Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Beyond the boundaries of established science an avalanche of exotic ideas compete for our attention. Experts tell us that these ideas should not be permitted to take up the time of working scientists, and for the most part they are surely correct. But what about the gems in the rubble pile? By what ground-rules might we bring extraordinary new possibilities to light?

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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:27 pm

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:03 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Mo"

And Stars would not split in half, it would likely shoot out a streamer of "core material" that is of a different charge than its surface material. This material (mass ejection) would pile up at a certain altitude and be pinched into a sphere... Likely many other "globules" would also harden into planetlike objects and would begin to orbit the old or new sun.
Neil Thompson


There are two basic theories on planet formation. One is that
stars get too much electrical stress and split in halves, forming
the binary systems that are so common. During this process
the core of the star may be elongated and break up forming
a planet or many planets which are held between the stars by
electrical forces, or possibly by the rotation of the binary system
balancing either electrical or gravitational forces. This sort of
planet could be hollow.

The other theory is that gas giants or brown dwarfs or stars
eject material which become planets like Venus. One theorises
that a plasma current enters the surface of Saturn, say, and
pulls on the planet extracting this material that forms a planet.
If so, then this current could go through the centre of this
material and a hollow planet could again eventuate. Another
intriguing possibility is that this material comes not from the
core of Saturn, but from the surface. Thus Saturn would be a
hollow planet with a solid surface that was fairly thin. Then it
would be fairly easy to remove a chunk of this surface material.

Just maybe the 'heavy' elements, formed by the electrical
discharges on the surface of a star or brown dwarf or gas
giant, don't fall to the core, but rather congeal at the surface.

It's a wonderful world of theory here !

Mo
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:27 pm

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:56 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

.My earlier quote on Marklund convection was apparently from Ian's site here
http://www.plasma-universe.com/index.php/Filamentation
and not from Wikipedia, though it may once have been there.
.The article said this about Marklund electrical convection:
The drift of ionized matter from the surroundings into the rope means that the rope acts as an ion pump, which evacuates the surroundings. Regions with extremely low densities can be produced in this way ."[3]
.So electric fields in plasma cause electric currents that scavenge charged matter from an area, condensing matter and reducing density of the surrounding area. I said earlier that this seems to mean that, when stars or galaxies form, the matter is apparently taken from the surrounding space, so that space is made less dense in matter contents, and made more a vacuum. And this may be how great voids in space formed, such as the Bootes void.
.It just occurred to me that in our atmosphere electric currents may scavenge water vapor from the air, condensing the vapor into rain drops and leaving behind a low pressure area, which then causes movement of air from higher pressure areas into the low pressure area. Is it likely that electric currents in the air condense water vapor into rain droplets? The center of the current filament is said to be cooler than the exterior, so I suppose that's possible. Maybe the filament center can get cool enough to turn the water to sleet, snow, hail etc.
.If Thornhill is right about electric currents flowing into the earth through volcanoes and earthquake faults, I wonder if the same sort of evacuating of surroundings occurs. If so, that immediate surroundings would become a lower pressure area, which would tend to be filled by surrounding higher pressures, which might help cause movement of lava out of a volcano or movement of earthquakes.
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:30 pm

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lite-brite"

Pfhoenix,

Sure, the mechanics of light and sound. Cavitation can be induced by using ultrasound and even *light*. See 1) below for sonoluminescence and heat effects. Is it still mechanic when we change the terms to radiation and plasma?

Websters:
5 : caused by, resulting from, or relating to a process that involves a purely physical as opposed to a chemical or biological change or process <mechanical>


1) http://www.hielscher.com/ultrasonics/sonochem_01.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence

2) http://www.scs.uiuc.edu/suslick/britannica.html

3) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G7EHyyoc86A

4 http://www.techmind.org/sl/

Here's nine "planets":

5) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4exO4CuoSU

/probably will end up in the cymatics thread :)
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:31 pm

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:48 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

The Wikipedia article on sonoluminescence that you linked to says the micro bubbles that are made and burst by ultrasound produce not only brief light pulses but also tremendous heat, though in a tiny space. It said a million or billion degrees Kelvin. I can imagine that enough of such ultrasound could make a person's blood and other fluids boil pretty quick. Our beloved military-industrial complex is probably perfecting ways to put it to use for its usual genocide plots. [I mentioned elsewhere that science will probably remain corrupt just as long as society does.]
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:32 pm

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2007 1:38 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lite-brite"

Cheer up. There are cheaper ways of getting the job done than that.

