What are your thoughts on creation , destruction and the EU?

[junglelord]

I got on this thread based on another thread being put into this one which was totally different as far as I can tell,
Re: 1945: First atomic bomb test... 2008: What is gravity?
so I really have not entered into the spirit of your thread....sorry.

[Atlas]

Ah, I see. So what do you think about the birth of the atomic bomb. Do you share my view that there was a foreknowledge of the science? It's my belief that the atom bomb was used to influence the minds of everyone around the world, and that our shepherds figured it was time to show the world. From that moment on the word of those scientists was gospel and the US was THE superpower.

[bboyer]

I got on this thread based on another thread being put into this one which was totally different as far as I can tell,
Re: 1945: First atomic bomb test... 2008: What is gravity?
so I really have not entered into the spirit of your thread....sorry.

Oh, but you have. Go back a page and re-verify. For convenience, here below is the original post that had been made to its own separate topic and, hence, merged into this one because it is esentially the same topic/subject matter (despite the misleading subject line). Though, as a suggestion it might indeed perhaps be wise to steer this one more in line with objective EU material and less in line with speculative conspiracy. As you've pointed out there are plenty of other sites that specialize in that area.

bryan
forum moderator

Post subject: 1945: First atomic bomb test... 2008: What is gravity?
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:36 pm

I mean, come on... Does anyone really believe that someone, somewhere hasn't solved this mystery? That there is nobody who knows the truth of the EU. That a small community who rely heavily on the internet and the discovery of "the mainstream" to confirm their theories have solved the great mystery while no one else can. With all the advances, all the discoveries and advances in technology we still can't really figure out what a tornado is or how a hurricane works.

I don't buy it. Someone wants to keep the EU under wraps. Anyone else feel this way?

Last edited by arc-us on Fri Apr 11, 2008 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
New topic merged with existing topic " What are your thoughts on creation , destruction and the EU?" and relocated to NIAMI board

[junglelord]

Sorry guys it was late last night and I was tired. I read the entire thread this morning. I believe my answers to the integrated thread say everything I have to say on this subject.

One point of interest did stand out to me but has little to do with the concept as introduced...Chaos and Re-Integration.

I will say that as a Orthopedic Structural Integration Therapist I used Gravity as a tool and also Chaos and Re-Integration as a tool. Yes I did and yes you can. The power of Structure and Function cannot be understated. My lifelong look into many things took me to Chaos and Re-Integration from a book called MegaBrain years ago. I one day realized that my clincal practice and my patients response to Structural Integration was on many levels that were in fact the work from MegaBrain on Chaos and Integration. I thought that was interesting to share. Its a function of the ANS *autonomic nervous system* and can be used as a tool theraputicly.

Also at a cellular level when doing Fascial Tensegrity Therapy, cells and their cytoskeleton undergo Jitterbug transformations (spontaniously disassemble and reassemble) which is a higher order of geometric expression after a chaos event. But I digress.

I do often think that history is not clear and technology may have come and gone. I do not buy the 2012 movement but I do realize that its a prevalent thought out there today. I do not know what happened in the past that may be left out, but I do have a clear grasp on the present since the last 100 years and I am lover of history. I am quite sure about the present day conspiracy theories and which ones are true and where we are as a society.

Its very complex and not something people want to talk about or to know about. I do think that the EU is held hostage by the National Security of UFO technology and thats about where I would like to leave it as far as my take on it. The Elite and their agenda is not totally hidden, but their ability to know the future is as limited as the rest of us.

Cheers.
Dean

[Grey Cloud]

An interesting thread just be careful that Plasmatic, the self-appointed keeper of the gate for this entire forum, does not return.

The way I see it is that the Universe/Creation is cyclical and a four-phase cycle at that.

""Creation" is derived proximally from the Latin verb creare. This in turn derives from the basic Indo-European root ker-, meaning "to grow." It points toward Ceres (the goddess of grain and agriculture), increase, crescendo, accrual, decrease, procreation, kouros and kore, com, cranium, and Herne. Among animals, it suggests the names rook. raven, and kestrel. Elementally, ker- names the fires of hearth. ceramic and cremation. 12

"Origin" is again from the Latin - in this case, the noun origo and the verb oriri, "to rise." It is from the IE root er-, "to set in motion." Er- points toward forms of the verb to be (were and are), as well as ardor felt in battle (to be earnest), orientation, origin, and, in an extended form, run, running, rival, and rivulet. It also provides erne for eagle, ornitho for birds generally, as well as earth and various horned domestic animals such as Aries the ram.

