The Electron Hoax

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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The Electron Hoax

Unread postby rangerover777 » Sat Apr 05, 2008 1:28 pm

The Electron “discovered” by J.J. Thomson in 1887.
In fact what Mr. Thomson observed was a beam of burned particles
that radiate from the cathode through a small hole.

Read this link carefully, and judge it for yourself :

http://www.leedskalnin.net/elect-1.htm


Cheers
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby StevenO » Wed Apr 09, 2008 1:38 am

rangerover777 wrote:The Electron “discovered” by J.J. Thomson in 1887.
In fact what Mr. Thomson observed was a beam of burned particles
that radiate from the cathode through a small hole.

Read this link carefully, and judge it for yourself :

http://www.leedskalnin.net/elect-1.htm


Cheers


If the electron were a hoax then we would probably still be using candles in our homes :shock:
I think these kind of webpages serve no other purpose than to confuse people with out of context quotes :x Our state of knowledge has definitely moved forward since those 120 years ;)

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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby rangerover777 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:47 pm

My point about the electron, is that science tries stubbornly to view
the N & S individual magnets as electrons. In the 19th century it was
not clear yet who comes first the chicken or the egg and after the Special
Relativity came to life, the electrons took the lead.

In fact all the atom components, all the new particles that discovered
so far, the waves, gravity, chemistry and physics in general - if were viewed
under one umbrella (N & S magnets running in different combinations that
creates different phenomenas) - it would be much easier and integrated
theory. I’m not trying to simplify reality in order to let ignorance take over,
on the other hand doing Ed Leedskalnin experiments (which are pure scientific)
convinced me that N & S magnets and the Neutral particle of Matter are the
building block of the universe.

Here are some interesting facts :
1. You make electricity with two rotating magnets around a coils,
the stuff that runs in the wire have magnetic field (for some curious reason…),
the wires are connected to electric motor that based on changing N & S magnetic
field. So what goes in, what goes through, what comes out - you call it electrons ?
2. If science will figure out how the atom is built and how matter structure look like,
It will find N & S magnets revolving around the same core, in such a way atoms can
Be attached to other atoms, gravity (which is also magnets running in certain combination)
Will attract the matter, that made of atoms that made of magnets.
3. When you dissolve zinc in an acid, and the zinc atom’s orbit are broken, the N & S
Individual magnets are released and goes to the terminals.
4. All planets, moons and stars have magnetic field, so if someone claim earth poles
where switches in the past or the future, consider that the moon will bump into earth.
5. Why is the claim that magnetic field influence electrons, and there is no vice versa ?
6. Why light beam cannot pass through iron bar and magnets or other magnetic waves can ?
Maybe magnets are much faster then light ?

And why to take the wrong way from the beginning and force it through, reinforce it
with new names, particles, theories that based on other wrong theories, instead of watching
nature and how it works ?

JJ Thomson electrons are beam of burned matter, it’s neither electrons nor magnets, and
for some reason, no one shout that the Kind is naked.

I’ll may put some drawing of tests, to show how magnets runs.

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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby heretic5 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 1:25 pm

StevenO wrote:
rangerover777 wrote:The Electron “discovered” by J.J. Thomson in 1887.
In fact what Mr. Thomson observed was a beam of burned particles
that radiate from the cathode through a small hole.

Read this link carefully, and judge it for yourself :

http://www.leedskalnin.net/elect-1.htm


Cheers


If the electron were a hoax then we would probably still be using candles in our homes :shock:
I think these kind of webpages serve no other purpose than to confuse people with out of context quotes :x Our state of knowledge has definitely moved forward since those 120 years ;)

Steven


Many web pages are of the sort you describe. Leedskalin nevertheless cannot be dismissed because he single-handedly built Coral Castle. That fact nevertheless does not mean that anybody correctly understands how he did that. It merely means that we still have some misunderstanding to get rid of before we can correctly understand how he did that. Who among us knows what our misunderstanding about Leedskalin is, or is not? Let us therefore not be so quick to dismiss attempts to understand what we clearly do not.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby rangerover777 » Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:20 pm

For now I’m putting aside Coral Castle, since it’s too early to figure
out how Ed built it, the astronomy configuration, the wheel, the bottles
with the coils, his telescope and many other of his tools and other structures
that he made. The more you look into those in details, the more you start
to understand that he used some unorthodox ways, based on his understanding.