Makes me wonder if this is the "sound" referred to in the "Magnetic Field Uses Sound Waves To Ignite Sun's Ring Of Fire" article.?
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:33 pm

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 12:22 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lk"

.How could thinking there are cheaper ways to commit genocide cheer one up?
.But I'm right, aren't I, that ultrasound causes internal heating?
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:35 pm

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "lite-brite"

My guess is that the next counter argument to the EU movement will be just that- the "ultrasound argument" or what ever you would like to call it. I am just waiting for the reversal of "you can't hear sound in a vacuum" line...

My interest is trying to find out what happens when you take the lightest of plasmas and what follows if you separate it from itself in galactic proportions. What happens? Is there also light and radiation? Maybe this is the answer, from today's tpod:

And as plasma, the clouds are almost certainly not “turbulent.” Hannes Alfven, the Nobel Laureate father of plasma cosmology, warned astrophysicists, “The sloppy use of the term ‘turbulent’ has caused, and is causing, much confusion.... [T]here is no certain indication than anywhere in space there is very much (large scale) turbulence in the proper sense of the word.... [R]eal turbulence produces mixing.... On the contrary, [in space plasmas] a separation of elements often takes place.” [Alfven, Cosmic Plasma, 1981, pp. 42-3. Emphasis in original.]
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:36 pm

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2007 7:25 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Pfhoenix"

Last I checked (which would be during my wife's last pregnancy), ultrasound as used in medicine doesn't cause internal bleeding (the kid is still alive, kicking, and getting in trouble). Is it possible for super/ultra sonic vibrations to cause internal bleeding? I have no experimental research information to fall back on to make an informed decision.
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:37 pm

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2007 10:33 pm Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "Krackonis"

lite-brite wrote:My guess is that the next counter argument to the EU movement will be just that- the "ultrasound argument" or what ever you would like to call it. I am just waiting for the reversal of "you can't hear sound in a vacuum" line...

My interest is trying to find out what happens when you take the lightest of plasmas and what follows if you separate it from itself in galactic proportions. What happens? Is there also light and radiation? Maybe this is the answer, from today's tpod:

And as plasma, the clouds are almost certainly not “turbulent.” Hannes Alfven, the Nobel Laureate father of plasma cosmology, warned astrophysicists, “The sloppy use of the term ‘turbulent’ has caused, and is causing, much confusion.... [T]here is no certain indication than anywhere in space there is very much (large scale) turbulence in the proper sense of the word.... [R]eal turbulence produces mixing.... On the contrary, [in space plasmas] a separation of elements often takes place.” [Alfven, Cosmic Plasma, 1981, pp. 42-3. Emphasis in original.]


I would assume that any system, between two bodies of unequal charges would set up some sort of resonance. This resonance would be possible to be physical as if you vibrated the body which is eminating a plasma streamer, then would that streamer not, in essence, be vibrating? Cymatically, as it were?
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby bboyer » Tue May 06, 2008 11:53 am

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:31 am Post subject: Reply with quote
OP "junglelord"

Pfhoenix wrote:One big problem - cavitation is a mechanical phenomena. Plasma is dominated (dominated nearly completely) by electromagnetism.


Solitons move in a plasma and are non linear structures that mimic mechanical phenomena. In fact non linear physics dominates plasma as far as I can see.
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby Valhalla » Fri Nov 28, 2008 11:10 am

astro-lite wrote:
So hows this for a mad idea: it is an established fact that one can cavitate a fluid and the result can be light and an associated, high, temperature. This can be achieved with light and other waves.



Nah...not so mad.

LIGHT
HEAT
SOUND

All three have been observed in space.
The scientist till now has concerned themselves primarily with LIGHT and HEAT, and sadly ignoring SOUND.
Not any longer.
How about this as a mad idea?

Hear me roar, I have a long overdue message that is painfully obvious to the empirical scientist.
You screwed up big time.
We have wasted at least 121 years chasing only LIGHT and HEAT as we search for answers to the universal cause and effect.

Some speculate the beginning of a cycle began in LEO....around 10,000 BC?

Roar roar roar...
>> Sphinx >> once a lion >> chiseled over to resemble a Pharaoh >> Lion's roar >> and the patriarchal Pharaohs are always Lyin' about the truth? >> nah >> coincidences :lol:

Plasma cavitation = luminiferous aether?
Here we go again.