Clearly, the semantics of the two families are closely allied. Both ker- and er- connote movements of arising and growth. They also refer to horns and horned animals, as well as birds. They suggest the emergence of power into manifestation a rising up. Yet, in this field of similarities, there are also significant divergences. Ker- connects to the element of fire. It is the hearth. carbon, and cremation. Fire is the vital, fertilizing energy of growth, development and change, and it is the consuming fire of the funeral pyre. Both of these aspects are present in ker-. It holds the rook and the raven, who are birds of death, and the agricultural bounty of Ceres and corn. Er-, on the other hand, is linked to the element earth rather than fire. As motion, it is running rather than growth. It is flowing out onto the ground rather than burgeoning emergence. It names what is set into motion".
http://www.earthspirit.com/fireheart/fhpmyth.html

I hope Plasmatic doesn't spot that I have used the 'C' word.

Everything an Indian does is in a circle, and
that is because the Power of the World always
works in circles, and everything tries to be round.
In the old days when we were a strong and
happy people, all our power came to us from
the sacred hoop of the nation, and so long as the
hoop was unbroken, the people flourished.
The flowering tree was the living centre of the hoop,
and the circle of the four quarters nourished it.
The east gave peace and light, the south gave
warmth, the west gave rain, and the north with its
cold and mighty wind gave strength and endurance.

Everything the Power of the
World does is done in a circle.

The sky is round, and I have heard that the Earth is
round like a ball, and so are all the stars. The wind, in
its greatest power, whirls. Birds make their nests in
circles, for theirs is the same religion as ours.
The sun comes forth and goes down again in a circle.
The moon does the same, and both are round.
Even the seasons form a great circle in
their changing, and always come back
again to where they were.
The life of a man is a circle
from childhood to childhood,
and so it is in everything
where power moves.

BLACK ELK of the OGLALA SIOUX

Plato, Theaetetus 152e (trans. Fowler) (Greek philosopher C4th B.C.) :
"And on this subject [i.e. that all things are derived from flow and motion] all the philosophers . . . may be marshalled in one line--Protagoras and Herakleitos and Empedokles--and the chief poets in the two kinds of poetry, Epikharmos, in comedy, and in tragedy, Homer, who, in the line `Oceanus the origin of the gods, and Tethys their mother,' has said that all things are the offspring of flow and motion."

"The fundamental element of the cosmos is Space. Space is the all-embracing principle of higher unity. Nothing can exist without Space. .. According to ancient Indian tradition the Universe reveals itself in two fundamental properties: as Motion and as that in which motion takes place, namely Space. This Space is called Akasa .. derived from the root kas, 'to radiate, to shine', and has therefore the meaning of ether which is conceived as the medium of movement. The principle of movement, however, is Prana, the breath of life, the all-powerful, all-pervading rhythm of the universe". (Lama Anagarika Govinda, 1969)

"The word Brahman means growth and is suggestive of life, motion, progress". (Radhakrishnan)

"Hindu cosmology is non-dualistic. Everything that is is Brahman. Brahman is the eternal Now, and in eternity there is no before or after, for everything is everywhere, always. To use the words of Pascal 'it is a circle the center of which is everywhere and the circumference nowhere.' (Sudhakar S.D, 1988)

"Ignorant of the cause of life, ignorant of the purpose of life, ignorant of what lies beyond the mystery of death, yet possessing within himself the answer to it all, man is willing to sacrifice the beautiful, the true, and the good within and without upon the blood-stained altar of worldly ambition. The world of philosophy--that beautiful garden of thought wherein the sages dwell in the bond of fraternity--fades from view. In its place rises an empire of stone, steel, smoke, and hate-a world in which millions of creatures potentially human scurry to and fro in the desperate effort to exist and at the same time maintain the vast institution which they have erected and which, like some mighty, juggernaut, is rumbling inevitably towards an unknown end. In this physical empire, which man erects in the vain belief that he can outshine the kingdom of the celestials, everything is changed to stone, Fascinated by the glitter of gain, man gazes at the Medusa-like face of greed and stands petrified".
(Manly P. Hall - The Secret Teachings of All Ages)

"This world, which is the same for all, no one of gods or men has made; but it was ever, is now and ever shall be an ever-living. Fire, with measures kindling and measures going out".
Heraclitus, Fr30.

"In the circumference of a circle the beginning and the end are common".
Heraclitus, Fr103.

Be good, people.

[Plasmatic]

An interesting thread just be careful that Plasmatic, the self-appointed keeper of the gate for this entire forum, does not return.