I chose the scientific way to explore his notes and validate them for myself,
even though I’m not there yet, a new picture is slowly emerging. One thing
is sure - if science is based on the right foundations, it will merge like a puzzle
piece to piece as you keep exploring nature - geology to math to astronomy
to chemistry, etc. etc.

In this way, there is no need to invent theories and names for new particles,
phenomenas , since it’s already founded on three building blocks. Once you
try to reinvent nature (similar to Babylon Tower), then in order to show you
are right, you’ll have to complicate it so it will look like you thought about it
and did all the necessary tests and calculation, until a more sophisticated
researcher will take over. And all this have to be done within certain
boundaries (accepted laws of science), otherwise no one will take notes.

And at last, simplicity and logic will prevail…

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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby rangerover777 » Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:20 pm

Good day,

Sorry to repeat my simple question again (since no one answered it yet) :
Why all the generators / dynamos on this planet needs South and North
rotating magnets, and whatever comes out you call an electron ???

Why all the electric motors needs South and North rotating magnets and
whatever the input you call electrons ???

Have you ever squeezed an orange and got milk ? Or pump your car tires
with air and when a nail got in, pure nitrogen escaped ?

I think that 50,000 years into the future, archeologists will tell about a race
that populated the planet, that had a strange ritual / ceremony, they use an energy
they called ‘electricity’ for their daily life, but their urge to re-invent nature
they called ’exploration of nature’. And no one really know to this
day how this ‘electricity’ was invented…

You see, nature is smart. It create male / female, white / black, life / death,
construction / destruction, attraction / repulsion, illusion / reality, positive / negative,
light / darkness, wet / dry, etc.
So why the electron don’t have a wife ? Why it is negative charged only ? Are we
living in a negative charged universe ? And why we force it to spin around the
atom when we already have natural-born orbiting particles ?
Same with attraction and repulsion. And the same with gravity, why do we need
to use mass, when we already have attracting / repelling natural-born particles ?

I hope someone can give an honest answer that will convinced me otherwise…

Enjoy
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby Tina » Thu Apr 24, 2008 7:04 am

rangerover777 wrote:Good day,

Sorry to repeat my simple question again (since no one answered it yet) :
Why all the generators / dynamos on this planet needs South and North
rotating magnets, and whatever comes out you call an electron ???

Why it is negative charged only ? Are we
living in a negative charged universe ? And why we force it to spin around the
atom when we already have natural-born orbiting particles ?
Same with attraction and repulsion. And the same with gravity, why do we need
to use mass, when we already have attracting / repelling natural-born particles ?

I hope someone can give an honest answer that will convinced me otherwise…

Enjoy


I copied this from the interesting site you linked:

Ed's explanation for gravity (N & S pole magnets moves in the same direction),
could not simulate in any laboratory yet.


Is that a correct description of Ed's explanation of gravity?

Also what is preventing laboratory simulations?
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby rangerover777 » Thu Apr 24, 2008 8:22 am

Good day,

Tina, thanks for your response,
This is Ed Leedskalnin theory, I’m just trying to take it further, since
Ed left only the explanation of the building blocks and someone have
to take it to it’s destination….

Nothing really prevent anyone to simulate gravity in a laboratory (neither
what is the magnets role in the universe) it is more about the implications
and the “shockwaves” that modern physics and astronomy will be hit by.
And it’s going to be very costly in money and pride.
So, we are looking here at a non-scientific situation….