Why invent new words and concepts like plasma and dark matter and dark energy?
When everything appeared to be in place long ago?
Instead of altering the evidence and calling it something new...why not just try to understand the ancient mind?
Let us observe the evidence they left for us.
Have all the observers stay out of the room.
They may disturb and RUIN and spoil the evidence.
Shhhh can you hear the wheel turning as they reinvent it again again and again?
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby junglelord » Sat Jan 03, 2009 4:02 am

Plasma Cavitation and Anti-Gravity

An Investigation of Negative Gravitational Propulsion
By William F. Hamilton III
Magnetic Bubbles and Supercavitation:

If we consider space a medium and that medium is a particulate composition of space itself, similar to aether, then we can model space propulsion systems based on that space-aether concept.

The material of space is said to be filled with a froth of virtual particles. Perhaps, in addition, there are some lepton neutrino space-filling particles that constitute a hydrodynamic energy that exerts pressure on mass concentrations. If these particles, real or virtual normally flow through matter, but encounter increasing resistance with mass density, we could attribute the force of gravity to this virtual particle pressure. Likewise, such a pressure may be responsible for inertia.

I quote from an article on supercavitation:

“Lately there has been a resurgence of interest in a technology that allows naval weapons and vessels to travel submerged at hundreds of miles per hour. The fastest traditional undersea technologies are limited to a maximum velocity of about 80 miles per hour. The technology that allows some undersea vessels to travel faster than the speed of sound in water is called supercavitation. First explored in the 1940s, supercavitation exploits a loophole that allows underwater travel with minimal drag. For many years naval experts studied its parent field, cavitation, because of the problems that it brings about. Only recently did researchers consider supercavitation as a way to build faster submarines and torpedoes.

To understand supercavitation, first cavitation must be understood. When a fluid moves rapidly around a body, the pressure in the flow drops. This pressure reduction over the surface of the body is the same effect that generates lift on airplane wings and gives sailboats the ability to move on the water's surface with only the wind to propel them. As the velocity increases and the pressure continues to drop, a point is reached at which the pressure in the flow equals the vapor pressure of water, whereupon the fluid undergoes a phase change and becomes a gas: water vapor.

Under certain circumstances, especially at sharp edges, the flow can include attached cavities of approximately constant pressure filled with water vapor and air trailing behind. This is called natural cavitation. Normally, cavitation is a condition to be avoided in fluid flow systems, because it can distort water flow to rob pumps, turbines, hydrofoils, and propellers of operational efficiency. It can also lead to violent shock waves (from rapid bubble collapse), which cause pitting and erosion of metal surfaces.

In supercavitation, the small gas bubbles produced by cavitation expand and combine to form one large, stable, and predictable bubble around the supercavitating object. The bubble is longer than the object, so only the leading edge of the object actually contacts liquid water. The rest of the object is surrounded by low-pressure water vapor, significantly lowering the drag on the supercavitating object.

A supercavity can also form around a specially designed projectile. The key is creating a zone of low pressure around the entire object by carefully shaping the nose and firing the projectile at a sufficiently high velocity. At high velocity water flows off the edge of the nose with a speed and angle that prevent it from wrapping around the surface of the projectile, producing a low-pressure bubble around the object. With an appropriate nose shape and a speed over 110 miles per hour, the entire projectile may reside in a vapor cavity.

Some estimates indicate that a supercavitating projectile, using rocket propulsion, could travel at speeds in excess of 230 miles per hour underwater. “

[Caltech Undergraduate Research Journal, November 30, 2001 ; Scientific American, May 2001; Deep Angel Cavitator]

Note the analogy of a spatial ocean or sea with an H2O ocean. Creating a supercavity around a submarine would permit rapid travel through the medium.

Creating a supercavity in space fluid around a spacecraft would also permit rapid travel through the vacuum of space. The supercavity envisioned might be created as an electro-magnetic bubble that repels space particles or drastically reduces the density of the space foam so as to enable the spacecraft to achieve hyperlight velocities, especially if by this action it has a measurable effect on reducing inertia.

The magnetospheric plasma propulsion envisioned by Robert Winglee may be one step on the path toward a true magneto-gravitic propulsion system.

The method makes use of the ambient energy of the solar wind by coupling

to the solar wind through a large-scale (~ > 10 km) magnetic bubble or mini-magnetosphere. The magnetosphere is produced by the injection of plasma on to the magnetic field of a small (< 1 m) dipole coil tethered to the spacecraft. In this way, it is possible for a spacecraft to attain unprecedented speeds for minimal energy and mass requirements. Since the magnetic inflation is produced by electromagnetic processes, the material and deployment problems associated with the mechanical sails are eliminated.