While I have been appointed by others to do one thing MODERATOR, my participation in these threads have been with my own username . Irrespective of my position your behaviour is unacceptable .You would be wise to curtail your spree of personal attacks on my character! This is now the 4th example of disrespect from you.

[Grey Cloud]

Try posting something worth respecting. All you seem to do is attack other peoples views with your own opinions dressed up in a hotch-potch of pseudo-Aristotelian jargon (largely taken from the list of logical terms on the kronia website). I should add that if English is not your first language, then it is very good; if it is, then ...
The only sources I have seen you give for your opinions are TOTG, stuff from the Kronia website and the Cochrane stuff.
Speaking of Cochrane you have not responded to my critique of his Herakles piece (and I apologise if you have and I have missed it).
If you don't like the heat - get out of the kitchen.

[rangerover777]

Atlas,

Thanks for bringing up this topic.
As you may aware, in our culture destruction, misery, terrorism and wars
get the highest rating and provide the perfect “attention magnet”. How many
prediction about prosperity, growth, well being, peace and restoration of earth
have you seen lately ?

If your watching the History, Discovery, Science TV channels you can see that
programs dealing with asteroid impacting earth, earthquakes, tsunamis, epidemics
and other disasters on “biblical proportions” (that’s how they call it) - bring those
channels the best rating.

If you examine it thoroughly, you can see that if earth will be hit by a mega
disaster and billions will be killed - there is very little you can do, beside re-born
again on earth or incarnate in other place in the universe (nothing can kill your soul).
So whatever happen, is not really up to us.

Now, using Fear is a great tool, used in our culture too often. By governments, media,
science, and very much in the daily life, as a mean to control, to get attention, as a general
purpose the achieve or gain something. And I think something have to be done about that.
basically I can warn you against 700 immediate threats on your life, and if one of them will
happen, I’ll be the first to say “I told you so and you did not heard me”…

I think we should not worry much about global destruction, as to focus on our psychological
daily state of mind, which is the core reason for improving our culture and restoring our
little planet.


Enjoy.

[Plasmatic]

Try posting something worth respecting. All you seem to do is attack other peoples views with your own opinions dressed up in a hotch-potch of pseudo-Aristotelian jargon (largely taken from the list of logical terms on the kronia website). I should add that if English is not your first language, then it is very good; if it is, then ...

I have made no personal attacks as I dont do Ad-Hominem. All I do Is express my own conceptual choices. Which is all everyone else does as well. Only insecure , irrational folks get upset over conceptual disagreement . In contrast you have made direct personal attacks that consist largley of false assumptions that are irrelevent to the context. ex. "(largely taken from the list of logical terms on the kronia website" I have no idea what you are talking about . There is no list of logical terms on "Kronia" to my knowledge. However as Ive posted in the thread on the very subject , I do consult this site :

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/taxonomy.html

And I have intentionaly linked to the Mikamar site in order to purposefully direct traffic there for buisiness.

Besides what would it matter where someone gained understanding? This is another example of your criticism that "another record " need be played. Let me help you learn where your posting , Its the Tunderbolts Forum , which the rules state :

"Personal or ad hominem attacks will not be tolerated, under any circumstances. If you disagree with something which has been posted, address the post, not the poster.

For the most part, discussion is to be restricted to published materials with some relevance to Electric Universe and Plasma Cosmology themes, and related scientific information."

The "published materials" ,you see thats the "records" where here to discuss / play GC.

You have continually attacked the man and not the message. This is unacceptable.This is now #5 .I have not responded to your Cochrane points because you need to first actually learn what your talking about as far as the model is concerned. If I respond youll just ask more question for which you would have answers if you listened to the relevent "records" your directed to. Incidentally I have also referred you to Dwardus books . Which just about covers every relevent author/ "record" save Rens. And I specifically contrasted his view to theirs.

If you don't like the heat - get out of the kitchen.

There is one kind of flame not suitable for heating here ,and thats the ad hominem personal kind youve now displayed 5 times.

[Atlas]

I don't believe you can discount the possibility that history and our future are molded by the ones we follow, the pioneers of our science and arts. The thought that nobody out there has any idea what is happening to our planet or where things are headed is too outlandish for me, especially given our planet's past, the accounts of our ancestors and the obvious nature of the electric universe. I mean... damn, come on.