Enjoy
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby junglelord » Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:37 am

I think you would love the APM model. It explains what your driving at in a more fundamental way. I think you would find a nice home with your N/S Paradigm and the APM would explain why the Electron is N/S, in a different way then Scalar Field Theory does, but still I see the basic building block represented by all three. Its a Dipole. There is no Monopole. The electron is not just a negitive charge in any of these theories. That is the common thread of agreement. How much they flesh that out to a more accurate level is dependent on how far back you start from scratch. The Standard Model is of no use as far as I can see to truly create a accurate approach to represent Realtity. The further any New Model strays from the Standard Model is that much harder for people to accept no matter how accuarate it may....at least in the current climate of science and dogma. Seems like a double edge sword.
;)

On the other hand the further one has started from scratch the harder it is for them to look at paradigms that might make the break half way in their rendering of the Universe and accept it as valid for any teaching purpose dispite the fact its leading a in a proper direction, if it does not arrive at the final destination, it may fall on deaf ears to one who has traveled further...

I see this as a challenge for one like myself since I like the middle ground in human relationships. The world needs to learn Natures Language. Some are slower then others and half steps are not as bad as some may think who have traveled further and maybe rightly that they have more to offer us as to the proper view. Not everyone can take that journey so fast. PR and communications skills are not the same thing as a great theory.

For myself I see more relationships then others may give credit for dispite their paradigm journey. These relatioinships to me are the driving point of all my thinking. I really do understand the need for a new break at the same time there is some merit in half steps as people are very stubborn at present to change. Its the human condition. However a sign pointing in the right direction is still usefull even if it is not the end of the journey. As long as the markers agree at some fundamental level then maybe, just maybe we are working our way out of the classical mess. Then again maybe not. One must remain ever open to new ways of seeing the Universe. We may be digging just another hole.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby StevenO » Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:31 am

rangerover777 wrote:Good day,

Sorry to repeat my simple question again (since no one answered it yet) :
Why all the generators / dynamos on this planet needs South and North
rotating magnets, and whatever comes out you call an electron ???

<...>

So why the electron don’t have a wife ? Why it is negative charged only ? Are we
living in a negative charged universe ? And why we force it to spin around the
atom when we already have natural-born orbiting particles ?
Same with attraction and repulsion. And the same with gravity, why do we need
to use mass, when we already have attracting / repelling natural-born particles ?

I hope someone can give an honest answer that will convinced me otherwise…

Enjoy


Actually, when an electron is born, both an electron and a positron (anti-electron) are created. However the electron moves forward in time and the positron moves backwards in time, so for our human interpretation of time the positron disappears into oblivion...Whether we find these positrons in the nucleus of atoms is still something to be discovered.

Same thing with gravity. An interpretation of EU is that we do not need the Big Bang if Einsteins General Relativity is correct and if matter is continuously created. At the same time existing matter it is being compressed, defining the force of gravity, so again we see two balancing forces.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby webolife » Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:30 pm

StevenO --- You've hit an interested nerve here. The whole "positrons moving backward in time" threw me for a loop, until I thought about the meaning of "time" in my Centropic unified field model. See if this doesn't define New Insights and Mad Ideas for you: "Time's arrow", as entropy is sometimes clicheed, is a function of the overarching and all pervasive unified field (Centropy > Entropy), which is responsible for the "compression" of the universe, atoms, and electrons into quanta we describe as mass or charge. As such, all matter is subject to the compressing "time" force, and any material that escapes the local centropic field might be deemed to "move back in in time"... however, by definition of "local" that material becomes absorbed by an adjacent field and "disappears", as it were, from "local" view... on the other hand, an electric dipole in oscillation, as would be the case when absorbing [being acted upon by] a light "vector" might exhibit both positronic and electronic effects until it returns to its original state, as a centropically motivated electron. I don't believe anything goes "back in time" in the abstract undefinable sense we usually have regarding time... "time's arrow" is pointed only in one direction, toward the universal center, confining and limiting all things, periodically or otherwise, to their point of origin. :twisted:
Truth extends beyond the border of self-limiting science. Free discourse among opposing viewpoints draws the open-minded away from the darkness of inevitable bias and nearer to the light of universal reality.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby StevenO » Tue Apr 29, 2008 2:05 am

Hi Webo,

I'm happy I hit a nerve with you :lol: But I was really just representing conventional wisdom here. The "positron as backwards electron" comes from Feynman and Wheeler (check Feynman's Nobel Price speech), including his suggestion whether they might be found inside the nucleus.