Perhaps a magnetic vortex of extreme power drives flying saucers across our skies and through space. If such a magnetic vortex could be focused to tunnel through the space medium, then I believe hyperlight speeds are possible.

In Conclusion:

An aether-vortex model of the atom may be useful in devising means of producing a negative gravitational or repulsive force. The aether itself may be the source of dark energy. The vortex core may be a gateway into other dimensions and time travel. It is one thing to replicate or reverse-engineer an Alien machine, but there is no doubt that there are variations on gravity control and two main variations are supercapacitance and superconduction. I favor the idea of generating high-potential fields by rotating charges as in the spin of elementary particles and using these macro electrostatic fields for the control of gravitation and inertia.



In a letter to researcher William Steinman, Dr. Robert I. Sarbacher who was with the Washington Institute of Technology, confirms that some of the scientists involved in the study of recovered flying discs were Dr. Vannever Bush, John von Neumann, and Dr. Robert Oppenheimer. Steinman also discovered that one of the scientists working on saucer technology from the early days was Dr. Eric Henry Wang who became Director of the Department of Special Studies, within the Structures Division, of the old Wright Air Development Center, near Dayton, Ohio.


The Bi-Field Theory:
From a scientist: “The primary propulsion system is electro-magnetic flux directional positive force generating system. The secondary propulsion system is a anti-gravity (using fluid plasma) directional negative force generating system. Remember, these are our terms. The entire craft can be a super conductor or a super capacitor depending on how the propulsion system is configured. Like I said, the system is extremely complicated. Unless you understand the entire system, which we don't, you won't understand what I am saying. The electrical system works on a vacuum vacated energy principle. This system generates an unlimited amount of power. The Visitors have determined that hydrogen has many more isotopes than we thought. H5 is one isotopes they harnessed and use as a catalyst inside the power device.”

What is a negative force generating system?

This was something proposed a long time ago by engineer Leonard G. Cramp in trying to explain flying saucer propulsion when he alluded to the bi-field theory, the G field and the R field. He says, “Of the G field-propelled craft discussed earlier (the use of an artificially created gravitational field), we could say that it was gravitationally moved towards its point source, or, due to a decreased gravitational field strength above it, it is repelled by the ‘denser’ space beneath, and either could be equally true…of the R-field (Repulsion Field) vehicle, we might say that was repulsively moved away from its point source or, due to the increased gravitational field strength below it, it is attracted to the less ‘dense’ space above, and either could be true..” Leonard goes on to propose that both G-field and R-field, one convertible into the other are in use in UFOs.

Paul Hill, retired and now deceased NASA scientist in his excellent technical analysis of UFOs in his book Unconventional Flying Objects considers that the UFO generates a repulsive field. He says, “it is shown that the UFO field is not of the static-electric or static-magnetic type. Rather, it appears to be a quasi-static field of a negative-gravity type. This is concluded because the data shows that the UFO field repels all mass, not just electrically charged or magnetic materials.”

He also mentions, like Cramp, before him that the field must have some degree of field focusing, that it goes out predominantly in one direction in order to give control.

These ideas now invoke a new idea in the field of cosmology termed dark energy. Dark energy is thought to be smoothly distributed throughout the universe. Dark energy has a strong negative pressure of the same order as its energy density. Dark energy interacts only through gravity. Dark energy produces a repulsive force and drives the expansion of the universe.

The point to be made here is that the extraterrestrial starship engineers have harnessed both gravitation and repulsion as a means of traveling through interplanetary and interstellar space. Perhaps they have even been able to artificially create a wormhole tunnel to distant parts of the galaxy through using their control of gravitation and dark energy.


Townsend Brown’s Electrogravitic Capacitors:

Strange as it seems it was during the 1950s that various aircraft companies started research projects on the control of gravity and electro-gravitational propulsion. It is possible that these projects constituted some of the first reverse engineering projects on extraterrestrial propulsion systems.

American physicist and inventor, T. Townsend Brown discovered an effect of highly charged disk-shaped capacitors. When the capacitors were charged in excess of 50 KV, they would have a tendency to accelerate in the direction of the positive pole. Suspending a number of these disk capacitors from a freely rotating carousel would cause, when charged, the entire assembly to rotate. These charged capacitors could also levitate.

According to the Air Force Manual from Wright-Patterson AFB on Electrogravitics we have this description on the Thomas Townsend Brown discovery.

Electrogravitics might be described as a synthesis of electrostatic energy used for propulsion - either vertical propulsion or horizontal or both - and gravitics, or dynamic counterbary, in which energy is also used to set up a local gravitational force independent of the earth’s.