I do believe creation can be a science if only we could understand how it takes place. Science has taken us so far, but if we discovered the electric connection to all things, the unifying force of nature then there would be a great shift. As man suddenly begins to discover how to create, who would be able to say we haven't become gods? From the double-helix strands of DNA in our bodies that resemble Birkeland currents, to the stem cells that resemble nebulae, to the way our arteries and veins branch like the trees and lightning, there is no doubt in my mind that all this can be manipulated successfully and safely with the proper technique and equipment.

Besides, what are the images and memories in our mind besides electricity? Creation becomes a valid science when we begin to understand how it could be possible.

On another note, I believe you deleted one of my threads Plasmatic and then pretended to know nothing about it. The one I had in the mythology section. I don't appreciate that.

[Plasmatic]

On another note, I believe you deleted one of my threads Plasmatic and then pretended to know nothing about it. The one I had in the mythology section. I don't appreciate that.

Allow me to help you with that false assumption:
From the Origins of Myth thread:

by David Talbott on Fri Apr 11, 2008 8:16 pm

A minor interruption.

As readers will see, certain nuances of this Forum section are being formulated as we go along, based on what happens. We may be a couple of weeks away from publicly announcing the mythology section because without a reasonably clear start, discussion will take up too much time in unproductive directions. There is lots of room for questions and discussion based on what you presently see in this section, and we'll try to expand the raw content as quickly as possible.

If you see a thread get launched, then disappear, that is only because of crucial time considerations. We made a calculated decision to start the mythology section knowing we might have to install certain guidelines after the fact. For example, it can quickly become counterproductive if, before a model is even sketched out in rudimentary detail, we see discussion launching into questions about the legitimacy of religious concepts. Yes, all religions were affected by prior mythology, often in perverse ways, but the issue is much more complex than that, and the Saturn theory is not a sledge hammer to use against people's religious convictions.

So a thread got started about mythology and concepts of God, and it was deleted. I found it interesting, but not helpful for establishing the more neutral ground, which will allow people to assess the reconstruction and draw their own conclusions as to how spiritual beliefs might or might not be affected by a reconsideration of mythology. They certainly do not mean the same thing.

Discussion amongst the moderators is presently underway to find the best approach for setting limits on discussion, but not oppressively so.

David Talbott

[junglelord]

I find it interesting that the term "images in our mind" might mean if I get it right collective memory, something not experienced but in the DNA of records? Is that way off base? I do not discount it for a second but it brings up a lot of questions or answers on ones view of the universe and consciousness and the relationship to time over a race or species. Basically the 100th Monkey Theory in action. Or the Hall of Records?

[Atlas]

I was meaning more along the lines of just when you close your eyes and imagine something, random thoughts and images, that those have to be light and electricity in one form or another. I see color, after all. I don't believe that there is a "hall of records" in our DNA, or that memories are passed down. Maybe something is stored there after we recieve this sensory input, but in someone like me and you that would only be a superficial image.

We already have everything we need around us. What causes a tree to grow and branch the way it does and what is it branching towards, and how could you speed up the process with energy fields? How could you make a basic blueprint of an animal and place it in a matrix, recreate it in the flesh, or manipulate the mind? It's all electricity. With a full understanding of the greatest science and technology we could do all these things, utilizing great sources of raw energy and power like the sun or the splitting atom to perform these feats.

Perhaps you could manipulate the natural energy fields of a certain area or city by erecting antennaes or pyramids in a pattern, creating gardens and playgrounds free from the ravages of time. Areas where the mind, like trees and lightning, can grow greater with many more finer branches allowing us to store more information and manipulate our thoughts in ways we currently think impossible.

That's my take on it, anyway.

[polarityparadox]

Hi Atlas,

Some of my thought on creation are posted at that these two threads:

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... &sk=t&sd=a

http://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/forum/phpB ... ?f=9&t=420

I would maintain that the whole shift from group consciousness to individuality was not just a random chance direction in human evolution but the goal and purpose of it. Rudolf Steiner was the best advocate of this concept. He described it as a polarity: the dominance of the pregnant, intangible "wisdom" forces unconsciously guiding humanity in the past balanced by the modern shift into precipitated forms of all kinds of different "knowledge" systems of subject/object perspective so as to facilitate the beginnings of self-reflection and self evolution. Steiner maintained that the "gods" (forces, powers, energies; grounded physically in the actions of plasma) slowly receded and withdrew from intimate relationship with man so as to allow man the efflorescence of intellect that could construct concepts and ideas that were not intrinsically bound to the "sacred numerical canon" (Plato). Thus we have today the ability to think feel and do anything under the sun, generative OR destructive. Looking at the amazingly long lived civilizations of the past (thousands of years even!) you will see at their basis a type of synarchy (the reverse of anarchy).