From EM theory standpoint the farthest end of the universe is at zero distance if it is in the lightcone of an event. That for instance explains why gyro's align with the position of the stars (all matter in the universe). Any wave producing an event is seen as moving backwards in time and any wave produced by the event is moving forward in time. Time is really just a yardstick, similar to the three space dimensions. The phase of the EM waves is what is variable wrt. to time.

Time's arrow then becomes a statistical observation. Feynman and Wheeler's conclusion was that if there were only a few chunks of matter in the universe the future would really affect the past and the other way around. It is the unimaginable number of waves propagating through the universe that really leads to the effect that most things can only be described in this statistical way. To simplify things, if the size of an EM system is restricted, we can work with just the events going in one direction.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:03 am

Actually, when an electron is born, both an electron and a positron (anti-electron) are created. However the electron moves forward in time and the positron moves backwards in time, so for our human interpretation of time the positron disappears into oblivion


I thought you were joking until you posted this:

The "positron as backwards electron" comes from Feynman and Wheeler (check Feynman's Nobel Price speech), including his suggestion whether they might be found inside the nucleus.


I'm not a techy bloke but where is an electron 'born' from or who is it born of? Surely if a positron was moving backward in time, it would not get to the point of being born? And where is this oblivion into which it supposedly disappears? Has anything ever actually been seen to move backwards in time?

In any case, I am of the mind that time doesn't exist. There is only the Eternal Now. What we call time is actually duration or in musical terminology - sostenuto. Reality is just a big flicker-book. Where did yesterday disappear to and where is tomorrow lurking?

All is mind; the Universe is mental.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby StevenO » Tue Apr 29, 2008 3:46 am

Grey Cloud wrote:
Actually, when an electron is born, both an electron and a positron (anti-electron) are created. However the electron moves forward in time and the positron moves backwards in time, so for our human interpretation of time the positron disappears into oblivion


I thought you were joking until you posted this:

The "positron as backwards electron" comes from Feynman and Wheeler (check Feynman's Nobel Price speech), including his suggestion whether they might be found inside the nucleus.


I'm not a techy bloke but where is an electron 'born' from or who is it born of? Surely if a positron was moving backward in time, it would not get to the point of being born? And where is this oblivion into which it supposedly disappears? Has anything ever actually been seen to move backwards in time?

In any case, I am of the mind that time doesn't exist. There is only the Eternal Now. What we call time is actually duration or in musical terminology - sostenuto. Reality is just a big flicker-book. Where did yesterday disappear to and where is tomorrow lurking?

All is mind; the Universe is mental.


"Fiction has to be plausible. Reality is under no such constraint." Can't remember who wrote that... :D

Electron-positron pairs can be created from high energy gamma radiation in the vicinity of matter. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production).

Time, like any other dimension, is a human creation. Something we need to support our notion of causality (once I do this, then the following will happen). A periodic event or even unrelated events in our 4 dimensional world of space-time can be a simple single entity in a higher dimension. or the other way around. But even our single dimensions are an unnecessary simplification of things since our universe works just as easy with broken dimensions (fractals). A very interesting article about this: http://www.blazelabs.com/f-u-hds.asp
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Re: The Electron Hoax

Unread postby Grey Cloud » Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:19 am

Steven,
Thanks for the links. The wiki article to me was just the usual scientific gobbledy-gook but the Blaze Labs one was quite interesting and largely understandable (the parts I didn't understand were down to my lack of technicals rather than the author or subject matter).
My favourite bit:
An object cannot pass to another plane or dimension of existence, because these planes or dimensions do not exist. No dimensions exist except in our minds.


He should have written brain instead of mind. Mind is much better than brain; brain is limited, mind is not.

Good stuff.
If I have the least bit of knowledge
I will follow the great Way alone
and fear nothing but being sidetracked.
The great Way is simple
but people delight in complexity.
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