of it. In the case of the fighter knocked unconscious the disruption caused by the brain wobbling causes something similar to when we see our living room lights flickering on and off due to a surge or disruption in power?

(Edit) Concussion was the word I was looking for. A serious case of concussion leaves a person experiencing intermittent conscious awareness which can leave you disorientated etc
I think it is valid to say there is a lower band and a higher band of consciousness. But it seems consciousness is always aware. Your idea rather requires to look at the focus. Consciousness is similar to light or water, thats where the mataphors come from. Based on the focus the awareness is more or less intense.

What we sometimes call a dull person has a "field" awareness, more like a 360 degree awareness, while the "sharp" person has a pointy, sharp awareness. The awareness itself is shaped by the focus. The "amount" of consciousness is the same in both cases. Another good example is the same person drunken or sober. Same amount of consciousness , but one experience is "sharper".

elijahblackwood
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by elijahblackwood » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:13 am

But it seems consciousness is always aware
Hi there Mague. Thanks!

I can relate to consciousness working across different bands because even when we are in a state of “unconsciousness” and not seemingly self aware, cells continue to function normally and sense and detect changes in their environment.

This I suppose is a type of functional awareness that is scalable in size. Is this what you mean when you say consciousness is always aware, i.e. you can be unconscious/unaware at one scale (macro level) and conscious/aware (at the micro level) because I remember having my appendix operation and having absolutely no awareness of what was going on despite remaining conscious.

seasmith
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by seasmith » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:30 am

The external world of consciousness is just perturbations of consciousness, which our consciousnesses interpret as space, time etc.
Light is the first manifestation of the absolute [universal consciousness].


New Age Diarrhea

About as useful as saying
"In the beginning was the Word"
or
"Man is the thumb of god".

~

mague
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by mague » Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:59 am

elijahblackwood wrote:
But it seems consciousness is always aware
Hi there Mague. Thanks!

I can relate to consciousness working across different bands because even when we are in a state of “unconsciousness” and not seemingly self aware, cells continue to function normally and sense and detect changes in their environment.

This I suppose is a type of functional awareness that is scalable in size. Is this what you mean when you say consciousness is always aware, i.e. you can be unconscious/unaware at one scale (macro level) and conscious/aware (at the micro level) because I remember having my appendix operation and having absolutely no awareness of what was going on despite remaining conscious.
Yes. Although i d rather look at it as active and passive awareness. The passive is always. The active part depends on how well your brain is able to observe the "actions" within the consciousness.

Similar to dreaming. While dreaming the consciousness is working and turning "stuff" into awareness. That doesnt necessarily mean that you are able to willingly access all those aware parts. Very little children learn while sleeping but have no knowledge about it. This a passive process in consciousness.

Similar our 5 senses collect data all the time. This is all in the awareness, but the brain doesnt access it. There are billions of sensual data in a shopping mall, but we dont access them all, because usually we are focused on what we want in the mall. But all those data are potential knowledge unless we flush them in another REM state. However, if you move the picture of an item in the mall into your active awareness it wont get flushed and will remain accessible. Well, thats what advertising is trying to do, to move an item from passive to active awareness ;)

The "functionla" part is probably the autonomic nervous system. Awareness of hearbeats, breathing, eye blinking and function of internal organs etc. We may access this part or not. It still keeps working.

elijahblackwood
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by elijahblackwood » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:02 pm

The active part depends on how well your brain is able to observe the "actions" within the consciousness.
Isn't there a distinction between the brain processing data to it observing conscious actions?

What is the EU stance on consciousness, is there one? When we measure brain activity its measured by its electrical waves, person dies, electricity has disappeared. Even when we say consciousness is a product of the brain, we have to include that consciousness must also be a product or effect of electricity, the link between the electrical activity in a persons brain disappearing to them either dying or going into a vegetative state is as clear as daylight. I wonder what power output a persons brain shows when under anaesthetic, would there be a correlation between loss of power and a reduction in awareness. Something to explore.