Electrostatic energy for propulsion has been predicted as a possible means of propulsion in space when the thrust from a neutron motor or ion motor would be sufficient in a dragless environment to produce astronomical velocities. But the ion motor is not strictly a part of the science of electrogravitics, since barycentric control in an electrogravitics system is envisaged for a vehicle operating within the earth’s environment and it is not seen initially for space application. Probably large scale space operations would have to await the full development of electrogravitics to enable large pieces of equipment to be moved out of the region of the earth’s strongest gravity effects. So, though electrostatic motors were thought of in 1925, electrogravitics had its birth after the War, when Townsend Brown sought to improve on the various proposals that then existed for electrostatic motors sufficiently to produce some visible manifestation of sustained motion. Whereas earlier electrostatic tests were essentially pure research, Brown’s rigs were aimed from the outset at producing a flying article. As a private venture he produced evidence of motion using condensers in a couple of saucers suspended by arms rotating round a central tower with input running down the arms. The massive-k situation was summarized subsequently in a report, Project Winterhaven, in 1952. Using the data some conclusions were arrived at that might be expected from ten or more years of intensive development - similar to that, for instance, applied to the turbine engine. Using a number of assumptions as to the nature of gravity, the report postulated a saucer as the basis of a possible interceptor with Mach 3 capability. Creation of a local gravitational system would confer upon the fighter the sharp-edged changes of direction typical of motion in space.

The essence of electrogravitics thrust is the use of a very strong positive charge on one side of the vehicle and a negative on the other. The core of the motor is a condenser and the ability of the condenser to hold its charge (the k-number) is the yardstick of performance. With air as 1, current dielectrical materials can yield 6 and use of barium aluminate can raise this considerably, barium titanium oxide (a baked ceramic) can offer 6,000 and there is promise of 30,000, which would be sufficient for supersonic speed.

The original Brown rig produced 30 fps on a voltage of around 50,000 and a small amount of current in the milliamp range. There was no detailed explanation of gravity in Project Winterhaven, but it was assumed that particle dualism in the subatomic structure of gravity would coincide in its effect with the issuing stream of electrons from the electrostatic energy source to produce counterbary. The Brown work probably remains a realistic approach to the practical realization of electrostatic propulsion and sustentation. Whatever may be discovered by the Gravity Research Foundation of New Boston a complete understanding and synthetic reproduction of gravity is not essential for limited success. The electrogravitics saucer can perform the function of a classic lifting surface - it produces a pushing effect on the under surface and a suction effect on the upper, but, unlike the airfoil, it does not require a flow of air to produce the effect.


http://www.astrosciences.info/NegativeGrav.htm
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby Brigit Bara » Wed Jan 14, 2009 8:21 pm

arc-us posted:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4exO4Cu ... re=channel

It's interesting how the mist arranges itself and causes the droplets to grow. They want to divide. I guess they do not have enough surface tension, but don't the drops look like they are trying to form a pair? Thanks for posting it, very fun.
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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby mharratsc » Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:56 am

What I found interesting is that the water droplets formed "on a rope" and beaded at particular intervals (read frequency). The droplets at the top (closest to the point of matter introduction) began a process of division...

... doesn't that sound like Plasma Cosmology talk?? Stars being z-pinched on a Birkland current as it goes along, and a star 'fissioning' or popping off some of it's matter?

I haven't read it before and I'm not a 'cosmologist' by any means, but it sounds like the frequency of the current plasma twist is what determines where the matter forms up into it's spheres. If we can determine the frequency of the current (as we can measure it) and determine where the currents are flowing, we might actually be able to 'predict' where new stars or galaxies might form.

Umm... I suppose if we live that long. o.O

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Re: Recovered: Plasma cavitation?

Unread postby TOROID » Wed Mar 18, 2009 2:24 am

Could an electrical torus be found at the suns centre as in the case at the galactic centre?

If so maybe it revolves once every 22 years giving the sun its 22 year cycle and magnetic pole flip.

It could also have a region of cavitation around it. How rarefied does the plasma have to be before we can call it a cavity? Just a region of "relatively" much less density?

Just a wild stab in the dark from someone who's brain won't go to sleep!!! :roll:

What stimulated this idea was a picture of the torus at the galactic centre which the black hole brigade call an accretion disc. This reminded me that these same brigade members think that a black hole resides not just at galactic centres but also stellar centres or indeed any centre of mass.
So why not apply the same torus "idea" to a solar mass centre?
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