Every aspect of their societies was completely bound by the "sacred canon". John Michell with his book The Dimensions of Paradise (it is truly a fount of wisdom) has elegantly shown how all the major civilizations of the past used one unified system of numbers: 1-12, powers of 12 and multiples of 72, pi, phi, 7!, 11!, 12! (the exclamation mark after the number means that every number from 1 to that number is multiplied together) essentially. These numbers derive directly out of the movements of the cosmos and earth as it exists today. Believe it or not but all the dimensions of the sun, moon, earth, and their relationships can elegantly derive out of them and it can be shown that premier goal of the ancients was to create/engineer temples that numerically exactly as possible resonated with all the divine constants by uniting terrestrial, telluric energies with cosmic, electrical, (plasma!!) fields. This was symbolised by them in the union of 1080 ("negative" lunar dominated wisdom of the past) with 666 ("positive" solar, rational knowledge more associated with the present) to create the number of fusion: 1746. Interestingly the ratio of the two numbers is a close approx. of the golden section relationship, namely 1:1.62.


Compare that to today where you have absolutely no sense of unity among various branches of knowledge, witness the completely insane mess cosmology is in.
Modern medicine is in no better condition, being the leading cause of death in America. That was why I felt compelled to take up homeopathy as an answer to this splintering of wisdom from knowledge. Natural, dynamic philosophy is almost dead to modern consciousness as a way to synthesize the various branches of far flung, over-intellectualized knowledge we are stuck with today. Another reason I so love this site and forum.


I choose to see that everything being explicated on this site is the materially revelatory description of a past AND present dynamic meaningfully alive; pulsating electro-magnetic (color) interactions ensconced in a polarity of levity (light, spiritus) and gravity (dark, dynamis). I am truly amazed at how the blow by blow elaboration of the saturn sequences lead directly into the qualitative steps of consciousness evolution as described by esotericists.

From a certain objective perspective one could say that it was quite a harsh way to develop man's individuality: by literally shattering his world and causing him to stand outside himself and struggle for survival, yet would we take any of it back now?? Do we not revel in our freedom? The freedom to either engage in Loving acts or Fearful acts, to choose nobility in the absence of the "gods" guidance. Wilhelm Reich was a pioneer in showing how the grounded basis of psychology (with all its neurosis and psychosis) could be shown to be fundamentally the armored blockage of bio-ELECTRIC, sexual energy. He traced this blockage back to about 5-6,000 years ago, right into the window of time of the saturn configuration destruction...He found that when man was freed from his "armor" (somatic or psychic) he reverted to a genitally potent individual that naturally ruled himself through his inner ethos. This to me was the gift of the "Fall". It allowed us to evolve to the state where we could healthily rule our inner and outer circumstance based on our "measured" (grounded!) understanding of earth and cosmos.

I find that there is a profound connection of the ancient "spiritual " technologies to plasma processes. I keep seeing that some people here are a little averse to the idea that there could be any spiritually uplifting properties to the harnessing of plasma in certain harmonic, resonant processes but I would say that evidence that the ancients left behind is almost irrefutable in this regard. Honestly, if you read The Dimensions of Paradise by John Michell, you will be pleasantly surprised and shocked by the numerical harmony of the earth, sun and moon and cosmos. All their "sacred" structures are exactly keyed to these natural dimensions of reality. And I think that the plasma reality cannot be divorced from these natural harmonies and in fact only strengthens and grounds their elegance and power. I will create some threads on this matter shortly...

I think the answer to the insane disease processes of our times is to re-engage the resonant systems of the past in a modern context.

Best
Benjamin

[polarityparadox]

I really like the symbolism of the stages of harmonic stability, chaos, then re-integration into a higher, more encompassiong harmonic pattern seen in Jenny's cymatics. Clearly we are in the chaos phase btw. two stable harmonic patterns. In fact, this is what may be inferred from the Mayan's idea that we are in the "no-time" btw. the 5th sun and 6th sun (may be btw. 4th and 5th, not sure), said to be from 1987 til 2012. So the concept is that a new crystallization will emerge around that "time" - to me, it is better to see such phenomenological processes as not locked into linear, cause and effect paradigms but rather that we are more seeing an evolution of A (grand) STATE OF MIND through various configurations a la plasma morphology that flow two ways (past>now<future) rather like the models of two super-imposed vortexual systems. Junglelord has laid this out so nicely in his various posts...

Benjamin