Doesn't it seem credible that consciousness, being a product of electricity, can be scaled up. If there are galactic size electric currents in space, are they producing universal consciousness, or are we to assume that tiny electrical activity in our brain can produce what we experience, but that electricity operating at magnitudes that dwarf this produce nothing. What would be the chances of that :lol:

Grey Cloud
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by Grey Cloud » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:23 pm

Hi Elijah,
I think you are confusing cause and effect. The electro-chemical activity in the brain is the effect of consciousness; it isn't the consciousness.
I wonder what power output a persons brain shows when under anaesthetic, would there be a correlation between loss of power and a reduction in awareness. Something to explore.
I know studies have been to persons in deep meditation - can't point you to anything though. I seem to recall mention of alpha, beta, delta and gamma waves.
Doesn't it seem credible that consciousness, being a product of electricity, can be scaled up.
There is only consciousness so it can't be scaled up.

Electricity cannot be producing consciousness as electricity is material (Or requires a physical medium).Also there are places electricity can't go or pass through.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
Tao Te Ching, 53.

Lloyd
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by Lloyd » Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:14 pm

New Age Diarrhea - About as useful as saying - "In the beginning was the Word" - or "Man is the thumb of god".
* I brought up the idea that everything consists of consciousness for practical reasons. If we forever continue with the idea that space and particles are ultimate reality, it seems we'll never know what they consist of. And it seems that the only thing anything can ultimately consist of is consciousness, since that's all we really know in the first place. Everything we think we know about space and particles actually only exists in our consciousness; and without that consciousness there's no knowledge of space and particles at all. So everything must be experience and that's consciousness.
* As for self-awareness, it can't create itself, so it has to be created by a greater self-awareness.
* And, as I mentioned earlier, the only reason that even consciousness can exist seems to be the existence of universal caring. Nothing else seems able to hold consciousness together. Caring is even the motive for science itself.
* Anyway, meditation or the like seems to be a rational way to attain greater scientific knowledge, contacting higher consciousness directly, which has higher knowledge. I believe that's what Rupert Sheldrake did before writing A New Science of Life.

seasmith
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by seasmith » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:38 pm

Lloyd,

Universal consciousness > individual awareness,
(zen big mind > small mind);
you are probably getting very close to an intimation of ultimate reality with your line of thought.

It was their blunderbuss discharge of new-age psychobabble, that i was commenting on.

s

mague
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Re: Universe Consists of Consciousness

Unread post by mague » Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:28 pm

elijahblackwood wrote:
Doesn't it seem credible that consciousness, being a product of electricity, can be scaled up. If there are galactic size electric currents in space, are they producing universal consciousness, or are we to assume that tiny electrical activity in our brain can produce what we experience, but that electricity operating at magnitudes that dwarf this produce nothing. What would be the chances of that :lol:
Doesnt seem credible to me. Electricity does not create consciousness. The telescope does not create the stars. In that regard the electricity in our body is the same as the wiring of a telescope. The telescope needs its electric circuits to rotate, set declination, control focus and to open the hatch. Its pretty much the same with the body.

Even if so, it seems consciousness is quality based and not quantity based. More voltage would not result in more consciousness. The focus itself is of much more importance. As with light the same lens is able to create a laser beam or a huge picture on the cinema screen. Its the lens and the focal length that creates contraction or dilatation. Now imagine a variable lens like a muscle and you got all you need. Just to give you a hint, the common focus of modern city people is usually 5-10cm in front of the nose root. Thats because eyes, nose and ears tend to move the focus there. This isnt written in stone. Once you hear an alarm bell this spot moves towards the position of the sound. Our ancestors had a much better understanding of this because it was crucial to survive in the wilderness.

Another approach seems to be the water metaphor. We see it cycling while changing through aggregate states. Every snowflake is individual, has its very own molecular structure and probably its own electric activities. Lets say the particular one we observe is snowflake no. 2349912. Lets imagine No. 2349912 insists on his individuality and its own ego. And based on this it wants to expand towards the maximum of water to honor the creation. Wouldnt that be stupid ? Because it is already part of the ocean. Its journey is about watering plants, cleaning plants and animals and then to get cleaned itself. We can see the circle of water and laugh. But we have a hard time to see the circle of our own life and destiny of our individual existence.

Once we got a glimpse of our own circuit we understand better what to do with consciousness. Personally i tend to say it is not about expansion and gain of consciousness, because infinite is where we are from and return to. We dont need to carry matches to the sun. All that remains is quality based interaction with consciousness.

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